How would you feel if you had to pay....

[erigais]

How would you feel, if you had to pay $20-30 USD for a license to use Kubuntu(or your favorite distro).
Would it really be a bad thing? The people working on it can make a living and we get a great distro because
they people working on it could do that exclusively.
Dont get me wrong, i love the fact that its free, but would even a small price to pay be absolutely out of the
question? One of the big beefs i have with MS is the fact that a windows license is SO expensive and on top of that, they make even more money from their 3rd party partners. A copy of windows(especially a newer version) can easily set someone
back $100+ USD. I definitely see the benefits of having users help fund the company, but i can also see how it could hurt the community efforts. This is all just theory talk, and i was curious what others thought on this.

Personally, my stance: i'm a selfish bastard, i want it free(as well as everything else), but if it was backwards world and i had to pay, i dont think i would be too upset over a $20-30 dollar price tag, definately would be my choice over a $100-200 windows resource hog. of course, buying a manufactured computer with it pre-installed could also == free.

[dibl]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

I donate voluntarily to Canonical, and also to the aptosid team.

While I would consider a $30 license to be a great deal, and setting aside the idealogical firestorm that such a change would generated (this crowd could barely tolerate the migration from KDE 3.5 to KDE 4!), there's nothing in place to enforce a license. And there are hardly resources to pursue piracy lawsuits, either.

My 2 cents' worth (and a bargain, I'm sure).

[woodsmoke]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

Hi erigais

Very nice post. I donate myself to a varity of open source projects.

So, since you did such a nice post i will play bad cop to your good cop.

It is the general "consensus of opinion" that: people who don't donate are:

a) in such a financial situation that they can't, and we have all been there....
b) cheap, tightwad bas@#$%^ that talk a big talk and are just cheap tightwad bas@#$%^.
c) people who have heard, and either accept or fervently believe in, the oft quoted saying that "all information should be free".

Nothing can be done about the cheap, tightwad bast!@#$.

But some comment might be made about "all information should be free"

That comment is a very nice thing to put in one's sig, or avatar. It sounds very good, it has "cache" in the Linux community.

There have been tens of thousands of fawning, respectful, contentious, ARGUMENTATIVE posts about "free software".....and YES i KNOW free software and free beer....but....

But......there is a SUBTLE but overlooked difference in the two statements.

One is "software" and the other is "information".

I think that this rather pithy essay from 2008 kind of puts things into ONE perspective, not necessarily the "other" perspective. If anyone has an opposing essay to post I think most folks would find it constructive.

http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/481/it-should-be-free

Thanks again for starting such a nice thread erigals.

woodsmoke

[dibl]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/481/it-should-be-free

Nice one, Woody -- it is now bookmarked! Thank you.

[claydoh]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

It's been done before. But mostly this was before the relative ubiquity of broadband connections. What you were paying for was a boxed media with a manual, and for higher prices, either more software on disk, or a support package. Mandrake, Suse, etc did this and even had boxes on store shelves. My last distro (oh so long ago now), Lycoris, got more than a few dollars from me

Nowdays, payment can take many forms. Some distros live mostly on donations, while others have some sort of backing. All of them have developers who get 'paid' in the form of accomplishment (resume items if you will) while some people 'pay' for their distro by supplying artwork, and others by moderating a support forum and a mailing list, and being an OP in related irc channels

[erigais]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/481/it-should-be-free

woodsmoke

VERY interesting and insightful read. ty for the link

[ardvark71]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

How would you feel, if you had to pay $20-30 USD for a license to use Kubuntu(or your favorite distro).

Hi...

I'm sorry but no, I wouldn't pay for a license to use Kubuntu or any software that is released strictly under the GPL, unless I absolutely needed it.

Regards...

[jpenguin]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

While I would like to see kubunt box sets for sale at my local office-supply stores and the big chain stores (OffoceMax, OfficeDepot, Staples, BestBuy) I think you should always be able to download and use kubuntu for free

[oshunluvr]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

I chip in to distros I use regularly. Additionally, I buy software that I use (and sometimes don't use) if it's developed for the linux desktop - especially games.

I would be afraid if you charged for the distro, some of the developers would leave on principle.

In a Utopian world, those that can would, and those that can't wouldn't have too.

[GreyGeek]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

.....
I'm sorry but no, I wouldn't pay for a license to use Kubuntu or any software that is released strictly under the GPL, unless I absolutely needed it.
.....

But you'll pay money for a proprietary binary that you only "license", can never own, nor change or have changed to suit your needs if it isn't exactly what you want or absolutely needed?

What is the reasoning behind that?

[ardvark71]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

But you'll pay money for a proprietary binary that you only "license", can never own, nor change or have changed to suit your needs if it isn't exactly what you want or absolutely needed?

What is the reasoning behind that?

Hi GreyGeek...

Probably not a very good one.

I just simply want Linux and open source software (not including support) to remain free in terms of ownership rights as well as one's pocketbook. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wants to make a living and profit by what they produce but at the same time, it is nice to be able to have access to an OS and needed software without having to pay out $200.00 here and $50.00 there. There are a lot of folks (including myself) out there that simply cannot afford a copy of Windows (fill in the version here) when a install or reinstall is needed. I've already installed Linux for two different people because of this. Restore CD's and partitions are not always available.

It's not that I'm willing to pay for proprietary software just because its proprietary, I'm not. Proprietary software is not always better than open source software although I see advantages (and disadvantages) to both. Because of my budget, if I can get software for Windows that's free (such as free AV's and other security software,) that's the route I take, even though most paid versions are better and/or offer more features.

Regards...

[GreyGeek]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

...
I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wants to make a living and profit by what they produce but at the same time, it is nice to be able to have access to an OS and needed software without having to pay out $200.00 here and $50.00 there. There are a lot of folks (including myself) out there that simply cannot afford a copy of Windows (fill in the version here) when a install or reinstall is needed. I've already installed Linux for two different people because of this. Restore CD's and partitions are not always available.
....

I can appreciate your concern about cost. I am retired, and at 70 years of age I do not have or want a part or full time job, and with SS and an annuity I am on a fixed income.

That said, while there is nothing that prevents someone from charging for a distro, the fact that most of it is under the GPL would preclude someone from obtaining an artificial scarcity lock on it and thus create a regular income stream via the upgrade treadmill, like Microsoft and Apple do. This is why Mandriva, SUSE and other distros which charge for the main product never grew to the point of economic viability. Even though they had a paid development staff and produced an excellent product their distro's future was short circuited by free versions and forks. Using a standard GPL'd distro and hooking proprietary binaries of the good stuff (multimedia, graphics, wp, edu, etc..) via hooks in special libraries didn't help XANDROS and others. As good as Ubuntu is, Mark Shuttlesworth knows that he could not move it to Mandriva's model and generate a viable revenue stream. He focuses on the same model that RH uses and Mandriva moved to, albeit too late, ... paid support. The trinket store model never worked, either. T-shirts, mugs and toy penguins don't generate enough revenue.

IN FACT, even this forum hasn't been able to generate enough money through voluntary donations to be self-supporting. The majority of those who pay the most seem unwilling to donate enough even to keep a server and forum software up for a single year, despite the fact that EVERYONE who moderates or helps users with problems are doing so gratis.

The problem is short sightedness by those who benefit the most from GPL software. Users and businesses. A few years ago RedHat thought they could focus their business model on just the server and ignore the desktop, so they abandon it. Within a few years they found out that the desktop they dragged along into their server business (not everyone likes or appreciates admin through consoles only) began to lag behind. Fedora saved their bacon. OpenSUSE kept SUSE alive because FOSS coders contributions to openSUSE were carried into SUSE SELS. The WYSIWYG web page designer, Quanta Plus was an excellent tool. It began to take so much of Eric Lafoon's time and money away from his primary business, he decided to take it proprietary as Quanta Gold, sold by "theKompany" for $39.95, so that at least it would be self supporting. He said the release of the commercial version spiked considerable interest in the GPL version -- the old "something valuable for free" syndrome. He discovered, and collected service & invoice statistics to prove, that LESS than 3% of users were willing to pay for Quanta Plus, regardless of how good it was, and how affordable it was. I don't know how Quanta Gold is doing, but I suspect not much better. Other developers of commercial Linux software have found the same percentages to be accurate. 3%.

Eventually Lafoon gave up and abandon the idea, leaving Quanta Plus with "plans" to upgrade to KDE3 (!!!), as the SourceForge site relates. I don't know who is supporting Quanta Plus now. The last I heard Eric had returned to his cat business. Quanta Plus IS in the repository and installable on KDE4 desktops, but active development and improvements are not being made, to the best of my knowledge. I have never met a single Linux user who is using Quanta Gold.

A lot of people associate Linux and the GPL with socialism, but it is not any closer to that political model than it is to capitalism, because no one is forcing users to use it. However, like Socialism, as long as it is developed using other peoples efforts, time and money users are OK with it. Even though KDE 4.4.X and Linux is equal to and even better than Windows and users truly OWN the source, not just license it, users seem unwilling to pay even a fraction of the cost for them as they pay for Windows, even though as Windows users they ALSO have, in addition, to pay for a lot of EXPENSIVE software which makes Windows actually useful.

So, what's the future for FOSS like? The same. People on fixed incomes, who see and understand the need, will budget to contribute something; time, money, what ever. People making enough money to have a disposable income and also see the need and want to help will continue doing so, or begin to do so. The number of people who are not retired, have no fixed income and have lost their jobs and/or can only find work as "associates" at Walmart, McDonalds or other similar places of employment, and live paycheck to paycheck, and visit food banks so they won't starve, but need a computer to job hunt because an internet connection and a computer are NOT a luxury any more, but a necessity ... those people benefit the most from the GPL, Linux, KDE4 and all the GPL software. No one would expect them to pitch some coins into community pool, even if they had time to donate their other talents.

Three percent isn't much, but apparently it has been enough, even if barely, for a long time. And, every once in a while, a individual comes along who steps up to the plate and delivers a home run... someone like "OpenSource", who has supported this forum out of his own pocket for five years, through some of the toughest economic times this country has ever seen. But, the ISP host is running this website on Windows and it is using SMF. The combination has resulted in down times that are all too frequent, giving rise to complaints from the users. Yet, when calls for donations go out to make this site self-supporting (i.e., user supported), out of the hundreds of users we can't get enough donations to pay for a single year?

So, not only does FOSS get a short stick from its users, everything associated with FOSS gets the same treatment. Are we all that poor, or just that stingy?

[oshunluvr]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

Human nature takes over...

The funny thing is, many of these same people will pay $150 to Microslop for that mess on an OS. Make no sense to me.

I swear if you set up a computer shop, sold PC's side-by-side with either 7 or Kubuntu and charged $200 more for the Win7 models - they'd still sell faster and you'd make a mint.

[PhilT]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

+1 GG. I'm also retired and on fixed income - but can still afford to donate to various organisations. I started my Linux usage with Mandrake (as it was) about 8 years ago and was happy to pay an annual subscription of 30 Euros a year to support. I only came to Kubuntu when Mandriva (as it became) did an upgrade that trashed my system and I couldn't retrieve it. So, I blitzed and tried Kubuntu (Breezy Badger) - been here since.

I think all satisfied users should donate from time to time. It seems to me to be a matter of decency and honour, and in the spirit of sharing which is THE FOSS ethic, in my book! Otherwise, it's a bit like stealing others' hard work, it seems to me.

Just my two-pennyworth!

[bsniadajewski]

Re: How would you feel if you had to pay....

I probably would if I only had dial-up or a very slow, say ~200kbps, connection to start with. When I started to really dig into Linux back in '05, I bought a box of SuSE 9.3 Professional (1 dual-layer DVD, 5 CD) fron a Best Buy near Wausau. Now, I was able to really go crazy with trying all the DE's, WMs, applications, etc. to my hearts content.
If a distro were to sell a license, it should be in a brick & mortar store like BB and have included a LiveCD and an install DVD like that available at the Kubuntu dl site.