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    Total BS

    That's how a LinuxToday reader, Rainer Weikusat, summed up the claims by FEWT that Linux is more insecure than Windows.

    Basically, a minor side water development project, Unreal, which offers an Open Source IRC server, exercised poor server administration skills which allowed their source code to get infected sometime after November 10, 2009. They noticed it only a few days ago.

    FEWT used that, and one other incident by another minor side water project to claim that Windows 7 is more secure than Linux ... an ASTONISHING leap of logic. He backs his claims up with statement containing a combination of truths and half-truths:
    When discussing Desktop Linux, the list of possible attack vectors is HUGE and there are just too many to discuss here. The following represents a few of the simplest to compromise areas which can easily be used to gain access to a Desktop Linux system.

    * Files placed in /home, /var, and /tmp can be executed
    * ~/.config/autostart is user writable without elevating permission
    * Listeners can be started by processes running as the user above 1024 without elevating permission
    * Use of forums, blogs, and similar to resolve problems often instructs users to run scripts

    Malware isn't limited to existence as a binary, Malware can be a shell script. A simple shell script posted in a forum offering to help a user can contain functions that could be immediately applied using only user credentials that can at a minimum perform all of the following bad things to your data.

    He then makes this statement:
    Lets stop selling the make believe case that Desktop Linux is any more secure than Windows because it just plain isn't.
    which he follows up with unnecessary advice which would be difficult or impossible for most ordinary Linux users to employ, which is the obvious intent, because he follows that prescription with the purpose of his real intent:
    If you consider these steps to be too complex then I strongly recommend that you stop using Desktop Linux. Not because I believe you aren't capable, I would just prefer to see you using a platform that helps you protect your data.

    So, use Windows (and Mac?) rather than Linux to "protect your data"? That's rich in irony. That piece of advice comes from a Windows developer who attempted to create some system tray tools for Eeepc using Mono but failed, so he blames Ubuntu and quits Linux, more than once, apparently because his first "I'm gonna take my marbles and go home" didn't arouse enough interest to suit him.

    Here's his "Bottom Line":
    Bottom line: Be mindful that Desktop Linux is completely unlike Windows, and unlike Windows there is nothing on a Desktop Linux system to warn you when something bad happens.
    An amazing statement. I'm just wondering why 1,300,000 Windows users, after being informed by Windows that their OS was being hijacked as a zombie into a bot farm, agreed to allow it! I also wonder if he has ever heard of tripwire, or several other intrusion detectors, or of rkhunter or chkrootkit.

    I am also wondering, since Steve Ballmer himself said a year ago last February that Linux owned 12% of the desktop market share, where are the large, hundred thousand zombie Linux bot farms? Especially since most Windows fanbois claim that infections map to popularity. So, if Windows has over 2 million viruses and such each year, and it does, Linux should have over 200,000 of viruses pounding on it. It doesn't. What is it that virus makers know that FEWT is hiding? That most malware requires the user to first manually save it, then manually add the execute permission, then manually run it, because Linux does not execute email attachments without taking those steps. Last year a hacker group created a 700 zombie Linux bot farm by manually hacking into those computers. It took seven months ( IIRC) for them to do so, about one every 40 minutes per working day. Email won't do it. Hacking mono-a-mono won't do it. Bad web sites are not doing it. IF Linux had even a 10,000 zombi bot farm Microsoft would PAY to make sure that news was ALL OVER the media it owns or controls. (On a side note, one can't help but recall how Microsoft bragged, in their "Highly Reliable Times" ad that .NET was chosen over Linux to create the London Stock Exchange's new trading program. It turns out that Linux wasn't even under consideration and that the .NET "solution" blew up in LSE's face, costing them over $1 Billion. LSE purchased a Linux alternative that had been around for 5 years, which was $ millions cheaper and 5 times faster, and with NO history of failure. The "Highly Reliable Times" has never printed a retraction! )

    The advice given by the second source that FEWT cited, makes this statement:
    This incident highlights that fact that Linux, just like Windows, can be infected with malware if users are not careful while installing software from outside of the official repositories and trusted PPAs.
    This is why knowledgeable folks on this form state that Linux users with little experience would be wise using ONLY those applications downloaded from the Kubuntu repository or approved PPA's.

    Now THAT is good advice.

    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

    #2
    Re: Total BS

    Originally posted by GreyGeek

    FEWT used that, and one other incident by another minor side water project to claim that Windows 7 is more secure than Linux ... an ASTONISHING leap of logic. He backs his claims up with statement containing a combination of truths and half-truths:
    When discussing Desktop Linux, the list of possible attack vectors is HUGE and there are just too many to discuss here. The following represents a few of the simplest to compromise areas which can easily be used to gain access to a Desktop Linux system.

    * Files placed in /home, /var, and /tmp can be executed
    * ~/.config/autostart is user writable without elevating permission
    * Listeners can be started by processes running as the user above 1024 without elevating permission
    * Use of forums, blogs, and similar to resolve problems often instructs users to run scripts

    Malware isn't limited to existence as a binary, Malware can be a shell script. A simple shell script posted in a forum offering to help a user can contain functions that could be immediately applied using only user credentials that can at a minimum perform all of the following bad things to your data.
    That's just too goofy to respond to, isn't it? With that logic, my car is a security risk for banks, since someone, somewhere, might suggest to me that I use it to go rob a bank.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Total BS

      The problem is that too many gullible people believe it.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Total BS

        The same FEWT (KFN fewt), who back in 2009, deleted all of his posts here, leaving only his last "I Quit" post, where he claimed: "I have been a Linux user professionally since 1995,..." (emphasis added) :P
        Windows no longer obstructs my view.
        Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
        "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Total BS

          Originally posted by The Liquidator
          The problem is that too many gullible people believe it.
          Well, yes -- probably related to this little bit of non-debatable truth:

          "50% of all people are of below average intelligence."


          Comment


            #6
            Re: Total BS

            And its corollary: Those of us in the bottom 50% think we are in the top 50%
            "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
            – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Total BS

              Jealous much? You sound like a bunch of old ladys complaining about nothing.
              Don't blame me for being smarter than you, that's your parent's fault.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Total BS

                Is that you, FEWT?
                "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Total BS

                  No, we aren't. Actually we should request FEWT or the guy who made those ridiculous statements for more "attack vectors" than those few he mentioned back then. Or does it mean those were the ONLY possible attack vectors he could actually "find"?
                  Multibooting: Kubuntu Noble 24.04
                  Before: Jammy 22.04, Focal 20.04, Precise 12.04 Xenial 16.04 and Bionic 18.04
                  Win XP, 7 & 10 sadly
                  Using Linux since June, 2008

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Total BS

                    Along those line I read this article. Yes I've followed this guy's articles. Why? I don't know. But his article really solidified it for me that he is truly a M$ fanboi if ever you "read" one. Again what is funny is they keep saying "out side of the normal Repos". Well DUH!!!!

                    Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over; Gentoo ships backdoor? [updated]


                    I also think that is why I recently posted here about trusting a particular download site! It was "Out Side the normal REPOS"!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Total BS

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      That's how a LinuxToday reader, Rainer Weikusat, summed up the claims by FEWT that Linux is more insecure than Windows.
                      Rainer is a LinuxToday troll. Where is your source for the statement "the claims by FEWT that Linux is more insecure than Windows"? That's not what was stated in the article.

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      Basically, a minor side water development project, Unreal, which offers an Open Source IRC server, exercised poor server administration skills which allowed their source code to get infected sometime after November 10, 2009. They noticed it only a few days ago.
                      unrealircd is a very popular internet relay chat daemon.

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      FEWT used that, and one other incident by another minor side water project to claim that Windows 7 is more secure than Linux ... an ASTONISHING leap of logic.
                      By this do you mean the other backdoor that was found recently in a theme packaged for Ubuntu? Here you are mentioning some imaginary statement about Windows 7 being more secure than Linux again. Where is this claim that Windows 7 is more secure than Linux. The wording in the article is "Linux is just as vulnerable if not more so than any other platform.". Why are you lying?

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      He backs his claims up with statement containing a combination of truths and half-truths:
                      Quote
                      When discussing Desktop Linux, the list of possible attack vectors is HUGE and there are just too many to discuss here. The following represents a few of the simplest to compromise areas which can easily be used to gain access to a Desktop Linux system.

                      * Files placed in /home, /var, and /tmp can be executed
                      * ~/.config/autostart is user writable without elevating permission
                      * Listeners can be started by processes running as the user above 1024 without elevating permission
                      * Use of forums, blogs, and similar to resolve problems often instructs users to run scripts

                      Malware isn't limited to existence as a binary, Malware can be a shell script. A simple shell script posted in a forum offering to help a user can contain functions that could be immediately applied using only user credentials that can at a minimum perform all of the following bad things to your data.
                      Which of these statements are half-truths? Please provide detail, and link to sources.

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      He then makes this statement:
                      Quote
                      Lets stop selling the make believe case that Desktop Linux is any more secure than Windows because it just plain isn't.

                      which he follows up with unnecessary advice which would be difficult or impossible for most ordinary Linux users to employ, which is the obvious intent, because he follows that prescription with the purpose of his real intent:
                      Quote
                      If you consider these steps to be too complex then I strongly recommend that you stop using Desktop Linux. Not because I believe you aren't capable, I would just prefer to see you using a platform that helps you protect your data.
                      Why is the advice unnecessary? Post your sources. Are you making the claim that Linux is impenetrable? Why do you assume that the intent is to make people go back to Windows? You seem to fall into the trap that most newbie Linux users fall into. The trap being that anyone that says anything that you don't like is automatically out to get you. Must be a conspiracy.

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      So, use Windows (and Mac?) rather than Linux to "protect your data"? That's rich in irony. That piece of advice comes from a Windows developer who attempted to create some system tray tools for Eeepc using Mono but failed, so he blames Ubuntu and quits Linux, more than once, apparently because his first "I'm gonna take my marbles and go home" didn't arouse enough interest to suit him.
                      There isn't anything wrong with this. If you can't configure your Linux computer to be safe, then you shouldn't use Linux. Funny a "Windows developer" with Linux projects on SourceForge since 1999. Hmm... More bad facts, you are full of these it seems. Smells of more jealousy too. You won't find anything about quitting "Linux" because that simply isn't true. Ubuntu, yes because it's a bug ridden pile of junk. Where are your sources for these failures? Just more lies. You seem to be quite good at lying. I don't really think anyone took any marbles and went home, I think you are making up stories.

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      Here's his "Bottom Line":
                      Quote
                      Bottom line: Be mindful that Desktop Linux is completely unlike Windows, and unlike Windows there is nothing on a Desktop Linux system to warn you when something bad happens.
                      Remember, this back door was there for 7 months before being "noticed" implying that it wasn't being looked for. There weren't any pop-ups that said "hey you have something awry here".

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      An amazing statement. I'm just wondering why 1,300,000 Windows users, after being informed by Windows that their OS was being hijacked as a zombie into a bot farm, agreed to allow it! I also wonder if he has ever heard of tripwire, or several other intrusion detectors, or of rkhunter or chkrootkit.
                      I wonder now why you imply a lack of knowledge of tripwire, samhain, rkhunter, chrootkit, denyhosts, tcpwrappers, iptables, selinux, apparmour, and other tools designed to protect servers when you are discussing a desktop distribution. Is that so you can try to pawn your opinion as a fact? I think it is.

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      I am also wondering, since Steve Ballmer himself said a year ago last February that Linux owned 12% of the desktop market share, where are the large, hundred thousand zombie Linux bot farms? Especially since most Windows fanbois claim that infections map to popularity. So, if Windows has over 2 million viruses and such each year, and it does, Linux should have over 200,000 of
                      Linux owns around 1.2% of the "desktop" segment, not 12%. Cite your source, or this is just more of your lies. Please also quote your source for 2 million new viruses each year, lets see the trend over the last 5 years.

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      viruses pounding on it. It doesn't. What is it that virus makers know that FEWT is hiding? That most malware requires the user to first manually save it, then manually add the execute permission, then manually run it, because Linux does not execute email attachments without taking those steps. Last year a hacker group created a 700 zombie Linux bot farm by manually hacking into those computers. It took seven months ( IIRC) for them to do so, about one every 40 minutes per working day. Email won't do it. Hacking mono-a-mono won't do it. Bad web sites are not doing it. IF Linux had even a 10,000 zombi bot farm Microsoft would PAY to make sure
                      Perhaps it's just being thorough? You make a lot of assumptions which really means that you don't understand the platform, or security at-all.

                      How to create a Linux virus in 5 easy steps
                      Ignorance leads to Linux botnets
                      Hole in the kernel allows root access
                      Flash vulnerability applies to multiple platforms

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      that news was ALL OVER the media it owns or controls. (On a side note, one can't help but recall how Microsoft bragged, in their "Highly Reliable Times" ad that .NET was chosen over Linux to create the London Stock Exchange's new trading program. It turns out that Linux wasn't even under consideration and that the .NET "solution" blew up in LSE's face, costing them over $1 Billion. LSE purchased a Linux alternative that had been around for 5 years, which was $ millions cheaper and 5 times faster, and with NO history of failure. The "Highly Reliable Times" has never printed a retraction! )
                      Talking about how bad Windows is at a single task just shifts the focus, is that your intent? Are you intentionally redirecting the conversation away from security to bugs in .NET? Why, are you incapable of making your case with facts or are you just blowing a lot of hot air because someone on the internet made you a little upset?

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      The advice given by the second source that FEWT cited, makes this statement:
                      Quote
                      This incident highlights that fact that Linux, just like Windows, can be infected with malware if users are not careful while installing software from outside of the official repositories and trusted PPAs.
                      You do realize that is the whole point of the article right?

                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      This is why knowledgeable folks on this form state that Linux users with little experience would be wise using ONLY those applications downloaded from the Kubuntu repository or approved PPA's.

                      Now THAT is good advice.
                      Of course it is good advice. Bad things can creep into repositorys though. Packagers don't typically analyze source code because they lack the skills needed, they just release packages.
                      Don't blame me for being smarter than you, that's your parent's fault.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Total BS

                        Originally posted by zlow
                        .....
                        Rainer is a LinuxToday troll. ...
                        So, your reply reads like fewt writes, including calling Rainer a troll, at that.

                        I have exchanged personal emails with Rainer. I've posted on LT since 1999, and IF you had spent any time on LT you would know that Rainer has been posting there for several years. He has an acerbic wit, is VERY knowledgeable about programming, and doesn't abide pretenders. His comment about Fewt's article still stands.

                        I find it interesting that you cite the "1.2% that the MS Proxy, Netapplications, claims is the Linux market share. NetApplications rebrands Windows executable for resale. It's little wonder that very few browsers run on Linux visit their website. But, since you asked for it, here is a copy of the graphic that Steve Ballmer presented when he said that Linux was a greater threat than Apple. He shows the Linux desktop market share at slightly bigger than Apple's. At the time Apple's was 10%, and the Linux slice is larger than the Apple slice. It also means that Microsoft's share of the desktop market is now less than 80%, a significant drop from the halcyon days of 95%. The remarkable thing is that the vast majority of those running a Linux desktop do so by either dual booting Linux with Windows, or by replacing Windows with Linux.

                        Quote from: GreyGeek on June 14, 2010, 05:40:38 am
                        The advice given by the second source that FEWT cited, makes this statement:
                        Quote
                        This incident highlights that fact that Linux, just like Windows, can be infected with malware if users are not careful while installing software from outside of the official repositories and trusted PPAs.
                        You do realize that is the whole point of the article right?
                        That was the whole point of the article cited by Fewt, but he didn't quote that part, I did. You did see the last paragraph of my post ... highlighted in red? Fewt wasn't making that point. I'll quote the last three paragraphs of his article:
                        For instructions on performing these steps, review pre-existing hardening guides and posts, most of the information contained is portable. If you consider these steps to be too complex then I strongly recommend that you stop using Desktop Linux. Not because I believe you aren't capable, I would just prefer to see you using a platform that helps you protect your data.

                        What else can you do? Honestly as users there isn't much, it is in the hands of the distribution building community to employ good defaults and to educate users. It is up to developers of the Desktop Linux platform to build protections for end users.

                        Bottom line: Be mindful that Desktop Linux is completely unlike Windows, and unlike Windows there is nothing on a Desktop Linux system to warn you when something bad happens.
                        So, you see nothing wrong with Fewt recommending measures (unnecessary) that he knows most Linux users couldn't do anyway, then "preferring" they use a platform that helps them "protect" their data? Just what would that platform be? The Mac? Fewt was trying to use Mono to convert his Windows system tray tools to Ubuntu's Eeepc version. You believe that Windows protects a user's data better than Linux?


                        About the rest of your criticisms I leave it to the readers decided who is misrepresenting things. I could have cited Fewt's postings to this forum but after our exchanges he decided that he would delete all of his postings, just the way he deleted most of his posting on the Eeepc forum. For the readers here is his article implying that Windows is more secure than Linux, and his "I Quit" story.
                        http://www.fewt.com/2010/04/system-s...your-data.html
                        http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-an...untu-developer



                        "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                        – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Total BS

                          Originally posted by GreyGeek
                          I have exchanged personal emails with Rainer. I've posted on LT since 1999, and IF you had spent any time on LT you would know that Rainer has been posting there for several years. He has an acerbic wit, is VERY knowledgeable about programming, and doesn't abide pretenders. His comment about Fewt's article still stands.
                          Rainer didn't take into consideration heuristics pattern matching which is why he is wrong. He is full of himself and refuses to be wrong about anything. If he was half the developer you claim him to be he would have thought through the whole problem before making a fool of himself.

                          Educate yourself about technology that is over a decade old.

                          http://www.symantec.com/connect/arti...tions-overview

                          Originally posted by GreyGeek
                          I find it interesting that you cite the "1.2% that the MS Proxy, Netapplications, claims is the Linux market share. NetApplications rebrands Windows executable for resale. It's little wonder
                          I quote the same statistics as many other in the industry including SJVN. There you are going on about Windows again. Again trying to lead the conversation in to your rabbit hole.

                          Originally posted by GreyGeek
                          But, since you asked for it, here is a copy of the graphic that Steve Ballmer presented when he said that Linux was a greater threat than Apple. He shows the Linux desktop market share at slightly bigger than Apple's. At the time Apple's was 10%, and the Linux slice is larger than the Apple slice. It also means that Microsoft's share of the desktop market is now less than 80%, a significant drop from the halcyon days of 95%. The remarkable thing is that the vast majority of those running a Linux desktop do so by either dual booting Linux with Windows, or by replacing Windows with Linux.
                          A picture? Are you serious? I said substantiate it, I'm not going to accept a picture and make believe that it's real.

                          Originally posted by GreyGeek
                          That was the whole point of the article cited by Fewt, but he didn't quote that part, I did. You did see the last paragraph of my post ... highlighted in red? Fewt wasn't making that point.
                          "If you are interested in better protecting your computer, there are a few things that you can do but you most likely will need to reinstall your distribution because Desktop Linux distributions don't break out your filesystems like we do in the Enterprise. Here is a short list of steps you can perform that significantly reduce the attack surface"

                          Source: fewt.com

                          Originally posted by GreyGeek
                          I'll quote the last three paragraphs of his article:
                          For instructions on performing these steps, review pre-existing hardening guides and posts, most of the information contained is portable. If you consider these steps to be too complex then I strongly recommend that you stop using Desktop Linux. Not because I believe you aren't capable, I would just prefer to see you using a platform that helps you protect your data.

                          What else can you do? Honestly as users there isn't much, it is in the hands of the distribution building community to employ good defaults and to educate users. It is up to developers of the Desktop Linux platform to build protections for end users.

                          Bottom line: Be mindful that Desktop Linux is completely unlike Windows, and unlike Windows there is nothing on a Desktop Linux system to warn you when something bad happens.
                          So, you see nothing wrong with Fewt recommending measures (unnecessary) that he knows most Linux users couldn't do anyway, then "preferring" they use a platform that helps them "protect" their data? Just what would that platform be? The Mac? Fewt was trying to use Mono to convert his Windows system tray tools to Ubuntu's Eeepc version. You believe that Windows protects a user's data better than Linux?
                          The measures are unnecessary in your opinion. I have asked you to substantiate those statements. You completely glossed over the stated implication to distribution builders that more steps should be taken to protect users that are not technically capable of building those protections themselves.

                          "It is up to developers of the Desktop Linux platform to build protections for end users."

                          Source: fewt.com

                          So, prove why they are not necessary steps. Prove why a Linux user should not take steps to protect their computers and their data.

                          Do you honestly believe that the application was written for Windows and then ported? Why don't you just inspect the source code. According to timestamps on the blog December 16, 2008 and April 3, 2009 the scripts came first and the GUI (C#) came later. None of it was ported from some imaginary Windows code.

                          So, again substantiate the claim or admit the lie.

                          Originally posted by GreyGeek
                          About the rest of your criticisms I leave it to the readers decided who is misrepresenting things. I could have cited Fewt's postings to this forum but after our exchanges he decided that he would delete all of his postings, just the way he deleted most of his posting on the Eeepc forum. For the readers here is his article implying that Windows is more secure than Linux, and his "I Quit" story.
                          Have you ever asked why the thread was deleted, or the posts here? No, I'm sure it is easier for you to make up stories instead. You haven't substantiated a single statement that you have made. Leaving it to the "readers" is just a deflection in an attempt to save credibility.

                          Perhaps if you are going to link to stories, you can link to the actual story and not an opinion of the story.
                          Don't blame me for being smarter than you, that's your parent's fault.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Total BS

                            Removed: I accidentally quoted rather than modified.
                            Don't blame me for being smarter than you, that's your parent's fault.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Total BS

                              Originally posted by zlow
                              Originally posted by GreyGeek
                              I have exchanged personal emails with Rainer. I've posted on LT since 1999, and IF you had spent any time on LT you would know that Rainer has been posting there for several years. He has an acerbic wit, is VERY knowledgeable about programming, and doesn't abide pretenders. His comment about Fewt's article still stands.
                              Rainer didn't take into consideration heuristics pattern matching which is why he is wrong. He is full of himself and refuses to be wrong about anything. If he was half the developer you claim him to be he would have thought through the whole problem before making a fool of himself.
                              How do you know? Because he didn't agree with you? Now who is "full of himself"?

                              Educate yourself about technology that is over a decade old.

                              http://www.symantec.com/connect/arti...tions-overview
                              Ignoring the arrogant statement, you are claiming that because AV houses use heuristic algorithms their products keep Windows users safe, even more safe than Linux keeps its users? And that these techniques trap viruses whose signatures are not in their DAT files? BOTH you and I have cleaned malware off of considerable numbers of fully subscribed and "protected" Windows systems. IF those techniques worked as well as you are claiming one would be hard pressed to blame lack of updated AV subscriptions as the reason why over 1,000,000 Windows zombies populated a single bot farm last year. And one would also have to wonder why those AV houses have to release updated vaccine files to block or clean new malware?

                              Originally posted by GreyGeek
                              I find it interesting that you cite the "1.2% that the MS Proxy, Netapplications, claims is the Linux market share. NetApplications rebrands Windows executable for resale. It's little wonder

                              I quote the same statistics as many other in the industry including SJVN. There you are going on about Windows again. Again trying to lead the conversation in to your rabbit hole.
                              Your Ronald Reagan imitation needs some work, and SJVN isn't as knowledgeable source as Ballmer is when it comes to statistics that HE has indirectly or directly released.


                              Originally posted by GreyGeek
                              But, since you asked for it, here is a copy of the graphic that Steve Ballmer presented when he said that Linux was a greater threat than Apple. He shows the Linux desktop market share at slightly bigger than Apple's. At the time Apple's was 10%, and the Linux slice is larger than the Apple slice. It also means that Microsoft's share of the desktop market is now less than 80%, a significant drop from the halcyon days of 95%. The remarkable thing is that the vast majority of those running a Linux desktop do so by either dual booting Linux with Windows, or by replacing Windows with Linux.
                              A picture? Are you serious? I said substantiate it, I'm not going to accept a picture and make believe that it's real.
                              I'm very serious. You, it seems, will accept only that which fits your world view. I didn't make up the graphic, nor did I write Ballmer's speech at that event. When he says that Linux is a greater threat than Apple and shows a graphic which has the Linux slice slightly larger than the Apple slice one has to conclude that either he is lying (your next retort) or that he is telling the truth. You seem to conveniently ignore NetApplication's dependency Microsoft.

                              Originally posted by GreyGeek
                              That was the whole point of the article cited by Fewt, but he didn't quote that part, I did. You did see the last paragraph of my post ... highlighted in red? Fewt wasn't making that point.
                              "If you are interested in better protecting your computer, there are a few things that you can do but you most likely will need to reinstall your distribution because Desktop Linux distributions don't break out your filesystems like we do in the Enterprise. Here is a short list of steps you can perform that significantly reduce the attack surface"

                              Source: fewt.com

                              Originally posted by GreyGeek
                              I'll quote the last three paragraphs of his article:
                              For instructions on performing these steps, review pre-existing hardening guides and posts, most of the information contained is portable. If you consider these steps to be too complex then I strongly recommend that you stop using Desktop Linux. Not because I believe you aren't capable, I would just prefer to see you using a platform that helps you protect your data.

                              What else can you do? Honestly as users there isn't much, it is in the hands of the distribution building community to employ good defaults and to educate users. It is up to developers of the Desktop Linux platform to build protections for end users.

                              Bottom line: Be mindful that Desktop Linux is completely unlike Windows, and unlike Windows there is nothing on a Desktop Linux system to warn you when something bad happens.
                              So, you see nothing wrong with Fewt recommending measures (unnecessary) that he knows most Linux users couldn't do anyway, then "preferring" they use a platform that helps them "protect" their data? Just what would that platform be? The Mac? Fewt was trying to use Mono to convert his Windows system tray tools to Ubuntu's Eeepc version. You believe that Windows protects a user's data better than Linux?
                              The measures are unnecessary in your opinion. I have asked you to substantiate those statements. You completely glossed over the stated implication to distribution builders that more steps should be taken to protect users that are not technically capable of building those protections themselves.
                              Of course it is my opinion, just like you are giving yours, regardless of how many appeals to authority you use. Expert opinions are a dime a dozen and I've encountered many of them in court cases I've been involved in. They've even been known to change their opinion when it suits them.

                              Cutting through all the BS, smoke and mirrors, your claim is that distro builders are so careless that their distros are less secure than Windows and their repositories are like virus hives. That's the BS. The proof is in the lack of large bot farms, and in the experience of the VAST majority of Linux users who have NEVER seen a Linux virus or Trojan, whose boxes have NEVER been infected. I'll admit ... I've been using Linux only for a little over 12 years, but I've never seen a Linux virus or Trojan in the wild either.

                              "It is up to developers of the Desktop Linux platform to build protections for end users."

                              Source: fewt.com

                              So, prove why they are not necessary steps. Prove why a Linux user should not take steps to protect their computers and their data.

                              Do you honestly believe that the application was written for Windows and then ported? Why don't you just inspect the source code. According to timestamps on the blog December 16, 2008 and April 3, 2009 the scripts came first and the GUI (C#) came later. None of it was ported from some imaginary Windows code.

                              So, again substantiate the claim or admit the lie.
                              YOU control the content of those blogs, and you've erased those postings on this forum and others which could contradict you. But, I notice that you are claiming that the GUI came later, and you put C-Sharp in parentheses. C# is not a GUI tool, it is a scripting tool. The LEGAL GUI components of Mono are GKT# wappers of the GUI components of the GTK+ API. Maybe that's why you had trouble getting those two system tray tools to work?


                              Originally posted by GreyGeek
                              About the rest of your criticisms I leave it to the readers decided who is misrepresenting things. I could have cited Fewt's postings to this forum but after our exchanges he decided that he would delete all of his postings, just the way he deleted most of his posting on the Eeepc forum. For the readers here is his article implying that Windows is more secure than Linux, and his "I Quit" story.
                              Have you ever asked why the thread was deleted, or the posts here? No, I'm sure it is easier for you to make up stories instead. You haven't substantiated a single statement that you have made. Leaving it to the "readers" is just a deflection in an attempt to save credibility.

                              Perhaps if you are going to link to stories, you can link to the actual story and not an opinion of the story.
                              Now whose trolling? And getting ridiculous at the same time. Too many people read and saw those posts before you deleted them.

                              I've got more important things to do than spar with a Windows fanboi. My 8 year old grandson is playing a ball game and I don't want to be late.
                              "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                              – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

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