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    Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

    Note: This is an Op-Ed piece for discussion. No intention to hurt anyones' feeling, nor am I looking to get flamed. Just want to chat...

    I have been using linux mostly for 15 years and solely for about 11. I'd categorize myself as a well-experienced and adept user - not a developer or professional. I've managed to grow from someone who knows just enough to be dangerous to not being dangerous any longer. A significant hurdle, I think.

    I've waded through many distros. For my daily use; Mandrake morphed into Mandriva, which led to PCLinuxOS, which I had to leave behind because of lack of growth. Used a few others off and on, openSUSE was too windows like for me and I never did get their repository things figured out correctly. Four different repos for multimedia codecs - some of which aren't compatible with others? Gimme a break. Now I'm using Kubuntu and I think it's great. The backing of a large commercial enterprise, large public community, and huge software base. Apt-get and the repos: great. Kpackage kit not-so-much, but that's a KDE issue not Canonical.

    Moving toward the point: Why doesn't linux bust M$ to pieces and take the desktop world by storm? We all know lots of reasons: M$ should be called MarketingSoft, congressional lobbyists and back-room sweetheart deals, illegal and unfair business practices, blah blah blah. What about the windows users: Change is scary, free can't be good, my $10 webcam won't work with linux so I spent $400 on a Windows OS and anti-virus and other software, blah blah blah.

    I REAL problem is the nature of linux itself. Hacker's and openness and "I don't like your distro so I'll make my own" and so on. Me? I love that. That's what makes linux great. What makes linux suck? Almost NO hardware vendor support, very little in the way of awesome cool and wicked games and (at least for the common computer user) no consistency in the OS itself. OpenSUSE does it one way, Ubuntu another, Mandriva a third, Gentoo and so on ad infnitum. This creates a very large learning curve with a smaller payoff than windows. THAT'S why linux is not the most used OS. OK - money drives everything and no one has come up with a great way to make boat loads of cash with linux, but I still believe if you build a better product, the people will come.

    So what the solution? Remember I'm not a professional. What would make the linux experience better to the point where I could translate it to others users without regard to their skill level and have them say bye-bye to the M$ chains?

    A solid, uniform, core system. The kernel and it's hardware support - stable, tested, supported by vendors, used by all distros. Every distro uses the same core. Then all users hardware works regardless of your distro choice. When you have something exotic that only you can get working...lo and behold, your needed edits work in the same place and in the same way for every distro. This also could/would/should lead to more awesome-wicked games and such. Like it or not; solitaire and firefox are not selling OS's or the latest and greatest CPU. Call of Duty, Flight Sim, (I'm too old to name the latest and greatest...lol) are.

    More hand holding of the users. I hear your collective groan, me too. Let's face it, not everyone wants to know why this thingy works or how it does. "When I plugged it in, a window popped up, I answered a few questions and I was good to go!" I don't want to take away users level control or OS transparency - just make baby-talk available for those who want it.

    Then whats left for the packagers? User space is still wildly variable. Desktop managers and their associated tools still leave lots of room for growth and so on. Lots of choice in the desktop/window manager area; KDE, Gnome, Enlightenment, all the lightweight choices - more in the future no doubt.

    I think some of what I'd like to see is happening from both directions. Linux is getting more and more user friendly at the base line and windows is getting more stable.

    I just want it all dammit!

    Please Read Me

    #2
    Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

    Well, in Linux, there is a core, which is the kernel. It is (rigidly) controlled by Linus himself. But I understand what you mean by 'core system' - I've stated a need for such myself. That this will become a reality, is I think, wishful thinking. There is way to much individuality driving distro development. If however, such a 'core system' could be agreed on by all, well then...
    Windows no longer obstructs my view.
    Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

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      #3
      Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

      Isn't this what LSB was for?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base
      FKA: tanderson

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

        LSB is a good start but but we haven't seen much change yet.

        I'd like to see some real basic commonality, like file locations and naming schemes to be uniform.

        You can validly argue about the benefits to .deb vs. .rpm and many other things but, for example: I can think of no valid reason to have network interface definitions in a different place for every distro or for one distro to have a single interfaces file and another to have 5 or 6 for each interface. Neither scheme seems "better" than the other, just different. The only reason I can think of is developer whim.

        That's the beginning of the stuff I'd like to see done differently. After 15 years I've figured out that I'm going to have to search for virtually everything when I try a new distro, but why? I think this is one of those things that makes it more difficult for the new users to get proficient with linux.


        Please Read Me

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

          Curiously enough, I too started with Mandrake at about the same time as the O.P.. I switched to Debian shortly before Mandrake became Mandriva because
          I GOT SICK AND TIRED OF DEPENDENCY HELL !!!
          which is the major drawback with the RPM system, and hence, with the (so-called)"Linux Standard Base". I switched from Debian Sid to Kubuntu Breezy, because it combined the ".deb" packaging system with frequent, scheduled releases (unlike Debian), and it featured KDE, (I have never liked the "look and feel" of Gnome).

          Personally, I am delighted by the plethora of choices represented by the variety of Linux distributions that are available. If I ever get tired of Kubuntu, I'll look over the plethora of available distros out there and choose one that seems more suitable to my personal preferences. I'm more than willing to help new users get used to Linux, but I'm absolutely opposed to transforming Linux in order to gain a few more users. That said, I agree that a certain amount of commonality in file locations and naming schemes would be welcome. Unfortunately, I doubt that it will ever happen.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

            I agree askrieger - I have found deb to be way better. It irked me to see the LSB selected rpm. I wonder what the logic was...none of them used debian

            My desire to get more users to linux is a selfish one: more users = more development = more options. The reason this doesn't apply to windows is the OS itself is the profit stream. A totally free of cost but better functioning OS that the average (or even less-than-average) user can truly use could result in a profit model for manufacturers and developers that's actually better than the current M$ one.

            My thought process is: If the numbers of uses of linux increased to at least on par with windows, hardware manufacturers could afford to and indeed would HAVE to drop their exclusive agreements with M$. The same for software.

            We'd see more software with commercial support and maybe I could stream Netflix to my linux box without virtualbox and windows and my son could stop dual booting to play his games.

            Additionally - I don't see how any of this would cause the free-ness of linux to change. In fact - it might open up more free development of the OS. What if nvidia, ati, blizzard, ubisoft - and a dozen others threw some money into the development of linux so they could sell more of their products?

            I'm not someone committed to license free software only so I'm not bothered by the idea that nvidia should own their drivers. But if they had 50-60% of their customers using linux, we'd have better drivers and utilities (maybe!).

            Nothing in this should cause the "little" guys to stop working on their own releases and tools and I too like to have choices. I just don't think variations that have no actual functional benefit are necessary or helpful and they can cause unnecessary obfuscation.

            Unfortunately, I too doubt that much of this will ever happen.

            Please Read Me

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

              If there was just a standard format be it .deb (my preference as well) or rpm and a standard installation tool, soon the number of Linux users would skyrocket. People don't wanna mess with it because
              1- they can't get decent drivers for their hardware. Hardware companies will not spend time and money producing a dozen different drivers for for an operating system that only 5% of people use. Make it universal for all distros and maybe they will make some decent drivers.

              2- The software they like is not available for Linux. There's good alternatives that will do the job, but that means relearning programs that have ridiculous names and sometimes hideous GUIs.

              3- Games. There aren't any good ones. At least not by the younger folks standards. The games they play now wouldn't even come close to running with the mediocre (at best) video drivers we have.

              (refer to #1) It's a catch 22 and it's just because there isn't any cooperation. Hardcore Linux hackers are scared to death Linux might do something commercial and draw in a bunch of "average noobs".

              I think most of the real seasoned Linux geeks don't even want it to grow. They like their little social club. Makes 'em feel special. 8)
              Ya hear that? That's the blues callin' baby.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

                This is the $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 question, asked many times over the years but alas never answered

                I myself have been using linux and other so-called alternative OS's since 2000 and linux full time since 2002.

                One thing that should be noted, is that doing all these standardizations and the inherent lessening of choices (albeit invisible to a certain number of user), Linux ends end up becoming Microsoft or Apple.

                The main strength of Linux is the diversity we have, We already have a de-facto "Standard" linux - Ubuntu - whether anyone wants to admit that or not. But I still have the ability to have what I want, how and when I want it (Kubuntu, or whichever distro I have chosen over the years). No one can take it away or force me into something else.

                multiply this by fan and supporters of other distros (or rather other package management systems, really) and you can see why this standardized thing can never exist, fully. And shouldn't imnsho

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

                  Case in point. 8)
                  Ya hear that? That's the blues callin' baby.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

                    not really
                    The Ubuntus will bring it to the masses, while the puppies, arches, slackwares will keep the hardcore core happy

                    I am far from a hardcore geek, just a slightly advanced desktop user with no coding skills and only minor commandline experience

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

                      Originally posted by claydoh
                      I am far from a hardcore geek
                      there are not that many woman around here you can admit it.
                      FKA: tanderson

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

                        A new plan for the future?
                        I have used Opera for many years and I didn't need a forum to help me, as Opera was always rock solid. This year developers messed a few things up and Opera's forum was at once full of users, searching for help, me too.

                        I think there are too many users with problems here at the time of LTS version. Quite a lot of things that worked at earlier versions, for example sound, are broken now. So the main care of all developers should be to minimize the amount of those people with problems.

                        But developers write things like this:
                        Jonathan Riddell
                        Wed Apr 7 17:51:23 BST 2010
                        10.04 is shaping up to be a pleasingly stable release, suitable for its LTS status.
                        Time to start thinking now about what we want in 10.10. Being the release after LTS we can be much more adventurous.
                        So I don't see future very bright.
                        Kubuntu 16.04 on two computers and Kubuntu 17.04 on DELL Latitude 13

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

                          I agree with that. Too many developers worrying about the next release when they still haven't fixed the last one.
                          Ya hear that? That's the blues callin' baby.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Linux for us users - what works and what doesn't. A new plan for the future?

                            Yeah - The shear flood of people who's systems were borked by selecting "Upgrade" shows you it was released too soon or not as stable as it should have been.

                            I've haven't been over to Ubuntu forums - I wonder if they're having as many issues as some are here.

                            Please Read Me

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