F-Spot replacing Gimp

[GreyGeek]

Re: F-Spot replacing Gimp

Perhaps the reason to drop gimp from the standard install has more to do with the amount of free space on the LiveCD

That's the standard excuse, but it doesn't hold water. In order to include F-Spot, and run it dynamically, Ubuntu must include the MONO libraries on the LiveCD. The GTK+ library is needed and already included in order that GNOME itself can run. There is no additional space penalty for including GIMP like there is for F-Spot. GIMP is being removed to deliberately make room for the MONO libraries. F-Spot supplies the excuse.

It's a cut & dried deal:

Since the Mono stack is already a dependency of the default installation
set for many remixes of Ubuntu, including the Desktop Edition, there is
no reason to consider a dependency on Mono as an issue when suggesting
applications for the default set.

Do not be mislead by the pro MONO propaganda. The ONLY reason why GIMP is being replaced by F-Spot is to provide an excuse to REQUIRE that the MONO libraries be included on the Ubuntu LiveCD. The ONLY reason why MONO is finding a permanent space on the Ubuntu LiveCD is because corporate members of the Ubuntu Board, whose primary market is the Windows OS, want to expand their market to Linux because of the growing desktop market share Linux has generated. They have a vested interest in making sure that they can port their .NET applications to Ubuntu without the need to re-write them with a non-Microsoft API, like GTK or Qt4. These Windows-based/biased corporations haven't paid thousands of dollars to Canonical just to whisper sweet-nothings in Mark Shuttlesworth's ear, any more than lobbyists expect nothing in return for their "campaign contributions" to Washington politicians.

Perusing the MONO dev pages reveals a long range plan to replace GTK in GNOME with MONO. In order to do that MONO needed a set of GUI APIs. They've been using the GUIs in the GTK+ API by creating binding which they call GTK#. Recently, many of the GUI parts of .NET which were not under the EMCA 334 & 335 have been finalized in MONO, giving it the power to create GUI dialogs and Windows WITHOUT the need to use GTK# bindings. With these "improvements" MONO developers can now create a GNOME without GTK+, thus creating a Linux desktop which is totally dependent on MONO **AND**, with the benefits of MoonLight's recent enhancements by Microsoft, even make direct calls to libc6, the current Linux API. This would, effectively, create a Linux desktop which sets on the Linux kernal and libc6 but above them is totally dependent on Microsoft's .NET API.

Take a look at my sig at the bottom of this post. Shuttlesworth made the statement. He is not blind to what making Ubuntu dependent on MONO means. The question one has to ask is "Why is he allowing this to happen?" I have two theories: he has been threatened with more legal threats than he can afford, or want, to defend. Or, in these current economical times he has decided to "monotize" Ubuntu by making it a Windows environment. If that is true expect to see a commercial Ubuntu Desktop announcement within the next year or two featuring a Windows .NET compatible desktop.

[Snowhog]

Re: F-Spot replacing Gimp

Hmm. >

What Canonical and Mark Shuttlesworth want to do with Ubuntu, openly or behind closed doors, is of course, their business. But it is a sad commentary that Ubuntu would want to climb into bed with M$ - for any reason. M$ ain't stupid. They may be ruthless, immoral, and intent on World Domination, but they ain't stupid. On their balance sheet, they obviously have more to gain than to loose in this. If it weren't so, they wouldn't be pushing this agenda. And, they are no friend to Linux. If M$ can eliminate Linux, they will, given the opportunity. M$, as a Corporation, has an egotistical, maniacal 'soul' and believes that M$ should be the only OS anyone uses. Allowing the 'little guy' to do his thing, even when it has such a negligable impact on their (M$) bottom line, doesn't matter. That the 'little guy' exists does, and the 'little guy' must either be absorbed or eliminated. It's that business ethic of M$ that defines them as 'evil' in the eyes of many, more so here in the US than elsewhere in the World.

[Telengard]

Re: F-Spot replacing Gimp

This is just about enough to make me move to another distro. I can't stand the idea of M$ getting their dirty paws all over my Linux.

Isn't there any distro which will take a stand against Mono?

[Snowhog]

Re: F-Spot replacing Gimp

So far, Kubuntu, as long as one doesn't install any Gnome apps that use or are dependent on MONO, is MONO 'free.'

[Telengard]

Re: F-Spot replacing Gimp

as long as one doesn't install any Gnome apps that use or are dependent on MONO

I use Firefox and Gimp, and would not want to be without either. How long will they remain unencumbered by mono dependencies? How long before Canonical decides to just include mono along with the Firefox and Gimp packages?

[GreyGeek]

Re: F-Spot replacing Gimp

I use Firefox and Gimp, and would not want to be without either. How long will they remain unencumbered by mono dependencies? How long before Canonical decides to just include mono along with the Firefox and Gimp packages?

The next version of GIMP does NOT include any references to MONO. GIMP is built using the GTK+ toolkit.

Support for C# was removed from the GTK+ toolkit with the 2.14 version and has not been re-added as of the 2.18 version.


Here are the languages and tools used to build FireFox. A tool called "SLOCCount" was used on the FireFox source code:

Totals grouped by language (dominant language first):
cpp: 1500839 (59.94%)
ansic: 874893 (34.94%)
asm: 34327 (1.37%)
sh: 32275 (1.29%)
perl: 30474 (1.22%)
python: 13853 (0.55%)
java: 13325 (0.53%)
objc: 1476 (0.06%)
pascal: 899 (0.04%)
cs: 453 (0.02%)
lex: 306 (0.01%)
lisp: 256 (0.01%)
php: 244 (0.01%)
yacc: 79 (0.00%)
awk: 69 (0.00%)
ada: 49 (0.00%)
csh: 38 (0.00%)
exp: 12 (0.00%)
sed: 7 (0.00%)

Microsoft has released a .NET add-on support for FireFox, as Wikipedia documents:

.Net Framework 3.5 Service Pack 1

In February 2009, Microsoft released Service Pack 1 for version 3.5 of the .NET Framework. This update also installed Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant add-on (enabling ClickOnce support). The update received a moderate amount of media attention after users discovered that the add-on could not be uninstalled through the add-ons interface. Several hours after the website Annoyances.org posted an article regarding this update, Microsoft employee Brad Abrams posted in his blog Microsoft's explanation for why the add-on was installed, and also included detailed instructions on how to remove it.

On 16 October 2009, Mozilla blocked all versions of Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant from being used with Firefox and from the Mozilla Add-ons service. Two days later, the add-on was removed from the blocklist after confirmation from Microsoft that it is not a vector for vulnerabilities. The latest version of the Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant (version 1.1, released on 10 June 2009 to the Mozilla Add-ons service) allows the user to disable and uninstall in the normal fashion.

So, Windows users have the ability to remove .NET links to FireFox and Linux users don't have to worry about MONO.

In short, I don't believe that MONO will infect the GTK+ toolkit because C# support has already been removed. FireFox doesn't need MONO or .NET and isn't built using either. GIMP is built using the Gimp Tool Kit (GTK+), which we see has already removed C# from its support. So, all three are safe from MONO and Microsoft.

As long as I can use "sudo apt-get remove libmono*" and it doesn't affect the operation of KDE4, then I will continue to use Kubuntu.