I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

[PhilT]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

Quote from GG ; " ....Get the government off our back—nobody says get the corporations off your back. ".

With all the talk about politics above I think the real problem is the movement to money controlling everything, i.e., corporations. America does now seem to have "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy". No money? Well, then, you've no chance of doing anything in politics now! Forget it!! And the recent Supreme Court ruling on removing corporation funding limits seems to have opened up an even more obscene torrent of money buying elections, if the recent elections are anything to go by.

It seems to me that these airport safety corporations and the TSA are spreading FUD. And we've seen this before, haven't we? Make things confusing by spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt .... and then ... cash in with "solutions".

A certain software company comes to mind .....

[GreyGeek]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

Exactly!

It wasn't always so: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...8594#msg248594

[GreyGeek]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

I predicted that the TSA would expand its areas of operation deeper into our society, further restricting our liberties to create the illusion of "security": http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...and-the-metro-

After they have scanners and forced body searches at every location where multitudes congregate or pass through, what's the next step? Citizens required to apply for PERMISSION to travel OUTSIDE their city of residence by any means what soever. You could be a terrorist who lives in Lincoln but has plans to bomb places in Omaha. To prevent that the TSA needs to approve of any travel by anyone to any other place than where they live. For everyone's security, you understand.

Life under Nazi rule re-visited.

[woodsmoke]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

GG wrote:

Citizens required to apply for PERMISSION to travel OUTSIDE their city of residence by any means what soever.

It may be that some of our younger readers might not know that this is precisely what was done in the former U.S.S.R.

And probably very few know that under the BUSH administration, back maybe a couple of years after 9-11 that they discussed PRECISELY this idea, to be enacted IN the U.S. for our "protection".

This site may be deemed by some to be a conspiracy theory site, but this was discussed ON TELEVISION..and then it kind of quickly went away.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php..._United_States

It might be a nice exercise for somebody to see if this has actually been implemented in some other bill, as an earmark maybe! lol , or if it is even remotely connected, by paper, to the warrantless wiretaps law which was enacted under Bush and RE authorized under Obama.

However, as the site very rightly points out, the Pres has the ability to declare martial law anyway and could probably keep it in force for a while, but if there was no "obvious" reason that the general populace could see then there would probably be a political backlash and if that didn't work then there could be a forceful insurrection.

And this would not just be a "good ol' boy thing". I know a guy who does concealed carry teaching and his classes have mushroomed not in the midwest, but he and his partner are now travelling all over the U.S.

There are a lot of rats in the woodpile and they quite often wear different colored coats but they are still rats.

just my thoughts.

woodsmoke

[Detonate]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

It may be that some of our younger readers might not know that this is precisely what was done in the former U.S.S.R.

Also in Nazi Germany.

[woodsmoke]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

Detonate,
thanks, that had skipped my rum 'n coke addled mind!

or, it may be that my mind skipped it....

woodsmoke

[GreyGeek]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

Woodsmoke, from your URL is this:

"Executive Order Number 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and grant the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry."

And from another page on SourceWatch is this:

On January 24, 2006, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contingency contract to Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root (KBR) to "support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency"—in essence, American concentration camps—Business Wire reported

Those are NOT being built to house illegal immigrants till they get shipped home, or they would have used them already for that purpose. A list of Presidential Executive Orders and the powers they give the President is here, and at the bottom is a list of the supposed locations of the camps. Here is one in Columbus, OH.

[woodsmoke]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

hmmmmm not good!

woodsmoke

[toad]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

It may be that some of our younger readers might not know that this is precisely what was done in the former U.S.S.R.

Also in Nazi Germany.

Poppycock. Don't you believe it. If somebody didn't like the look of you (i.e. gay, socialist, communist, Jewish, Roma, handicapped, conscientious objector etc.) you were killed. Travel restrictions were only enforced towards the end of the Third Reich because of severe fuel shortages.

However, they ARE imposed on those who have been granted entry as a refugee in the Germany of today. They are not allowed to move outside their "zone" unless they get police permission and are not allowed to work - an absolute disgrace IMO. This hiatus can take years, years of one's life where one cannot be productive in any way.

But alas, I stray...

[GreyGeek]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

....
However, they ARE imposed on those who have been granted entry as a refugee in the Germany of today. They are not allowed to move outside their "zone" unless they get police permission and are not allowed to work - an absolute disgrace IMO. This hiatus can take years, years of one's life where one cannot be productive in any way.
...

mmm... Interesting. I've never read or heard that in any media reports. Living in Nurenburg, you should know. Some Imam's are claiming that by 2050 Europe will be Islamic states.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQp5_...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWo2iS3G9dE

So, I guess they don't have to work, just live on welfare and reproduce.

[toad]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

Berlin, not Nuremberg

As for that kind of scaremongering - I abhor most religions but especially these new fangled monotheistic ones which have missionaries. Having said that, here in Berlin we have had the Islam as part of our culture for literally hundreds of years, same goes for Judaism (with a well known and most lamentable interruption) as well the main two Christian sects among others.

A most disturbing recent development, however, is that the Calvinistic lot from the States have made it their express aim to "liberate" us :P Or should I say that they are trying to gain a foothold in a virgin market

[woodsmoke]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

The problem with liberalism is that it eventually slides into socialism and then into communism.

Pure communism, or the stage in history after socialism

And we have see that all of the attempts at that have produced misery and the intentional killing of untold millions of people on a vast scale.

Of course the liberals of the U.S. say that "they would do it right".

The problem with religion is that, on the Christian side we have had the Inquisition which killed some tens of thousands of people and the Salem Witch Hunts which killed a few.

Islam, however has killed on a vast scale also.

If everybody became Bhuddist we would all be a lot happier!

Calvinism had it's height of ludicrosity in the massive experiement on it in Geneva wherein the minions of Calvinism were counting the number of shoes in women's closets and in an absolutely horrifying prefiguring of the fifties in the U.S. measuring the height of women's dresses from the floor.

However to me the REAL problem with both the extreme of "Religion" and "Liberalism>Socialism>Communism" is:

then COMPLETE LACK OF ANY HUMOUR ON EITHER SIDE....

The great smarter than thou leaders of BOTH of these sides should be required to compete on Project Runway and Dancing With The Stars because they would ALL LOSE...and then the rest of us could get on with our lives.

Just my thoughts and I'm stickin to 'em!

woodsmoke

[GreyGeek]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

...
as well the main two Christian sects among others.
...

Catholics and Protestants?

A most disturbing recent development, however, is that the Calvinistic lot from the States have made it their express aim to "liberate" us :P Or should I say that they are trying to gain a foothold in a virgin market

The rare "Mega" churches with 10,000 members and a large TV budget make a huge but local splash in big cities in America, but for the most part Christianity in America is not evangelistic like it was 50 years ago. Religion has been, for the most part, relegated to births, deaths, weddings, Easter and Christmas. Folks in need of food or clothing will be drawn to churches with food and clothing give-away programs, but after they get on their feet they usually leave the group. Most church related programs are not big enough to compete with State sponsored welfare anyway.

Lots of Americans give lip service to a belief in God but very few attend church services on a bi-weekly or weekly basis, and of those that do their contributions rarely rise above 3% of their income -- just about the same level of financial support for FOSS. Most Americans have never read the Bible through completely and those that have cannot remember the difference between the two parts, or their basis messages. IF they have any knowledge of the Bible and Christianity it is usually from watching PBS presentations, a rather biased source. The "vacation Bible schools" and summer "Gospel Meetings" are, for the most part, history. The Mormons were making a big splash until a few years ago when it was shown that the "Book of Abraham" was a forgery foisted by Joseph Smith to strengthen his claim that his "seer stones" were true gifts from God to help him write their scriptures.

So, all in all, the Christian Faith in America is in decline, just like it is in England. In these present economic times people are beginning to question why religions have tax exemptions on their property and the salaries paid their ministers, so I expect those perks to disappear within a few years, which will accelerate the decline. Most churches are small (<100) groups built around one or two wealthy families who control everything, usually for tax write-offs. When they die or their kids leave there is no children to take over and the church dies when all the members die or leave. If they have buildings it falls into disrepair or or taken over by the banks, just as in England.

[GreyGeek]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

The problem with liberalism is that it eventually slides into socialism and then into communism.
.....

A book by Bastiat, written in the late 1800's makes some interesting arguments.

[toad]

Re: I guess God (needs to) bless America! But this is why I won't go there again.

Hang on, I am quite enjoying this, but I don't get how liberalism eventually slides into socialism and then into communism. Is this a common path taken by Scandinavian or European states? Methinks not.

afaic liberalism has something to do with freedom whereas communism, even in its philosophical sense and not the perversion of it which was practised by a number of states around the world, cannot really score on that front

I like Bastiat's point, thanks for that, GG. And as for the two main Christian sects - of course you are right, I meant Catholics and Protestants.