Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

[dibl]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

I worked for the U.S. Government for 12 years, and was quite the student of the bureaucracy. What oshunluvr says is true. The first rule of every bureaucracy is: "Protect the bureaucracy, above all else."

I was working there during the late 1970s, in the Carter administration, when the U.S. Air Force was ordered to reduce the size of its major commands. In Logistics Command, they put new signs over about 30% of the doors, that read "Air Force Logistics Operations Center", and declared that Logistics Command had been reorganized and shrunk by 30% (I'm making up the percent figure, but the description of the behavior is accurate).

I'd be for a conversion of individual taxes from earnings-based to a VAT. At least it would be (arguably) voluntary, and based on purchase decisions, not earnings, thus encouraging individual savings. Income-based tax is probably the right method for corporations, but they really need to go through the loophole list with a fine-tooth comb.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

...
With an efficient application of technology, at least 50% of this bloat could just go away -...

You must be reading my mind!

With modern communication technology we should be able to set up a "virtual" Congress and Senate. The elected members would "office" out of their home with equipment supplied and maintained by a new branch of the Secret Service. There they could be observed 24/7 by their electorate and those who come and go would be visible to all and could be researched for their special interest connections. Multiple 3D display screens and look-a-like avatars would be the rep in the "second-life"-like environment. Only the elected official can log in to active his/her avatar and if he leaves the office his avatar slumps over to indicate such. Etc, etc, etc. When the rep is voted out the equipment is removed and passwords and Ids changed. The data he/she generated was always stored on gov servers under strict security. Oh, Windows would not be allowed on any government equipment for security reasons.

"Junkets" would be virtual trips as well. Private communications between avatars (i.e. reps) would also be recorded, even if they aren't made public. A rep would NOT be allowed to erase any documents or recordings. Communications to other reps outside of Virtual Congress would be proof of treason, with appropriate punishments.

Consolidating political boundaries within a state would be a good idea, IMO. In my experience at the Dept of Revenue for the state of Nebraska, county government agencies depends entirely on the state government agencies. It didn't matter who was elected at the local level. They all have to work with the employees at the gov agencies. What the state gov agency employees do is determined ENTIRELY by laws passed by the State Unicameral. The supervisors at the state level are restricted by the same laws. They have leeway as to how the requirements of the laws are fulfilled. They can chose Linux over Windows or, like our current gov, make the state a Windows only shop, costing the state millions in the process and increasing significantly the security and down-time of the data environment, even though he campaigned on "increasing efficiency and reducing operating expenses" of the state's data processing. So much of small town government is just as corrupt as big city and state government it would be a step toward reducing corruption by eliminating the unnecessary county and local governments, and just hire workers to do what the state laws demand anyway. (I was also the deputy town marshal where I taught at HS and I learned there are people who think they can ignore laws because they are friends with a "justice of the peace" at the county seat and any tickets they get are canceled by their friends in higher places. I gave them tickets anyway because they had to drive to the county seat and get the ticket canceled personally. Their flagrant violations ceased when I told them the next time they did it I would be hauling them to jail at the county seat and they'd have to set there till morning. They knew I would do it.)

[GreyGeek]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

.....
I'd be for a conversion of individual taxes from earnings-based to a VAT. At least it would be (arguably) voluntary, and based on purchase decisions, not earnings, thus encouraging individual savings. Income-based tax is probably the right method for corporations, but they really need to go through the loophole list with a fine-tooth comb.

Lesson #1: Regardless the rate you tax corporate earnings, corporations DO NOT pay taxes. Period. That should be obvious to anyone who has a brain or has run a business. The corporation I formed to operate my computer consulting business did not. IF the politicians decided that I should pay a software developer tax my next business action would have been to raise my rates so that my net income remained the same. The effect of taxing me would have been to tax my clients, the consumers. A tax on me or my corporation would be nothing less than a HIDDEN tax on my clients, the consumers. Corporations are merely collectors of hidden taxes, just the way they are collectors of FICA and other government social welfare charges. The employee/consumer ends up paying ALL taxes, regardless of their name or purpose.

Taxes don't "Add Value", so "Value Added Tax" is, IMO, a misnomer.

I don't mind taxes, they fuel the infrastructure of our society, as long as that is what they are spent on. I am against ALL forms of hidden taxes and tax expenditures which some call "entitlements". Social security is not an entitlement if you've paid into it for 50 years. But, if it weren't for the extra income from our own investments my wife and I would be in sad financial shape.

While I don't believe in taxing someone just because they are rich, there are some things only rich people can afford, and it is, IMO, proper to tax those items appropriately. If a tax is added to any common retail item it should not matter who buys it, the tax should be the same. But, food, rent, medicine, medical care, hospital care, work clothes, work shoes, (i.e., inexpensive items) should never be taxed and the sum of all taxes on common retail items should never exceed 1%.

No payroll taxes should be deducted and employer/employee investment programs should be set up instead of social security, which politicians plunder for their political agendas. Employers should be required to truly invest their share in those retirement fund, and not fail to do so, on pain of imprisonment of the owners/board members, managers and accountants of that company.

Consumption taxes for electricity, gas, fuel oil, etc..., except for renewable energies like wind or solar.

Road construction and repairs costs are assessed based on the odometer reading, number of wheels, and weight of vehicle, computed and paid when you renew your annual auto license tag. Unicycles pay the least

In other words, what ever we have to do to eliminate hidden taxes and entitlements (negative taxes).




Add a sliding tax to luxury items based on personal income? Nonsense. Too much government interference and it would require a gov database of everyone's income that vendors could access.

[dibl]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

Regardless the rate you tax corporate earnings, corporations DO NOT pay taxes. Period.

We can be in a state of respectful disagreement on that point. Corporations do pay taxes, as a matter of fact. However, the stupid "social engineering" tax laws passed by Congress provide all kinds of inducements to invest in this and that, and thereby to avoid taxes. It is not the fault of corporations that they take advantage of the loopholes provided by Congress -- it is the fault of Congress for diddling the tax laws. They could make it clear and simple if they wanted to.

[claydoh]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

As a former Federal employee I can say with first hand experience that federal bureaucracies never reduce in size. I was employed during two "reductions" in the workforce. Both times, the people who's jobs were eliminated simply had new "needed" jobs created for them and then changed offices (sometimes). The politicians and the people that work for them are best at protecting each other from the desires of the people rather than servicing the desires of the people. This is not the solo territory of the liberals or conservatives - anyone far enough from the center to label themselves one or the other has by definition removed themselves from mainstream society. Most of the positioning and so-called debate is really just obfuscation.

I agree for the need for greater individual States rights (not to be confused with Rights of The State). This was one of the primary goals of the framers and seen as a protection against federal tyranny.

Personally, I think income tax at the federal level needs to be abolished and replaced with a national sales tax. That way, tourists, illegals, and the ultra-rich all contribute to the system. You could still have refunds for the poor. Then we need to with eliminate deficit spending.

+1000000

[GreyGeek]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

Regardless the rate you tax corporate earnings, corporations DO NOT pay taxes. Period.

We can be in a state of respectful disagreement on that point. Corporations do pay taxes, as a matter of fact. However, the stupid "social engineering" tax laws passed by Congress provide all kinds of inducements to invest in this and that, and thereby to avoid taxes. It is not the fault of corporations that they take advantage of the loopholes provided by Congress -- it is the fault of Congress for diddling the tax laws. They could make it clear and simple if they wanted to.

Sure, they do "pay" taxes. Just the way I paid taxes in my business. But, it wasn't me who was "paying" the taxes. I passed the taxes on to my clients in the form of higher rates for my service. ALL businesses do this. They have to. They have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize the value of their stocks to benefit stock holders (not "stakeholders"). Those who do not pass their taxes on to their customers won't be able to compete with those who do because they won't have the money for ads, R&D, employee benefits, etc... , and if they are a publicly held company the value of the stocks will decline and the CEO will lose his/her job.

So, really, corporations are merely funnels. They pass hidden taxes taken from their customers/clients on to Uncle Sam. When corporations take advantage of tax loopholes and keep that money (which they usually do without lowering prices to that which those who do pay taxes have to charge) they have a competitive advantage and the CEO, board, and stock holders benefit. You and I don't because out wallets are lighter by the amount of the "corporate" taxes..

I agree with a move to a national sales tax. But, it will never happen because too many people have a vested interest in the status quo. Lawyers, CPA's and accountants want the tax laws to be complicated so that their services are in demand. Politicians want them to be complicated because the IRS can and is used against their political enemies when they gain national office. The IRS and its thousands of agents and employees want to GROW their agency, not reduce it. It's the same at both the national and state level. The bureaucrats main job is to keep their job. Agencies never die, they morph to other serve "other needs".

It's the same in the non-profit industry too. The "March of Dimes" is still begging for money, but not to treat polio.

[oshunluvr]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

You really don't have to cut back - just don't spend more. Eventually the income will rise and overtake the expenditure.

The problem really is debtor governments don't last forever. The reason we do it this way is because no one looks past their own nose at the ramifications of their actions.

[Qqmike]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%
http://www.vanityfair.com/society/fe...urrentPage=all

[dibl]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

The concentration of both wealth and income in such a small fraction of society is troubling indeed. We should, as a nation, (a) seek to identify the causal factors, and (b) have the debate and formulate whatever policies would seem to stop or (better yet) reverse the trend.

However, as with many economic issues, I see some "stinkin thinkin" creeping in, even in the Stiglitz article. For example, there's a strong implication that the wealthy took away the income from middle-class high school graduates. That's way too simplistic. First of all, the labor-intensive kinds of jobs that high school graduates were able to secure in prior decades are either gone from the face of the earth (replaced by robots) or gone overseas to workers who offer their labor for less cost. Either way they're gone from America -- so it's not as though you could take wealth away from the wealthy, and restore such jobs to Indiana. But that is what is implied -- you hear such baloney all the time. Part of the problem is the expectation, built up over several generations in the 20th century, that you can simply graduate from high school, go to work in your local factory putting screws in holes, and earn a comfortable middle class income sufficient to raise an Ozzie and Harriet family. Those days are gone, and there's nothing you can do to wealthy people that will bring them back. So I hope to hear a lot more enlightened debate about how to improve our society than simply pulling down the wealthy. That's how they improved Russia in 1917 and Cuba in 1959.

For example, if I were king, it would not be possible to incorporate in America without including an employee stock ownership plan, and then employees' shares would be non-transferable before the age of 60, except for debilitating/emergency change of circumstance. Policies like that might begin to "spread success", which I think would be a better approach than the most popular notions, which seem mostly to be of the "punish success" variety.

IMHO

[GreyGeek]

Re: Sometimes, doing the rights things doesn't help ...

I like your idea.

The alternative is for Americans to do nothing, let the status quo continue as it is. That will result in what remaining industrial and professional (read "high paying") jobs that are left moving over seas, leaving only minimum wage 37 hr/wk or less jobs with little or no health benefits. A single individual will have a hard time living on $15K-$20K per year, to say nothing of a family. Both adults in a family now work to "make ends meet", so they might be making $30K-$40K, but they'll need two cars, an expensive auto policy, child care, or coordination of their schedules so they can both use the one car, if that is all they have. They'll have no disposable income. The number of cars I see with duct tape covering broken windows, or damaged side panels (to keep water out) are increasing dramatically. They MUST have auto insurance (financial accountability law) but it is probably collision only and if they were at fault they have no money to repair their vehicle.

Forty years ago, the take-home pay from my first public school teaching job was $8,400, and I was the second highest paid teacher in the district. The Arab oil embargo hit and interest rates rose to 21%. Living out in the country about a mile from the Platte River I was able to use Deer, Pheasant, Bass and Catfish to supply meat to our diet, along with a vegetable garden. But, there twice as many people in this country compared to 40 years ago, and animal life is suffering from a variety of chemical and biological poisons and foreign pests, so I wouldn't recommend eating fish from our lakes and waters.

The whole situation is making our balance of payments go wacky and the Gov is printing money to make up because the Dollar is the World Reserve Currency. However, that status will probably be lost this year, which is why economists are predicting a rapid inflation rate later this year.

This affects the tax base because minimum wage workers are not a good source of taxes, so tax receipts are declining dramatically. This is preventing local and state governments from meeting basic infrastructure maintenance needs, so unfilled or poorly filled pot holes don't get filled and the number of vehicles with steering, wheel and suspension damage are increasing dramatically. Curbs, gutters and bridge ramparts are falling apart, and cracks in bridges and parking buildings are remaining unrepaired.

To make matters worse, economists are predicting that inflation will rise dramatically this year. If the cost of living rate reaches 10% it will mean that the cost of living will double every seven years. Folks who can barely get by now will find it impossible when prices double. My wife volunteers for FoodNet and the number of folks picking up food have doubled in the last year.


Quite frankly, America needs to repeal NAFTA, and bring their jobs back home. That is, rebuild our industrial manufacturing base and sell products made in this country to the people in this country. Tarrifs on products made in other countries should be taxed to level the playing field. NO country's job base can survive a flood of products made by slave labor working under tyrannical despots. Products made by minimum wage jobs cannot survive because $7/hr can not match $5/day. And, product should be made to last 70 or more years, not 7 years.

There are other things to do: outlaw campaign donations by any corporate or non-profit group and those made by individuals to $100 or less. Such donations have totally corrupted the election process and our politicians. Corporations convicted of violating the laws should have their board members and corporate officers serve jail time and the corporation be sold off to cover costs of prosecution and reparations. NO person should be allowed to serve in a Federal or state agency if they have worked for a corporation in the industry at any prior time. And, when they leave the agency they should not be allowed to work in that industry for at least 10 years. Revolving doors between corporate management and regulatory agency management HAS TO STOP!