Book: Build your own PC

[woodsmoke]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

dibl

lol

just goes to show how far behind the times i am! lol

woodsmoke

[Qqmike]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

Stand-offs ... May be some issues with those pups.

For every stand-off "hole" in the mobo, it is desirable to have a corresponding stand-off set up in the case (and the mobo secured at that stand-off with a screw). (Even there, though, some experts say they've built units using only a very few--not every one provided--stand-offs to support the board).

However, now going the other way, here's the possible question:
If you have a standoff set up in the case that does NOT correspond to a provided hole in the mobo, is that OK not to use that stand-off (without removing it)? I've heard/read that it may be OK to have a "dead" stand-off under the board not being used. But I've also got the impression that you do not want such a dead, unused stand-off to interfere with electrical operation of the board (say by being in contact with circuit components; yes, the stand-off is brass, but ...).


HSF issue on Intell 775+ ...
Definitely secure the HSF to the board/cpu with the board outside the case! (Or, try it the other way--as we have all done--and report back with your experience! )

[Detonate]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

I have not run into the problem, but I would not want a unused standoff under the board unless I was sure it was in a safe place.

[sithlord48]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

I would not want a unused standoff under the board .

there i fixed that for you :P

i would be afraid even if in a safe place about somehow it being moved or something getting stuck under there.. or rubbing the board

[verndog]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

My first computer I built was in the early 70's, and I used 30 gauge wire and some schematics from the current electronics magazine. Back then, there was not video, only 8 digit led starburst. I'm taking about Rockwell AIM-65, KIM, SYM-1 era.

I took the AIM-65 and added dynamic ram and video using Radio Shack's Color Computer's SAM chip. It supplied refresh for the ram and supported video with some other discrete chips.

In todays world, its just a matter of plugging in the correct ram, hard drive , power supply, case. The motherboard has all you need build in, even integrated video, sound. Just buying the right ram is all that's needed.

[woodsmoke]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

Hi
The standoff thing really is relatively simple.

The real "problem" that I have seen is when folks buy a really marked down sale priced computer "kit". It is just my opinion, but from the several that I have seen, they are "often" kits that are put together from either extras that were bought by the company to scavenge for parts if something wasn't included by the manufacturer or they were parts from returned kits that were oddments, again because they were scavenged in some way.

That is not to say they were "bad", just that the parts would all fit together but were not "originally" intended to fit together.

The worst result of this that I have seen is when a young person gets a kit that the dad bought as a gift and there are standoffs in a package and a little eensy teensy piece of paper that says something like "place standoffs as per manufacturer's guidelines".

Rest assured that you probably won't be able to find the guidelines on the net very easily if you can even figure out who the manufacturer is.

The real, critical problem is putting too many standoffs on the back of the computer and then not knowing that, as mentioned above it not being in a "safe place". The safe place is one of either two places, where the hole for the standoff is or where there is not exposed "solder/wire end" for a component.

So the real problem is that one needs to somehow be able to interpret where the "bumps/holes" are on the back of the case compared to the mobo's(motherboard's) standoff holes. The problem is that you have to somehow hold the mobo and look at the holes and then look at the standoff holes(bumps) and figure which hole on the board can go with which standoff hole/bump.

On almost all mobos, as of a few years ago, there is a kind of "brass" looking ring around any hole that is intended to be for a standoff. On REALLY old boards, there was not such a ring on many of the offbrand boards.

The ring is not there to provide conductivity for the mobo to the back of the computer for the standoff to be able to somehow "ground" the mobo for electrical purposes.

You do not even need the case at all. As mentioned above about a fellow assembling components on a board and it worked. When I first test components I assemble the components on the cloth surface of the ironing board. Now you don't want to do that for hours and let it run, things do get warm, but you do not need to "ground" the mobo(motherboard) and case.

So back to the standoffs and bumps, I purchased a package of differently colored "sticky circles" that people use to write prices on for garage sales or put on stuff with a little dinky note, It has 5 colors in it.

When I visually compare the mobo holes to the standoff "holes/bumps" and figure out which I will probably use I put a colored sticky on the hole/bump. Then I lay the mobo on the back of the case and if I see all of the colors behind a hole, I can be sure I'll put the standoffs in a correct place.

One could also use any colored tape and just be sure to keep track of how many you place.

As to the number of standoffs you need, generally one does not need more than five standoffs. One for, generally, each corner, and one somewhere near where the memory sticks are( actually just near the centerline of the board vertically) so that when one is pushing memory sticks in it doesn't push the back of the mobo too much and thereby possibly seperate painted circuits a billionth of an inch or something.

Standoff "bumps/holes" there are basically three kinds and you can find images on the net.

• One is a piece of metal that is crimped into an upside down "U" that is soldered to the back of the case, these are pretty good but if the case is cheap they can get bent. They are generally a quarter or half inch across and you place the mobo on them and screws directly into them.
  
  Another is for the situation of just a "screw hole" in the back of the computer case. It is a small tube of metal that is has a screw in one end and the other end has interior threads that go all the way through so that you can screw into the tube. These are generally provided, I THINK, for generic cases that can then go with any kind of board you just choose which hole to put them in.
  
  The custom cases have several "dimples" that have screw holes in them. These have the "risk" of crossthreading the only available dimple and then not having it work when you change mobos because you have OVERCLOCKED IT SO MUCH that you melt it while playing HALO! 8) But they also provide an immovable position for a system that will be moved around a lot, as in the situation of a person going to gaming events. They also tend to be much quieter systems but also much heavier systems.
  

With the latter you then screw the "standoff" into the dimple and then use the screw to go through the mobo to the standoff. It is generally not a good idea to screw directly into the dimple because it is usually too wide of a diameter and might touch something behind. However, again, if one is using a custom case that is designed for a certain board or class of boards from a manufacturer one "could" do that, but since you can't actually SEE what is going on behind, it is probably best to not do it.

A note on "insulator rings": quite often people get paranoid about "heat" and there are plenty of computer repair ripoff people that will say that the mobo should be "insulated" from the case. And people wonder why there are no "insulator rings". The whole "insulator ring" is a historical anomaly from YEARS ago when the computer industry was getting started and some of the, usually, Korean, mobos just had "holes" in them, there was no "ring" and the holes were pretty small. Then we also get back into the "dimple"

There are several opinions suggested about the "insulator" ring whether it was made from ceramic, plastic, fiber/ceramic, whatever.

• First the "insulator" was not an insulator at all it was used to keep somebody from screwing a screw in so tightly that it broke the mobo hole.
  
  Second: During the time of when the "dimple" was first being used, the "ceramic" usually, or the combination "ceramic/fiber" (like on the donut that is used to connect the exhaust tube of a car to the engine) was used to get the mobo "up and away" from the dimple. In other words it was performing the function of a "standoff" tube.

I do not use "insulator" rings and I have never seen a person who I would say was a reliable computer repair person use them.

So to get back to the original, and very short, reference to "standoffs"... So... the critical thing is to find which "dimples" or holes in the case that you want to use, verify five times, either apply the standoff or use the "raised U" and then go for it.

woodsmoke

[toad]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

I built my current PC 18 months ago and still haven't got round to working out how to connect the two front USB ports :P I tried once, failed, tried again, failed again and couldn't be bothered any more. Far too fiddly!

But I really like that idea of putting the mobo, drives and what have you on a good looking piece of wood. You got any pictures, Detonate?

[Detonate]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

No, I don't have any pictures, and I don't live near the guy anymore, and I have lost contact with him. I also saw a picture on the internet of a computer that used one of those small refrigerators for a case. This guy was a serious gamer and overclocker. Said he never had any overheating problems after doing this.

[dibl]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

If you took a square meter of plywood, and then glued on a nice veneer of cherry or walnut, and sealed it with polyurethane, I would think that would make a nice base for arranging and mounting your hardware. Especially if you used some trim to make a "frame" around the edge of it.

But, I'm thinking the necessary cables (power, monitor, ethernet, keyboard, mouse, printer, scanner .... ) would still look fairly messy. And of course connecting a USB reader, cellphone, etc. is going to be a little tricky, depending on how you position the USB ports.

But, the air cooling should be fairly effective!

[woodsmoke]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

Here is a pretty svelt wall case, look at the second picture down.

http://zedomax.com/blog/2010/02/24/w...-pc-case-mods/

here is a wood sculpture computer case:

http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/iame...a-style-notch/

There was just the way coolest computer mod done about 6 years ago that was kind of like a "big harp" the wood part only not a harp strings or anything. It "leaned back" it was about four feet high it and about a foot wide The mobo was "upright" in it behind a panel, the fans were above and blowing down, again inside, the cd drives were horizontal in the wood, both on one side and the keyboard was in a slide out try. The whole thing was designed to sit beside an easy chair so that the user was sitting beside "modern art" in wood, the thing, I THINK went to a large screen tv by use of a very long cable.

The "feel" of it was like this, but again, imagine the "back leaning" part of a harp with some forward upper part for balance.

http://casadiseno.files.wordpress.co...rt-in-1944.jpg

maybe someone else saw it and might remember a site or something.

woodsmoke

[Ole Juul]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

I have a basement full of computer parts going back to about 1980. One might call it my "computer lego". I guess you could say that putting computers together is second nature for me.

Here is a picture of my latest. It's actually a restoration. I used all genuine IBM cards except for the modem which is period but not IBM. However I can also connect to the internet using the asynchronous communications adapter. Period reconstructions are lots of fun. BTW, woodsmoke, that ""brass" looking ring" is for producing a good ground and you will find that even the first 5150 board has it. That's just how you do things.

A slightly more modern one was my server. I took a skill saw to the box on that one. hehe In that "case" I had to arrange my own standoffs. One can use bits of wood or plastic and a glue gun if that's what you got. It's not rocket science. Just ground the appropriate spot.

My latest build is an Intel DH55TC board with an Intel dual core G6950 LGS1156 CPU and 8GB ram. I made a mistake with that one. Since video is not very important here (no games, ever), I was expecting to use the on-board video. Mistake. The newer Intel 55TC chipset is not supported by open-source drivers and I failed to note that before making my choices. It's VESA only until I can buy a video card.

Yep, the newer technology is much easier than the old. There's no low level format of MFM hard drives and entering bad sectors by hand before you can use it. Basically nowadays everything is keyed so, if it fits, it works. Not so much fun, but also a relief.

BTW, I have to say that I think that the people talking about thermal paste would get a surprise (and education) if they were to take the trouble to stick a thermocouple under the CPU and try a few different things. A few facts would be appropriate here.

[Detonate]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

BTW, I have to say that I think that the people talking about thermal paste would get a surprise (and education) if they were to take the trouble to stick a thermocouple under the CPU and try a few different things. A few facts would be appropriate here.

Enlighten me, oh wise one. See my motto in my signature.

[dibl]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

Yeah, I don't understand either, Ole. Intel has built thermal sensors into their CPU. Are you suggesting they are not reliable? How could an external thermocouple (if there were a place to position it) provide better data than an internal sensor?

[woodsmoke]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

Ole Jule:

I guess that we will agree to the idea that we have had different people tell us different things about the brass ring...the only problem for me really has been that I never could that thing out of the little dingus on the merry go round! lol.

Anyhow.....as to the SERVER.....

Is that tongue in groove knotty pine paneling that my eye espys in the background of the 8th picture "here it is turned on"... ? That is what my folks had throughout the house...I loved it. The living room was au naturel and the other rooms were each stained, lightly, a different stain.

and hey....great machine too!

woodsmoke

[Qqmike]

Re: Book: Build your own PC

the brass rings ... My understanding of it agrees with Ole Juul: standoffs at those "holes" in the mobo also serve a grounding purpose. (Ref.: the book I linked to in the first post of this thread)