What's your educational background?

[Detonate]

Re: What's your educational background?

The time to start your job search is now. Don't wait for graduation. I would recommend you identify the companies you might won't to work for, and research them to find out how their current employees with jobs that would be what you are looking for, got their jobs. Does the company have internships? How do you apply? Who can you write to that might assist you? Put some thought into this.

[rfakhrai]

Re: What's your educational background?

Yes, I know. I didn't intend my post to come out as though I've given up! I have yet to start! But it is a daunting task and, as the discussion was directed earlier, a bachelor's does not guarantee a job.

[GreyGeek]

Re: What's your educational background?

Geology sounds like a good field because it is difficult to outsource earth, or you'd have to go to China to find work.

We are running low on oil world wide, as evidenced by the fact that since 2005 we have been consuming more oil than we are discovering. The Mercado well in the Gulf, which BP blew up, was tapping a 50 million barrel field and it was labeled as a "giant" field by modern standards. Over fifty years ago fields found in the Mid East were truly GIANTS, and a few are STILL pumping almost a million barrels a day! The US is burning 8 BILLION barrels a year and our total reserves are less than half that. Not only that, a major metric is "feet drilled per barrel produced". In the hay-day of US production that metric was at 4,500 bbls per foot of well drilled. Now, however, it is approaching ZERO bbls per foot drilled. And, we are rapidly arriving at the point where it takes more energy than a barrel of oil contains to product a barrel of oil.

That leaves Coal. Our coal resources contain 6X more energy than the energy in the Mid-East oil fields, but it is more costly to convert to liquid hydrocarbons so our net energy is about the same.

Then there are the mineral resources: Nickel, Copper, and more importantly, Lithium, if we want to have electric automobiles. But, the major sources of Lithium deposits are in Brazil and China! Even if we could get all the Lithium in the world it would not be enough to convert our existing cars to battery power versions.

So, you have one of the most important jobs in the country: finding new sources of increasingly scarce resources. If you can't find a job in this country then we are truly toast.

[rfakhrai]

Re: What's your educational background?

I wholeheartedly agree. But big natural resource companies aren't going to stake their livelihood on a kid fresh out of undergrad. In fact, most of these companies don't offer internships. So, I'm looking for a research job to start and, once grad school pans out, I'll most likely be searching for a job in natural resources exploitation.

Your post was very eloquent, GG, as always.

[Detonate]

Re: What's your educational background?

I should note that may companies have a continuing education program that helps defray the cost of obtaining your MS. I personally feel that you might stand a better chance of getting a job with a BS and no experience that a MS and no experience. You might be considered overqualified for an entry level position. And the positions in a company that require a MS would very rarely be filled from the outside.

[rfakhrai]

Re: What's your educational background?

I think that's a very good point, Detonate. I hadn't thought of it like that. Either way, the Geological Society of America offers temporary summer positions (mostly for those who have a BS) so I have my eye on one of those for next summer. I think it'd be a great way to get the ball rolling. And I'm doing geologic tours of the Grand Canyon this summer.

I apologize, I didn't mean to hijack this thread and turn it into an advice thread for rfakhrai! 8)

[Ole Juul]

Re: What's your educational background?

. . . I apologize, I didn't mean to hijack this thread and turn it into an advice thread for rfakhrai! 8)

Hey, why not? This is, after all, the Social/Casual Talk corner of the Community Cafe.

There's a lot of mining around here and an old copper mine is just opening this year. The price of copper went up and China bought a piece of Canada. Anyway, that's useless to you. What is more interesting is the area I live in. It has got to be one of them more interesting areas around for minerals. Coal with amber in it, lots of gold of course, and surprisingly placer platinum. I see it in people's pans and have learnt to identify its subtle look. One of the things that struck me when I came here is the amazing variety of rocks. Actually I think a lot of rock hounds come to this area. If you're interested check out "3. Natural history and resources" on my community site. And if you come up this way, I'll put you up and feed you coffee and cake.

[oshunluvr]

Re: What's your educational background?

I have two kids in college and one about to be. When it's job time, you are correct that "networking" is important. As important is being the one noticed, being a recognizable face, putting in the work to get the job, and practicing interviewing skills.

Being noticed doesn't mean wearing a bright red shirt. It means be bright-faced, dressed attractively and looking the interviewer in the eyes. It helps to be first in line also. If you have to make an appointment to interview, get the earliest possible.

Being recognizable means appear as often as possible (just short of stalking) and introduce yourself along with the title of the job you're seeking. As in: "Hi, I'm Bob Jones. I'm here to apply for the Widget Sales job." This "attaches" your face to your application and the job in the eyes of the interviewer and anyone else who is listening.

Putting in the work means no one else will help you into a job. You have to do the foot work, meet-and-greet, learn as much as possible about the company/job, intern if possible, and so on. I once wanted a job in San Diego. I spent two years getting it. This required getting myself elected to an officer position, getting myself selected to a work committee, then taking the time to get to know every person possibly in the position to get me that job when it opened up (and letting them know I was interested).

Practice your interview skills with a couple of friends or classmates. Set up a desk and take turns asking each other dumb questions like you'll get in interviews. You'll hear questions with no real answers like "What do you consider as your greatest accomplishment and why?" and "If you were able to do something in your past over again, what would that be and why?" and "Where do you see yourself in five years?" These questions are mostly intended to see how you handle yourself and have no real bearing on the actual job you're applying for. Practicing (although it sounds totally dumb) will help you answer more smoothly and quickly, thus making you look more confident and intelligent.

As you mentioned, the first job is the hardest. You're likely to get a first chance with a smaller firm than a larger one. Have you considered government service? The pay is usually crap and you'll likely have to move to somewhere desolate, but a year in a job will give you a huge leg up for your next one.

[rfakhrai]

Re: What's your educational background?

Have you considered government service?

Yep! Working as a geologist for the government is a very attractive option. The NPS, USFS, and BLM all offer temporary summer positions that I am planning on applying for next summer (after I've graduated and as a segue to something else). As you said, the pay is crap, but most of of the time I get to put my loans on hold. I have Americorps experience from this last summer that I worked for 80 hours a week at minimum wage ($7.25/hr) building and maintaining trails for 8 days at a time. More character building than actual work experience.

Thanks for chiming in oshunluvr. I didn't know you had kids in college.

If you're interested check out "3. Natural history and resources" on my community site. And if you come up this way, I'll put you up and feed you coffee and cake.

Cool! I've always looked at your website and really liked the simplicity of the Coalmont General Store. If I ever make it up to BC, I'll contact you and we can go find some of these interesting rocks. The Mountains in BC appear to be connected to the same processes that formed the Sierra Nevadas throughout California but I will fact-check this with some of your links or independent research.

[Detonate]

Re: What's your educational background?

That's very good, oshunluvr. Many of the questions asked in an interview are standard questions that are asked in almost every interview and you can be prepared for them. One technique is to remember specific events in the past that show your abilities, and form your answers around those. Like little vignettes, that you play over and over in your mind. Also never give a negative answer in an interview, even if asked a question such as "What did you like least about your last job"? Turn the answer into a positive that reflects well on you. "In my last job I found that I was not quite as knowledgeable about a certain procedure that was required as I needed to be so I enrolled in a course in that subject to increase my knowledge." They hand you a lemon, make lemonade. Never knock your previous employer. Shows bad attitude. As oshunluvr said, practice. Be prepared. Always try to work in a compliment about the company and the interviewer. Now for the most important part. The last question asked in every interview is "Do you have any questions"? This is your opportunity to find out what the next step in the hiring process is. For many positions, the interview process may have several levels, you may be interviewed several times before you finally reach the level where the actual decision will be made. Try to find out the name and title of the next person in the process. Immediately after the interview, write two letters. One goes to the person you just interviewed with, thanking them for the time, and telling them how much you enjoyed meeting them and how much you are looking forward to the next step in the process. The other letter goes to the next person in the process, telling them how much you are looking forward to meeting them and how eager you are to work for this company. Include a copy of your resume. Do this at each step. This is the most important advice I can give anyone about interviewing.

[GreyGeek]

Re: What's your educational background?

While I agree with everything Detonate said about an MS making one "over qualified" for an entry level job, I believe that the current economic times have changed things.

First, going to grad school, and staying in it as long as you can before you graduate, may take you through the current poor job market and to times when jobs may be more plentiful. The down side of that is that your school debts may be larger.

Second, an MS may, in these times, make your MORE employable, not less. When my son was advanced to the head of the programming dept, he needed to hire an Oracle admin to fill his old job. He was amazed at the number of MS, PhDs, and people with several degrees and/or years of experience who applied for that job. One had a PhD in computer science and a degree in Law, but he found it was harder to make a living being a lawyer so he stayed with CS. He didn't accept the job offer because it was more than $30K less than what he wanted (and he was still employed at $100K at his present position). The next most highly skilled person, a lady with an MS (IIRC) and tons of experience, was chosen. The applicants with a BS and experience were looked at, and so were those with a BS only, but their skill set didn't measure up to what he could get by hiring from the more highly trained and experienced applicants. Those with only experience were not considered. During times when jobs were seeking people those highly qualified and experienced people would be hard to find.

[rfakhrai]

Re: What's your educational background?

Immediately after the interview, write two letters [. . .]

Wow! I definitely just learned something. So, as far as etiquette is concerned, would I snail mail these letters to them at the company? Thanks Detonate for the now invaluable advice.

@GreyGeek: I think both of your arguments make some sense. In a perfect world, someone with a BS could get a job with a company that has the fostership program to send them to grad school. But I think the necessity of having an MS or PhD is entirely conditional. In my field, of course Shell Oil isn't going to want to hire a BS as their field analyst. However, they also wouldn't want to hire an MS as a mudlogger whose job it is to look through mud analyzing mineralogical content. Of course, the idea of staying in school to "hunker down until the storm passes" is tempting. But I've taken a long road through undergraduate work and I'm ready to experience the real world, at least for a little bit

[Detonate]

Re: What's your educational background?

Yes, snail mail on good stationery, same as your resume, no typos and grammatically correct. Formal.