PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

[oshunluvr]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

that implies that a stock Kubuntu (not using external repos) isn't suitable

I seriously can't imagine how you inferred that from my comment. ALL distros are suitable for some users or situations, and not suitable for others. I'm not into distro bashing and certainly wouldn't bash my primary distro of choice. If you were to say I implied stock Kubuntu is less suitable for a totally new linux user than PCLinuxOS is, I would agree. Heck, depending on the individual, KDE4 may be too difficult for many new users. Good old PCLinuxOS 2009 with KDE 3.5.10 was nearly problem free.

My opinion is really more about users that are totally inexperienced and the exact reasons BubbaBlues pointed out. There's a recent post on this very forum from someone who tried Kubuntu 10.04, it failed to work immediately out of the box, two posts 2 hr's apart and he's given up. I think if he had tried PCLinuxOS first - maybe he wouldn't have gone so quickly back to windows.

IMO makes PCLinuxOS the best distro for totally new converts from windows. In a sense, I'm saying PCLinuxOS is the most windows like distro. I doubt if the mods over at their forum would consider that a complement!

Currently I use:
Kubuntu 10.04 x86_64 main desktop daily
Kubuntu 9.10 x86_64 main desktop backup
HP Moblin mini
PCLinuxOS server
Ubuntu 10.04 32bit media computer
Xubuntu 9.10 x86_64 media laptop
Arch, Sayabon and openSUSE are also installed for "evaluation" purposes.

I'm not a hater of any distro, but I'm no "fanboy" either.

[claydoh]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

I didn't want to say you are a fanboi or hater or anything like that, it is quite obvious you aren't

but

and for those reasons I still steer noob's toward pclinuxos. If they try it and it works, they're unlikely to get into frustrating trouble if they stick to the pclinuxos master plan.

implies that Kubuntu's base install and repos make it maybe more frustrating than PCLoS (and I am not making a judgment call if this is true or not )

and

On the other hand - I'm here because I like to have more options and even break my system once in a while! I'm far enough along to fix it when it happens.

Could be read to say that Kubuntu is more likely to be buggier, or easier to make that way

There's a recent post on this very forum from someone who tried Kubuntu 10.04, it failed to work immediately out of the box, two posts 2 hr's apart and he's given up. I think if he had tried PCLinuxOS first - maybe he wouldn't have gone so quickly back to windows

What do you think are the differences between the 2 distros that make it this way ?

I am always on a quest for opinions on this sort of subject, I seldom get any real examples or even hard opinions, other than the ubiquitous "Kubuntu's packaging is awful" or "Kubuntu is the worst implementation out there" - all without ANY feedback as to why or how this is so, even when I ask for anything specific

[oshunluvr]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

Replying in a general way (just to be ornery ):

The key part of my belief is the "Master Plan" that they have over at PCLinuxOS and the forum. They are very rigid in what can and can't be done with "their" distro and will in very short order expel anyone who attempts to deviate or even suggests doing so.

This method has it's benefits: Primarily to prevent someone too inexperienced to know that they are likely to so something that will make their system, or a part of it, unusable. These same users are also the least likely to be able to recover from same - the source of what I called frustration.

Ironically, as one becomes more experienced and attempts to reach beyond the out-of-the-box experience and really enhance the function and form of their personal linux desktop - this "Master Plan" requires that these users leave PCLinuxOS and go elsewhere. Case in point - Me and GreyGeek. Ultimately, I believe this along with Texstar being the only person doing the developing - will eventually lead to one of the top ten distrowatch distros to disappear completely.

I am coming to the belief the the term "buggy" is over-used. I wouldn't call Kubuntu buggy at all. However, there are some parts of KDE4 that may be and grub-pc definitely is.

I think 90% or more of the "bugs" people refer to are actually configuration problems or other minor issues. Besides "bugs" are and always have been part of the process. Nothing makes me feel more satisfied than figuring out what is going wrong, fixing it, and then helping others fix theirs. That and really squeezing the maximum performance out of my distro - something that can't be done with PCLinuxOS.

As far as that other user: likely I'm wrong anyway, he may not be the best candidate to be a linux user at all. Possibly he'd never be satisfied with linux.

Personally - I think someone immersed in 20 years of M$ dogma will most often fail to see that the extra effort and time put into trouble shooting, tweaking and fine-tuning a linux install will be repaid in very short order in time saved from virus checking and repairing, increased system performance, expanded options and for many most importantly: cash in the wallet!


OK; now direct answers to your interrogation (kidding! ):

I didn't want to say you are a fanboi or hater or anything like that, it is quite obvious you aren't

Thank you for the validation

implies that Kubuntu's base install and repos make it maybe more frustrating than PCLoS

Comparing base install experiences at the level of user I am/was at the time I would say this fairly reflects my opinion. Today - I am the opposite, I am Kubuntu-Boy now because I grew frustrated at PCLinuxOS. It's simply a matter of complexity - which is not an insult. It's the equivalent of comparing a Porsche to a Chevy. The Porsche is harder to drive and more expensive to maintain, but gives much better performance and is way better looking. I would never recommend a Porsche to my grandma or to a teenager, but I am definitely a Porsche man!

Could be read to say that Kubuntu is more likely to be buggier, or easier to make that way

Actually I'M more likely to be buggy! lol I can bork an install of any distro in record time 8)

What do you think are the differences between the 2 distros that make it this way ?

I think the shear volume of options - what's the total package size of *ubuntu vs. pclos? 5000 vs. 20,000 Add to that - 64 bit availability (pclos doesn't have that option at all), dozens of developers rather than a single source, speed of availability (days for new packages for us, months for pclos), cutting edge stuff like grub-pc, I'm sure I could think of a few more.

I am always on a quest for opinions on this sort of subject, I seldom get any real examples or even hard opinions, other than the ubiquitous "Kubuntu's packaging is awful" or "Kubuntu is the worst implementation out there" - all without ANY feedback as to why or how this is so, even when I ask for anything specific

This is universally frustrating, trying to extract real information from the somewhat uninformed is tough, but an example of the reasoning behind my opinion.

[Snowhog]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

I think 90% or more of the "bugs" people refer to are actually configuration problems or other minor issues. Besides "bugs" are and always have been part of the process. Nothing makes me feel more satisfied than figuring out what is going wrong, fixing it, and then helping others fix theirs. That and really squeezing the maximum performance out of my distro - something that can't be done with PCLinuxOS.

I agree. It has been my belief that the vast majority of 'issues' people come here with can, and are, almost entirely due to not having prepared properly for the move to Linux. Preparation means knowing what you have in the way of hardware (it's surprising to me how many don't know what they have inside of their PCs, but not surprising given that Windows doesn't require you to), and then doing just a bit of research to find if that hardware is going to be 'out-of-the-box' compatible with the Linux distro to be installed, or will require some work on the part of the user to get it to work, or won't work at all.

If a user has the expectation of "Install, turn on, and use" without any issues, having done none of the preparation work, is just asking for trouble most of the time. There are exceptions of course, where the installed Linux and the hardware platform being installed on are fully compatible. What a wonderful experience one has when that is the case.

[claydoh]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

Actually, I think most of the "kubuntu is crap" comments. posts, tweets/dents are actually mainly coming from those who just need to bash *buntu, and may be a bit zealous about the distro that works best for them, as the sheer number of these type of comments can't all be from regular, new users imo. Probably still fallout from 8.10 and the initial offering of KDE 4.0 as the DE.

you so far are the ONLY one who has ever responded to this question from me that i can remember (and well sorted out at that! ), so it is hard to figure out the experience level of those commenting negatively about Kubuntu out there in the wild.

No more interrogations, I promise

[oshunluvr]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

Another hugely common mis-conception or maybe just huge difference in windows world vs. the linux one is the belief that someone out there "owes" me an explanation and a fix for my problem.

Never mind that I got this distro for FREE and I haven't paid anyone for anything -

Here's a great example: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...24.0;topicseen

The OP finishes with "there should be documentation somewhere to that effect." The most polite comment I could make is "Why don't you write some?" which would no doubt result in raging reply about my "attack" so I simply opt to remain silent.

It always amazes me that the expectation that someone would stoop low enough to do their own research and then demean themselves to posting what they've discovered and what the exact details of their issue are is so often met with such shock.

Almost every time I've suggested that someone do just that - no matter how I phrase it - the reply ranges from whining to venomous.

These people have no clue that they are their own worst enemies. I guess there are a**holes everywhere...

[GreyGeek]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

.....
I am coming to the belief the the term "buggy" is over-used. I wouldn't call Kubuntu buggy at all. However, there are some parts of KDE4 that may be and grub-pc definitely is.
...

Agree, neither would I, yes, and yes.

My only annoyance right now is that the left half of my panel turns black (Oxygen) even though I have Air as my Desktop theme. When I log in I take a second to change the panel theme to the opposite theme. Doesn't matter which theme is set, the left side of the panel always starts out Oxygen (Black). If the setting is Air I change it to Oxygen, if it is Oxygen I change it to Air. When I click the apply button the left side of the panel assumes an "Air" configuration.

But, GRUB2. Grub2 is a definite pain in the neck. Grub was better. At least it was MUCH easier to configure. All one had to do was edit a single file and arrange things the way you wanted them for the menu order you wanted.

While we're on the topic of "automatic" configuration tools .... I didn't mind HAL. When it worked it worked GREAT, and I suspect that it worked GREAT for the vast majority of Kubuntu users. Upstart appears to be very good too, for those with hardware it recognizes ... which is, again, the vast majority of Kubuntu users. BUT .... IF there is one tool Kubuntu sorely needs, it is a Sysadmin tool similar to that in PCLinuxOS or Mandriva. Systemsetting is fairly good for the KDE4 desktop, but it is not designed to do a good job of helping Upstart out when it can't properly configure the video or display, keyboard, mouse, IR, Scanner, printer, wireless, network, samba, services, etc... That's the GREAT VOID in Kubuntu.

[oshunluvr]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

The other pclinuxos tool I miss is diskdrake - actually a mandrake tool. Great partition manager.

[BubbaBlues]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

Yep, PCLOS on one of my puters and Kubuntu on the other one. I consider that the best of both worlds. 8)