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    Creative lying

    I read in the news this morning that the Sargent-of-Arms of the Senate was recommending that the Senators "stay away" from the DrudgeReport site because, it claimed, DrudgeReport (and Whitepages.com) was the source of viruses infecting the Senate computers.

    Curious, I checked to see what DrudgeReport was using for their servers... it was Linux! Apparently, after Sen Inhofe asked for proof of this claim, the Sargent-of-Arms backed down from its claim about the Drudge Report on late Tuesday afternoon when it sent out a follow-up email warning about viruses that made no mention of Drudge.

    While I was looking at DrudgeReport's uptime (currently at 133 days and over 500 days in the past) I saw a link on the left side of the page for "Longest Uptimes". With even more curiosity I clicked it and had my socks knocked off. Eighteen of the top 20 Internet servers with, if Netcraft is to be believed, the longest uptimes were running Windows. Two were running Linux. The longest was 1,712 days (4.6 years) for a Windows 2000 server. Now, I have experience running a Windows 2000 server in our LAN at work and there is NO WAY a Windows 2000 server can reach 1712 days of uptime, even if it just sat there in idle, not connected to the Internet and serving no web pages.

    I also so another link for the "Most reliable" servers and it showed that 6 out of 10 of the "most reliable" Internet servers were running Linux! Two were BSD. One was "unknown" (probably Linux). One was Windows Server 2008.

    Longest Uptimes and "most reliable" are synonymous to me. A server cannot be unreliable and have a long uptime. I know that Netcraft creatively "interprets" all of its Internet findings to favor Microsoft, like counting individually ALL of GoDaddy's thousands of PARKED Windows servers one by one, but counting Google's 5,000 IN SERVICE Linux servers as ONE, but I was amazed that they let this oversight through. Linux is more reliable but Windows has the longest uptimes?

    Having worked with Windows servers extensively and considering that MANY of the Windows patches and security updates over the last FIVE years REQUIRE reboots, either those 4.6 year uptime Windows Internet servers are NOT doing their security updates, OR, their admins are resetting the last reboot date to the install date. But, they can't lie about reliability. If a site is down it is down and that fact cannot be glossed over. Linux is famous for its reliability. Windows is famous for its unreliability, insecurity and its need for being rebooted with almost every configuration change, patch or security update.

    Netcraft has been caught with its pants down, and the Sargent-at-Arms of the Senate is slandering the most secure OS on the planet.
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

    #2
    Re: Creative lying

    Man, you got to get on board with the new speak. There is no lying in Washington it is all spin. Do you really believe this is an attack on linux? I bet the sgt of arms doesn't even know what linux is...or windows for that matter. He is just trying to discredit the drudge report and you trying to spin this into an attack on linux is disingenuous at best.
    FKA: tanderson

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      #3
      Re: Creative lying

      I take it you've never read "The Highly Reliable Times"?

      EDIT: BTW, I never wrote that the report of viruses coming from Drudge Report was an attack on Linux. It was while researching that claim that I noticed the uptimes and reliability incongruity, which is what I wrote about.

      As far as Linux being attacked "indirectly", the "Highly Reliable Times" was an ad I first saw on LinuxToday. Placed by Microsoft, it was a claim that the London Stock Exchange "chose Windows/.NET over Linux" and, amazingly, for the very features Microsoft claimed that .NET was better than Linux for; speed and reliability. When, on September 8, 2008, the .NET trading system written by Microsoft and one of its partners for the LSE CRASHED, costing the LSE over $1 Billion US, it highlighted just how bogus the Microsoft PR FUD was. In time trials the best the .NET system could reach was slightly over 5 ms/transaction. MS claimed it would reach 2.0 ms/transaction. An existing Linux trading system had been runnning at 1.9 ms/transaction for five years before the .NET system was written.

      The facts are that Linux was NEVER in contention for the LSE contract. The LSE had hired a CTO who knew only Windows and made that recommendation before the bids were let, so MS/.NET was a shoo in. After the crash that CTO was fired, the .NET trading system is being phased out, and the LSE BOUGHT the company that wrote the Linux trading system, which they are now in the process of switching over to.

      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Creative lying

        Originally posted by GreyGeek
        The longest was 1,712 days (4.6 years) for a Windows 2000 server.
        I don't see how that's possible. You get updates pushed down from M$ every few weeks which usually require a restart and, at least on some systems, can sometimes force a restart. Even though 2000 was a vast improvement over the 9x series in terms of stability and reliability, I've never had a Windows computer run for more than a couple weeks before requiring a restart just to maintain performance.
        Welcome newbies!
        Verify the ISO
        Kubuntu's documentation

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Creative lying

          Also, if you look at the FAQ on the netcraft site http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html, the following operating systems are not included in their list because they do not provide uptime info (or netcraft is unable to get them)

          Operating systems that do not provide uptime information include;

          * AIX
          * AS/400
          * Compaq Tru64
          * DG/UX
          * Linux before kernel version 2.1
          * Linux on Alpha and IA64 processors
          * Linux on Intel x86 processor from kernel version 2.5.25 (see below)
          * MacOS
          * MacOSX
          * NT3/Windows 95
          * NT4/Windows 98
          * NetBSD/OpenBSD
          * NetWare
          * OS/2
          * OS/390
          * SCO UNIX
          * SunOS 4
          * VM

          Why do you not report uptimes for Linux 2.6 or FreeBSD 6 ?

          We only report uptimes for systems where the operating system's timer runs at 100Hz or less. Because the TCP code only uses the low 32 bits of the timer, if the timer runs at say 1000Hz, the value wraps around every 49.7 days (whereas at 100Hz it wraps after 497 days). As there are large numbers of systems which have a higher uptime than this, it is not possible to report accurate uptimes for these systems.

          The Linux kernel switched to a higher internal timer rate at kernel version 2.5.26. Linux 2.4 used a rate of 100Hz. Linux 2.6 used a timer at 1000Hz (some architectures were using 1000Hz before this), until the default was changed back to 250Hz in May 2006. (An explanation of the HZ setting in Linux.)

          FreeBSD versions 4 and 5 used a 100Hz timer, but FreeBSD 6 has moved to a customisable timer with a default setting of 1000Hz.

          So unfortunately this means that we cannot give reliable uptime figures for many Linux and FreeBSD servers.
          (Highlighting is mine, not theirs)

          So the top 10 / top 50 list is pretty meaningless seeing that does not include any recent linux/bsd/unix kernels

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Creative lying

            BTW, isn't this forum server based on Windows? Was that the reason for it being unavailable about 2 days ago?
            Multibooting: Kubuntu Noble 24.04
            Before: Jammy 22.04, Focal 20.04, Precise 12.04 Xenial 16.04 and Bionic 18.04
            Win XP, 7 & 10 sadly
            Using Linux since June, 2008

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Creative lying

              Originally posted by kyonides
              BTW, isn't this forum server based on Windows? Was that the reason for it being unavailable about 2 days ago?
              It is, but Windows wasn't down, the software was. (I could ping the IP address with 50 ms return times).

              But, a benefactor is paying for the service which hosts this forum, and a gift is a gift. Anyone want to pick up the costs of supporting this forum on a Linux hosting service? If so, step right up...
              "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
              – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Creative lying

                Originally posted by GreyGeek
                But, a benefactor is paying for the service which hosts this forum, and a gift is a gift.
                +1,000

                It's been said so many times here in KFN, but seems to need repeating: Open Source pays out of his own pocket, the entire cost of keeping KFN availabe for everyone. He asks for no membership fees. When new equipment is required, he pays for it. When the hosting service raises their fees, he pays for it. He, and only he, decides which Hosting Service to use.

                When we have no scratch in the game, we don't get to call the plays.
                Windows no longer obstructs my view.
                Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
                "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Creative lying

                  No, Snowhog, there was no need to remind us about who finances the forum from his own pocket. I just wanted to see if Windows had something to do with the problem the forum had that day or not. If the ping'ing worked then I guess it wasn't the problem, maybe it was just a programmed maintenance shutdown and nothing more. Since it wasn't related to an OS problem, I also think no data was lost during the downtime. At least that what I hope.

                  Who said there aren't people like me who thank that guy for being such a nice guy with all of us by making all of these things possible, like discussing how to solve OS / hardware issues or get warnings about what might happen in the Linux community in general, for the humble KDE community fork that believes in a project like Kubuntu?
                  Multibooting: Kubuntu Noble 24.04
                  Before: Jammy 22.04, Focal 20.04, Precise 12.04 Xenial 16.04 and Bionic 18.04
                  Win XP, 7 & 10 sadly
                  Using Linux since June, 2008

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Creative lying

                    My apologies for responding with a 'thin skinned' commentary concerning the question. I should (and do) know better.
                    Windows no longer obstructs my view.
                    Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
                    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Creative lying

                      Originally posted by Telengard
                      Originally posted by GreyGeek
                      The longest was 1,712 days (4.6 years) for a Windows 2000 server.
                      I don't see how that's possible. You get updates pushed down from M$ every few weeks which usually require a restart and, at least on some systems, can sometimes force a restart. Even though 2000 was a vast improvement over the 9x series in terms of stability and reliability, I've never had a Windows computer run for more than a couple weeks before requiring a restart just to maintain performance.
                      Out of curiosity I needed to check mine tonight... 100 days! Why isn't there a better thread on this :P :P

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Creative lying

                        Is there a way for those of us who are extremely grateful for this forum to donate funds to help Open Source defray the cost of the benefit we all receive.

                        I'd be very happy to chip in a regular contribution because I am so pleased to have this resource available.

                        In my mind OS typifies the Open Source ethic of "mutual help" as opposed to the proprietry ethic of "screwing whoever you can". We all do what we can to promote and help the linux community but sometimes some money may be useful to assist the benefactor, wouldn't it!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Creative lying

                          Is there a way for those of us who are extremely grateful for this forum to donate funds to help Open Source defray the cost of the benefit we all receive.
                          I concur, why not put the question here:
                          http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?board=9.0
                          HP Pavilion dv6 core i7 (Main)
                          4 GB Ram
                          Kubuntu 18.10

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Creative lying

                            Originally posted by GreyGeek
                            Curious, I checked to see what DrudgeReport was using for their servers... it was Linux! Apparently, after Sen Inhofe asked for proof of this claim, the Sargent-of-Arms backed down from its claim about the Drudge Report on late Tuesday afternoon when it sent out a follow-up email warning about viruses that made no mention of Drudge.
                            It is common knowledge that you don't have to be running a Windows server to serve a Windows virus to a Windows client. That is one of the reasons why it is strongly recommended to run AV on Linux servers serving Windows clients.
                            Don't blame me for being smarter than you, that's your parent's fault.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Creative lying

                              Originally posted by zlow
                              Originally posted by GreyGeek
                              Curious, I checked to see what DrudgeReport was using for their servers... it was Linux! Apparently, after Sen Inhofe asked for proof of this claim, the Sargent-of-Arms backed down from its claim about the Drudge Report on late Tuesday afternoon when it sent out a follow-up email warning about viruses that made no mention of Drudge.
                              It is common knowledge that you don't have to be running a Windows server to serve a Windows virus to a Windows client. That is one of the reasons why it is strongly recommended to run AV on Linux servers serving Windows clients.
                              It may be "common knowledge" but it is not common. But, we've had this discussion before. No need to continue it.
                              "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                              – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                              Comment

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