PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

[oshunluvr]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

Their theory is good: If you install outside the repo; you will have a greater chance of messing up your system.

But their practice is VERY heavy handed: If you install from outside the repo; don't mention it, don't ask for help, and NEVER give anyone advice on how to do it, or you will be punished!

But hey - the forum "belongs" to those who run it and that's the way it runs. I used to be a regular poster there, but when another USER - not mod - threatened me because I mentioned in a post that I also use (k)ubuntu, I'd had enough Nazi/Fascist/Cult treatment so I deleted my account. Frankly, I think there are less than 20 real knowledgeable regular posters there and the rest are the total noobs that really need the help.

I still always recommend PCLinuxOS to beginner users because it's very stable, and the forums users (as long as you follow their Mantra) are generally knowledgeable and helpful. However, as pointed out by GreyGeek - their software base is small and I wanted more usability out of my computer than PCLinuxOS by itself can offer.

I'm no expert but I think the RPM packaging is a big reason why they're held back. The only "allowed" way to install anything according to the forum cult is to request a package build from the mods.

IMO: As long as the forums are locked down the way they are and 90% of the software base depends on one person - the distro will never be more than a beginners distro, regardless of it's performance.

I still have it installed on two of my systems, but I know I have no chance of getting help over "there."

[GreyGeek]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

GG please can you describe how you actually measure your frame rate. I saw somewhere that you don't think the rates given by running glxgears actually measure any real property. You mentioned using Stellarium if I remember correctly. My current box (using Radeon HD 3650 card) clocks 13,000 in 5 seconds with 3D effects turned on; what would that be using your more accurate frame rate measure? - which presumably Phoronix used in their tests.

I'd just like to know how to get the real number!

Thanks for any pointers.

Glxgears gives me 2300 +- 100 "fps" with the default window. Stellarium gives me 30 fps, on the average (zooming in and out from the stars will change it). SecondLife gives me a sim fps of 44 +-5, which is relatively stable regardless of what I am doing on the screen. So is the "physics fps". The basic fps can vary wildly depending on what I am doing. TuxRacer gives me a fps of around 27 +- 5.

glxgears gives a "frame rate" which is proportional to the size of the window with the spinning gears or box. The bigger the size the slower the rate. So, to "standardize" it you can either make it as small as possible, which is what I did, or you can maximize it. However, that makes it only a relative rate, and not one anyone with a different window geometry or bit setting can duplicate, so comparisons are pointless.

Stellarium measures video frames per second for you whole screen, and folks with the same hardware, video drivers and window geometry (like 1600 X 900 - like mine) will show the same FPS on the option panel at the bottom.

Another GOOD fps measure is SecondLife's Linux client. There are three measures for FPS in the "Statistic Bar": basic, sim, and physics. The basic, at the top, fluctuates rapidly as the view is turned and various prims are drawn or redrawn. It can vary from 0 - 5 fps for slow video drivers, 5 - 10 for medium video drivers, and > 10 for fast video drivers. When you aren't moving your view it will idle at less than 5 fps regardless of your speed. For good video drivers (for SecondLife) the fps can climb to between 20 and 30. High end video drivers can give 40+ fps, IF you have the bandwidth to pull down the info. A lot of people with good cards have mediocre bandwidths and can't move or rotate any faster than folks with mediocre cards and fast connections. A lot of folks don't know they can increase their Internet download cache. I keep mine at the max allowed.

The fps shown by TuxRacer doesn't vary a lot for me. Like I said... usually around 27 fps. IF your Penquin's motion (and the music) is jerky or choppy then your driver is tuned or your card isn't fast enough, or you are running a vesa hybrid which allows "some" acceleration, which was what Mandriva was giving me before I moved to Kubuntu.

[PhilT]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

GG thanks very much for that help - it was very helpful to learn how these different measures work. As suggested by "oshunluvr" a couple of days ago I tried loading Phoronix-Test-Suite but it wouldn't start!

Just for interest, on my box (Dual core 64bit Intel; 4 GB ram; ATI Radeon HD 3650):
1. in my Karmic setup (using proprietary ATI driver with compositing turned ON) I get 13,600 frames per 5 seconds with glxgears but this reduces to 18 to 59 fps in Stellarium (depending upon zoom, etc).
2. in my Lucid setup (out of the box - no ATI specific driver), with compositing ON, glxgears gives 6700 frames per 5 seconds; Stellarium still gives 18 fps though!

Weird how these various graphicd setups change some things but not others.

[GreyGeek]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

.....
Just for interest, on my box (Dual core 64bit Intel; 4 GB ram; ATI Radeon HD 3650):
1. in my Karmic setup (using proprietary ATI driver with compositing turned ON) I get 13,600 frames per 5 seconds with glxgears but this reduces to 18 to 59 fps in Stellarium (depending upon zoom, etc).
2. in my Lucid setup (out of the box - no ATI specific driver), with compositing ON, glxgears gives 6700 frames per 5 seconds; Stellarium still gives 18 fps though!
...

Ya, glxgears isn't trustworthy. I ignore it. Stellarium should still give you between 18 and 59 fps, though.

[oshunluvr]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

Your results seem normal (whatever that is!)

Composting should have a big impact on GLXGears, where stellirium wouldn't really need to max out gl.

My system (see sig for details):

glxgears 34,XXX per 5 secs

stellarium doesn't run in karmic for me -

extreme tux racer shows 250-265 fps

[GreyGeek]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2



WOW! 250 fps in tux racer! Your fps are 10X mine. (I don't see an emoticon for envy)...

You must have a gamer video chip in that box!

[Snowhog]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog XXX Edition

[GreyGeek]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

If I "could" plug that baby into my Sony VAIO VGN-FW140E notebook it would probably raise my power consumption 5X and cause my CPU to overheat and die, even at full fan!

[oshunluvr]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

You'd cause a local brown-out!

Just because I can - I have overclocked it from 670/975 to 705/1050. Above that it gets unstable.

[MoonRise]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog XXX Edition

Cool! My card is a NVIDIA GeForce 9400 GT w 1024MB memory. I thought it was kick ass, but man I'd love to see that one on my machine! I'm sure Xonotic would just fly!

[BubbaBlues]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

I have been a PCLOS user for a couple of years. And it's true. As for stability, speed and looks, it's the best I've ever seen.
The reason they don't want you going outside of their repos is because everything in the repos is tested and configured for PCLOS. RPMs from one distro seldom work well on another distro. Sometimes they don't work at all unlike .deb packages which are much more universal and much easier to find. Every software company that makes a Linux package makes it in a .deb package, because they work on almost any debian based distro. But if you want it in an rpm, you either have to wait for your distro's devs to compile it, test it and finally upload it to the repo, or compile it yourself which can be incredibly complicated. So they tell you to stick with the packages in the repos to keep people from breaking their system. However, that's one of the reasons it out performs everything else. That being said, for the average user, the speed difference really isn't that noticeable. The reason I'm using Kubuntu now is because it's the most stable and all around best Debian based system I've found with KDE 4.4.2. With a little tweaking and setting things up to my personal liking, it performs beautifully. And I have the convenience of being able to download .deb packages and install them. The one thing that you just can't do with rpm.

Life is good and I'm well pleased with Kubuntu. 8)

[GreyGeek]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

...
But if you want it in an rpm, you either have to wait for your distro's devs to compile it, test it and finally upload it to the repo, or compile it yourself which can be incredibly complicated. So they tell you to stick with the packages in the repos to keep people from breaking their system. However, that's one of the reasons it out performs everything else.
....

PCLinuxOS is a great distro but, IMO, its number one problem, just like MEPIS, is its total dependency on ONE person. That became obvious when TextStar took over a year off right after the Huston hurricane, for understandable reasons. In his absence the upgrade that was finally released was really sub par, and the bickering among those in charge was getting out of hand.

The mods at PCLinuxOS are a stickler for using ONLY repo packages, but I pretty much agree with that for most users. The only reason I didn't follow it there, or here, is because I have the skills to add or remove apps that are not in the repo without running into trouble and in the past (but not recently) I've occasionally recompiled the kernel to activate functionality. So far.

For most Kubuntu users, especially those fresh from Windows or Mac and/or without much computer admin or programming experience, using ONLY distro packages is almost an absolute rule.

[oshunluvr]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

and for those reasons I still steer noob's toward pclinuxos. If they try it and it works, they're unlikely to get into frustrating trouble if they stick to the pclinuxos master plan.

On the other hand - I'm here because I like to have more options and even break my system once in a while! I'm far enough along to fix it when it happens.

[BubbaBlues]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

I hear ya. I love tinkering and playing around with it. I'm not that skilled yet at fixing and compiling, but I've gotten
very good at re-installing and re-tweaking. I really want to learn how to package, but haven't been successful at it yet.

[claydoh]

Re: PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE 4.4.1 Beta 2

and for those reasons I still steer noob's toward pclinuxos. If they try it and it works, they're unlikely to get into frustrating trouble if they stick to the pclinuxos master plan.

On the other hand - I'm here because I like to have more options and even break my system once in a while! I'm far enough along to fix it when it happens.

that implies that a stock Kubuntu (not using external repos) isn't suitable