Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

[IgnorantGuru]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

Very good points Telengard. Some Arch users are certainly friendly and helpful, and certainly knowledgeable, so in that sense the community is good to be a part of. But those controlling the distro and its forums do have an arrogant and unwelcoming way about them - I didn't care for it from the start. But mostly I minded my own business and didn't participate on the forum much. It's also a very small community compared to *buntu, and its growth is inhibited by the above attitudes and policies.

Gentoo does have its charms. Firefox just downloaded and compiled in 22 minutes - a lot of which was download due to my less-than-stellar bandwidth. So now I have Openbox with roxterm and firefox installed. So its getting functional now. Next I need to organize myself a bit, make a list of software and things to do, etc. The good news is since both Arch and Gentoo use vanilla software, most of my home folder should be directly movable - no need to reconfigure most of my software.

[toad]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

Just to put the picture straight - the Arch forum is tough and non-forgiving, agreed. Yet if you follow the rules, google, use the wiki and still don't arrive at an answer it is just about the most knowledgeable and informative forum I know. No cuddly, fuzzy warmth but top notch info of the highest quality.

I actually like that approach 'cos it really cuts the crap, the whiners, help vampires etc. It is a tight operation and doesn't make any qualms about it (i.e. the mods do tell you that that is the way the cookie crumbles, they don't just shoot someone down for no reason or without prior warning).

Ah, that's it (Christ, I don't want to come across as a fan-boy!)

[IgnorantGuru]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

Toad, you're just a fanboy!

I saw a bit more there - like moderators that have personal agendas. Take the discussion of the security problems I brought up. The conversation was moving and productive, but wasn't what they wanted to hear. So they deleted it. MUCH more came from the discussion once it was on my blog where people could continue the discussion freely (I know I learned a lot), and even call me names when they felt the need. I wouldn't describe the Arch moderation as merely down-to-business, but unprofessional and often downright censorship of viewpoints. Also, I find that it's better for people of different experience levels to have subforums where they can ask the same old questions again and again. Of course the veterans have heard them all answered many times before. But asking is valuable, and answering is as well (you teach what you have to learn). Yet on those forums even Newbie Corner doesn't permit this, which is why so many people give up on Arch - due to the forums rather than their inability to handle Arch. Arch really isn't that difficult. They just don't seem to know how to let a discussion follow its own course. I've lost count of how many times I went to add something to a thread there only to find it had been closed because they deemed it 'over'. And I don't find it cuts the crap at all, you just get crap wrapped in politeness and seriousness, or crap exclusively from those in the inner circle. I'd rather have a bit of mayhem - I think it's healthier, as is less moderation. Good leaders or moderators know when to leave things be a bit.

In short, I think the way they approach it is dysfunctional, not just down-to-business.

[toad]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

Fair play, we agree to differ. I like it, you don't.

Not sure whether you know forum.kde.org - there they hardly mod at all and it really gets out of hand at times. Same goes for the Debian forum where certain people (ancient fan-boys) appear to actively enjoy #&%$ting on people from great heights... An example for an over modded forum would be Aptosid, formerly know as Sidux. Here you cannot say squeak before they close the thread.

I suppose it is up to each and every one to find their place in this paradigm of censorship. Funny though how we all get stuck here

[IgnorantGuru]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

I suppose it is up to each and every one to find their place in this paradigm of censorship. Funny though how we all get stuck here

This is one of my favorite forums in terms of the posters being cool. And as such it doesn't attract overly-active moderators - they would simply be too bored here and wouldn't get their power fix. Of course this is a smaller forum, but Arch is too. If they let Arch be a little more free it would be fun as well as productive, but they don't see the value of that. Arch reminds me of a strict corporate environment, which makes sense because most of the devs live in that world. I don't. They even approach their OSS development from that angle, which is why it is so dysfunctional (they can't motivate themselves to be miserable because they're not getting paid, and they view development as mandatory misery).

Mostly I prefer chaos on forums, in terms of everyone expressing themselves their own way, so that's probably why we differ. (You're not a fanboy, don't worry!)

[dibl]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

Since we're OT ....

You can definitely see a difference between user forums, such as this one, and forums hosted and moderated by the developers, such as aptosid or arch. Unless we offend Open Source, or Al Krieger or Snowhog or someone, there's no basis for hostility here. It's not possible to waste the time of Kubuntu developers by asking silly questions here for the 1,000th time, for example. Nor do Kubuntu developers care if we spend all day posting wrong information here. It makes sense when you think about it -- if the development team for a distribution are going to devote time and energy to directly support the users, then the tolerance for BS on the forum has to go way down to keep it reasonably efficient.

IMHO.

[MoonRise]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

Don't know what it is worth but there is also DreamLinux. I've used it from time to time and never have been disappointed and it has been fairly stable. Used only the XFCE version and I've never seen a KDE based build but all in all I've enjoyed it. Just a thought.

[Telengard]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

I think Slack will be my next experiment. It has many devoted users, which says a lot. Interesting discussion here.

I think this thread will give you a pretty good idea of what the Slackware experience can be like for a newbie. The answers are mostly from long time users.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...stions-865892/

[GreyGeek]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

....
Haven't heard of Aptosid before - thanks I'll check that out.
...

Hi I-G, welcome back!

Some of the guys around the forum have mentioned Aptosid repeatedly and some call it their favorite OS. With sterling testimonials like that I decided to try it as a guest OS on my Lucid.

I have to say that the splash screen is visually very nice! The install app is a little confusing in places. In fact, IMO, the partitioning section would be a show stopper for many noobs because it is not obvious what to do unless you've had prior experience. Having a separate root password and using su brings back old memories. Once the KDE desktop appears and the music stops its just another KDE desktop, even if it is only KDE 4.4.5. But, I love the fact that it is on sid's front edge. I would have no reservations switching to Aptosid if things didn't work out with Kubuntu.

[dibl]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

The install app is a little confusing in places. In fact, IMO, the partitioning section would be a show stopper for many noobs because it is not obvious what to do unless you've had prior experience.

@GG, I agree that first installation screen is way too busy with partition choices.

Did you take time to review their manual? -- it is very well done, IMO.

BTW, aptosid makes no pretenses about attracting newbies -- it probably is not, in fact, appropriate for the novice. Although my 80 year-old mother in-law doesn't seem to mind.

[woodsmoke]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

I actually got Arch to work but it was just way too much work.

Aptosid is a VERY good distro. I have it on a hard drive and get it out regularly, but it just doesn't "fit" with what I have to do in terms of "grading papers, you name it etc." but it is a REALLY good distro, tight, and does everything right all the time. The forum is kind of....well....not "talky" but they will help if asked and you show you have done your homework. The devs are spending time deving the distro! not working on the forum!

woodsmoke

[GreyGeek]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

...
Did you take time to review their manual? -- it is very well done, IMO.
....

I saw its icon on the desktop but I haven't read it yet. I'll have to give it a look...

[IgnorantGuru]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

Hi GG - Aptosid is on my list too. My main reservation about a debian-based distro is the patching and modding - I have found I like software as vanilla as possible and this avoids many problems. With ubuntu I had the trouble that they would break things while packaging them for the distro, and then would not respond to bug reports on it. Not sure where aptosid stands on that but I'll see what i can find, or just give it a try.

And thanks for the DreamLinux mention too - hadn't heard of that one yet.

[lcorken]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

I tried to install Aptosid. The install DVD put garbage on the screen then lock my old P4 rig till it needed a hard reset. Previously tried Squeeze Beta which installed but locked up on boot at X. It seems this old machine don't like Debian. Buntus work just fine.

Interestingly an install of AVLinux which is a studio type distro based on Debian Squeeze/Sid worked just fine. Well, it's nice that most stuff works.

Ken, the befuddled.

[woodsmoke]

Re: Arch's Dirty Little Not-So-Secret

Since the thread has wandered a little into discussion of how "newbies" are treated...
And I DETEST that term. It should be replaced with "new person" or lke here "new guy".

But, anyway, I've spent many, many months wandering Elysian Fields plucking the golden apples of the sun and came to a conclusion about how to get folks on your "good side" before you ask a question.

I noticed that people who tended to get good help were the ones that contributed something a couple of times before asking a question. Even if it is in the joke thread!

And you guys thought it was the ones that RTFM first!
GOTCHA!!

woodsmoke