Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

[dibl]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the real mess with the US household started under the previous administration (what was it, the deficit was more than quadrupled?). The current one was lumbered with a record deficit by a mile, an impossible economy and then came the financial crisis to boot.

You are not wrong, toad. The Bush administration, with a pretty docile Congress following along, instituted Medicare Part 6 which was not paid for in the succeeding budgets, and then a reduction of the income tax that was also not balanced by spending reductions. So the golf ball was teed up during that timeframe, and the housing crisis in 2008, generating a "need" for government intervention, just knocked it on its way. But, as I mentioned above, all of that was merely a preceeding introduction to the main show which has been 60 years in the making.

[kjjjjshab]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

Woodsmoke, your entire argument against the WRS would then have to be made against anyone that saves for their retirement with their own wages. It's just all money... there is nothing special about the WRS. It is not like SS where it has been stuffed with IOU's the past few decades.

If the WRS was gone tomorrow and a teacher saved 15% of their wages a year and put it all into Intel stock and then retired on that, would you really still complain that taxes paid for their retirement? If teacher lives to be 90, well guess what, another teacher died at age 60 to make up for it.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

.....
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the real mess with the US household started under the previous administration...

Not exactly, Toad. The financial mess was started under Pres Carter when ACORN, agitating for "social justice" and "economic justice" and guided by Obama, who was their lawyer at the time, along with help from members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and Democrat majorities, passed the Community Restoration Act, which gave birth to the NINJA housing loans, loans to applicants who had No Income, No Job and no Assets. Bush and McCain tried twice to warn Congress of problems with C.R.A., as I pointed out and linked to CSPAN videos in a previous post, but they were rebuffed when the race card was used against them.

However, as far as the Bill of Rights is concerned, Pres Bush is, IMO, responsible for the greatest sustained erosion of the Bill of Rights that has occurred since they were written. They were attacked previously with the RICO Act, which is a subject for another time. The primary weapons for current erosion has been the PATRIOT Act and the formation of the TSA and FEMA. I was disappointed that Pres Obama extended that act and the powers of the TSA and FEMA. The EFF summarizes some of the problem they found here.

The PA directly nullifies parts of the 1st (freedom of speech & press - you can't tell anyone you've been charged under the PA and media can't write about what they learn), 4th (secure in person and papers), 5th (double jeopardy and confiscation of property), 6th (speedy trial, face your accuser and see the evidence against you), 8th (excessive bail, fines and unusual punishments), 9th (loss of rights not enumerated) 10th (usurpation of rights not granted to the gov).

[woodsmoke]

Curious thing on lab trip to forest.

kjjjshab.

EXACTLY!!!! You have got it! That is the point behind what is happening.

And, it just so happened that I was typing my reply between lab sections when the lab assistant came in to take a breather and saw part of the post on the overhead projector.

When we were at the forest, and campus lawn, and everybody's rear was stuck high in the air... not a good sight!, with their little eyes and hands in the grass counting grass stems, it is an environmental science class.. she said...

"Ummmm Mr. Woodsmoke, that thing you were posting."

"Yes."

"Well in sociology today we were discussing that..."

"Yes."

"The teacher had us discussing it last class period and the class had basically gotten itself into two groups one saying that teachers/police/old folks/any folks were losing their rights.... and the other side was "how are we going to pay for it." And nobody was going to acknowledge anybody else's point".

"Ok."

"Well, let me show you what we worked on today when we get back, it was in the book."

Woodsmoke interjection here.....the teacher ASSUMED that nobody would read ahead and they didn't!

To continue:

I quote, from a photocopy of the text, and the italics are in the text.

The huge costs of Social Security and Medicare are a special concern. One of every three tax dollars (35 percent) is spent on these two programs( Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 455). As fig. 13.8 shows, Social Security payments were $781 million in 1950; now they run 750 times higher.

The text went on into how because spending money on a group that had lobbiests the number of children "in poverty" had remained relatively constant.

And the fig 13.8 had a graph of social security and medicare as basically a 45 degree straightline graph with the projection continuing to go up at the same rate until 2020 from 2010.

BACK TO THE LAB ASSISTANT.....

She said something to the effect of:

"THAT shut up about everybody... the people wanting more money had that number 750 times higher and that it would add another 350 times higher in just ten years..... and the people wanting to cut stuff realizing that nothing had been done for the people who couldn't speak for themselves(the kids)."

"Everybody just kind of sat there and the teacher finally said: "I'm going to get a soda while you guys visit."

"And then left for a while which forced us to start thinking instead of shouting."

BACK TO WOODSMOKE:

What is happening on a national level with "retirement" is happening "in small" across the country.

And the problem is....how to deal with it.

But...again.... kjjjshab....YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!

woodsmoke

[woodsmoke]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

GG

BRAVO!!!

However, as far as the Bill of Rights is concerned, Pres Bush is, IMO, responsible for the greatest sustained erosion of the Bill of Rights that has occurred since they were written.

And of course Pres. Obama has extended it and is now wanting to use it for OTHER stuff!

But to moi, the REALLY galling part is that Bush STARTED IT!! Supposedly he should have been FOREsquare against it! >

woodsmoke

[kjjjjshab]

Re: Curious thing on lab trip to forest.

kjjjshab.
EXACTLY!!!! You have got it! That is the point behind what is happening.
...
woodsmoke

Yes, and I am just asking that you not compare the WRS to SS since they are entirely different in how they are funded. What is happening in WI is a separate issue from the federal gov.

[buckeyered80]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

To me it seems that it doesn't matter who gets elected, they all seem to do similar things. And whether or not you have a Democratic or Republican congress doesn't seem to matter any more. Notice how even though so many people are without jobs, you are seeing articles about corporations making "record" gains and profits. Is it possible that our ruling heads are all paid off? They will make decisions that will line their pockets and the corporations they serve. The little man and small business has little chance of survival anymore. I know this might seem a little conspiracy minded or a little too harsh, but nevertheless it's my observation.

[woodsmoke]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

I can't find the guy on the net, but some famous business guy said he couldn't start his business today.

woodsmoke

[blobfish]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

I really believe that our current economic situation is the culmination of 30 years of supply side economics aka trickle down, voodoo. Most new wealth has gone straight to the top meanwhile a systematic exportation of good paying jobs has killed the demand side of the equation. I predict a double dip recession comming. The government will eventually have to stop spending and watch out?

[buckeyered80]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

Is that already starting? The 38 billion budget cut deal looks like it's going to pass.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

To me it seems that it doesn't matter who gets elected, they all seem to do similar things. And whether or not you have a Democratic or Republican congress doesn't seem to matter any more. Notice how even though so many people are without jobs, you are seeing articles about corporations making "record" gains and profits. Is it possible that our ruling heads are all paid off? They will make decisions that will line their pockets and the corporations they serve. The little man and small business has little chance of survival anymore. I know this might seem a little conspiracy minded or a little too harsh, but nevertheless it's my observation.

A LOT of Americans are beginning to see what you've stated: it doesn't appear to make any difference if a Dem or a Rep gets elected, the status quo continues as always, AND, corporations (few of which have major manufacturing facilities in the US any more) control the gov agencies which were created to regulate them -- the old revolving door of management problem.

Therefore, the basic solutions are:
1) Remove "personhood" from corporations and outlaw any form of lobbying. Corporations are NOT corpus, i.e., REAL people, and SHOULD NOT have a say in the government of the people, by the people and for THE PEOPLE. Corporations caught bribing politicians should have their papers revoked and their assets sold off. They represent too great a danger to the freedoms of the people.

2) Limit politicians to two terms, and their salaries to a maximum of 4X the national average income. Their only choices for Social Security or health insurance are limited to what everyone else can have, with no special treatment. No retirement income from public service for elected officials aside from 401Ks or other retirement vehicles they purchase with their own money.

3) Fed or state agencies created with a mandate to regulate industries cannot hire as managers any person who has managed or worked for those industries, and fed agency managers cannot work work as a manager for any corporate entity for 10 years following their leave.

4) Outlaw professional welfare recipients. It is certainly not an inherited right. People who are on welfare will do 30 hours of community service while they are receiving it and do 10 hours of job hunting.

5) Using babies as a lock gto recieve ADC or similar benefits, or coming across the border to have anchor-babies should be outlawed. No one has a right to copulate when ever or how often they please and expect the taxpayers to pick up the tab for the kids, the abortions, ADC or STDs. Not everyone who can copulate makes good parents. We require drivers licenses and liability insurance, but any 15 year old bimbo or stud thinks it is their right to breed kids THEY can't adequately support. Babies born to children under the age of majority become the responsibility of parents of the mother and father. Before any couple can have children they must pass parental training courses and demonstrate financial accountability.

6) Terminate ALL immigration into this country, regardless of where they are coming from or why they are coming. If they don't like their home country it is up to them to change it, not us.
Expel everyone who is not a citizen

7) Bring home ALL troops from ALL countries around the globe. We've "policed" the world long enough, and we are tired of being called "invaders" when we liberate them. We've been paying for their defense and funding Marshal Plans long enough. It's like having a boarder who live in your house free of charge, uses your electricity, water and heat, and then competes against you in the market place. Our troops can be used to protect our borders and bring an end to illegal immigrants.

8) Confiscate all lands owned by foreigners and convert it to public properties. Honor our treaties with our own Indians and restore them to their rightful lands in the Blackhills and surrounding areas.

There's more I can think of but a lightening bolt just struck outside...

[GreyGeek]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

Is that already starting? The 38 billion budget cut deal looks like it's going to pass.

A drop in the bucket. 38 Billion when we are 3,000 billion in debt?

[woodsmoke]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

I heard a thing that if you took too reams of paper and stacked them atop each other that is about the thickness of a thousand dollars.

If you had a stack 4,600 miles high that would be about the debt, etc.

The "reduction" they made is about 18 feet of that.

woodsmoke

[Detonate]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

The problem with implementing GreyGeek's suggestions is, that the people that are in a position to change the rules, are the very same people who have the most to gain by not changing the rules.

[kjjjjshab]

Re: Amid global meltdowns, what's the life of the U.S. government's fiscal solvency?

...
6) Terminate ALL immigration into this country, regardless of where they are coming from or why they are coming. If they don't like their home country it is up to them to change it, not us.
Expel everyone who is not a citizen
...

Good thing Linus was just naturalized! 8)