The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

[arochester]

I bought a nice little laptop, a Dell C400, an P3, on ebay for £32 (about $50 USD) . It had 256Mb of RAM and no hard drive. I put in a 40Gb hard drive that I had and Linux. A good machine. Nearly silent.

When people have seen this laptop and heard how much it cost there reaction has been "Get me one!"

My eldest daughter teaches English and uses a whiteboard for Powerpoint presentations. OpenOffice? No, she wants Windows...

My sister-in-law works for the Ambulance Service and brings work home. She wants Windows...

Teachers at my wife's primary school want them for their children - with Windows...

Looking at ebay for a while I see that a similar laptop with a 20Gb hard drive and Windows can be about £77 (about $125 USD). For the extra £45 I could buy a NEW 120Gb hard drive.

ebay?
1) Is it even legal to sell a computer with Windows installed?
2) Are they legitimate installs or illegitimate? Will Microsoft say "Not genuine."
3) Even if the computer has a Product Key sticker how many (re)installs have there been and when will it become useless?

...Maybe I should just say "No!"

[Detonate]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

See paragraph 13:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/eula/home.mspx

[arochester]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

Well I see it, but whether I understand it is another thing.

"This transfer must include all of the Software (including all component parts, the media and printed materials, any upgrades, this EULA, and, if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity)"

All the end user gets is a computer with Windows on it.

Buyer beware? Too much of a risK?

[Telengard]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

The only way to be sure is to purchase a new Windows license for ever computer you buy on eBay. You would have to be a lawyer to fully understand those things.

[askrieger]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

The risk is not that M$ will sue you, the risk is that you can't get security upgrades for a program that almost certainly needs them. Not to mention the general risk of standing in front of the biggest, slowest moving, most profitable target in the world.

But, you're getting a cheap computer. As long as your family and friends don't put anything of importance (e.g. a password for a commercial site, a bank account number, etc.) on the computer it's a bargain. Personally, I wouldn't take the chance, but I'm the kind of paranoid wacko who uses Linux!

[Telengard]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

The risk is not that M$ will sue you, the risk is that you can't get security upgrades for a program that almost certainly needs them.

What about people who have a conscience which compels them to honor their obligations under the license, presumably most honest users? No matter how you rationalize you can not escape the fact that using the software means you have to confront the terms of the agreement.

Thinking about this stuff gives me headaches. It is one of my biggest reasons to avoid Windows.

[Qqmike]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

"Thinking about this stuff gives me headaches. It is one of my biggest reasons to avoid Windows."

Isn't that the truth.

In addition, if you get Windows installed without the Windows CD, complete OS backups becomes even more important than usual. And, now and then, there are things for which you are asked to insert the CD (e.g., scannow).

[GreyGeek]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

Several charitable organizations were taking old computers with Windows on them and "refurbished" Windows --- cleaned off the previous user's data and all application except that that came with Windows. Then they gave the computers to the poor at NO COST to them.

Even though the charities gave the reconditioned computers away for free, Microsoft sued them for violation of the EULA and in the settlements required that the charities pay $100 for a Windows license for EACH computer they gave away. That's a license fee to run the installation of Windows that was already on the computer.

They took a lot of heat for that but I haven't followed those cases to see if things changed.

More than likely that GUID of that copy of Windows has been linked to the previous owner. When Microsoft's compliance checking programs see that the GUID is now linked to another person by a different name and address, and they have no license on file for that GUID for that person, they will probably send the new owner a letter, or let the BSA do it.

[Detonate]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

In recent years, OEM's such as Dell, HP, and Sony stopped shipping the CD's with the computer. They have instructions on how to create your own OS CD. I can't tell you the number of times I have worked on computers that the owners never did this. A real PITA. Now the truth is, if you buy a used computer with Windows already installed, if you don't change anything that would affect the registration, such as changing the owner name and such, you will probably be able to continue to use that computer and get all the updates.. Of course this is not legal.

[Detonate]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

Yes, I volunteer as the Technology Coordinator for the AARP Tax Assistance Program here in my community. I gave away 7 old laptops last year. I had to completely remove XP from them. Of course I did not want to recipients to not have any OS, so I loaded Hardy on them. These computers went to old folks who can't afford a computer.

[Telengard]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

Several charitable organizations were taking old computers with Windows on them and "refurbished" Windows --- cleaned off the previous user's data and all application except that that came with Windows. Then they gave the computers to the poor at NO COST to them.

I used to do exactly that at a local charity organization. The work was personally rewarding, but eventually I found myself struggling against the moral issues. We could not afford to purchase licenses for all those computers, so eventually I just stopped. It is a shame, because the people getting those computers were using them to earn GEDs and take college classes.

[askrieger]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

@Telengard: If I seem to have contempt for the American legal system, particularly as it applies to patents and copyrights, and specifically as it relates to how some companies (e.g. M$) use it in what I regard as morally reprehensible ways to maintain a near monopoly position, I do. Note that I use the terms M$ and windoze rather than including the obligatory (TM) after the registered trademarks that I am NOT violating.

I run three active computers, so that I might offer support (when I can) to users of the current, previous, and LTS versions of Kubuntu. None of my computers has windoze installed. In one case, I had to deliberately remove a copy of windoze (that I had not ordered or paid for) that had been installed on my computer during a repair. Do I feel that I am a moral person, I do. Although your opinion might differ.

You may note that I was not advocating running a pirated copy of windoze, I was pointing out one of the many reasons not to run that OS at all.

[GreyGeek]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

.... These computers went to old folks who can't afford a computer.

Most of the gratis installs I do are for retired folks, or those on welfare, who cannot afford to upgrade windows or pay for an anti-virus app (that doesn't work anyway). So, with Linux, they don't have to worry about expensive upgrades or AV products, or expensive service calls.

BTW, a computer and an Internet connection isn't a luxury any more, they are a necessity, the first rung on the latter out of poverty. A browser is the only practical way to search for jobs, even local ones, or to put your resume up for prospective employees.

That's why I believe that the Internet should be a public utility, not run for profit but for maximum speed and available to all at a minimal price. IF, 15 years ago, the cable and telcos had done what they agreed to do, and for which Congress paid them $200 BiLLION in advance, we would already have fiber optic cable Internet infrastructure that would be giving users 10 Gb or more bandwidth, not 10Mb, and for $15/month. I currently pay $72/mo for 10Mb bandwidth.

[MoonRise]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

Yep! I have to deal with that M$ License Crap at work. Actually had to buy new copies of XP because I really couldn't "trust" the place we bought the PCs. One company even had the audacity to say "COA? What is that? Oh, we just throw those away, they aren't important." Yeah, right! They know what they are doing. Having to deal with M$ licensing really is the pits. One reason why I've dumped M$ from my systems @ home. Who needs the headache?

[sithlord48]

Re: The cost of used Microsoft Windows on ebay

the cost of MS is not just money it will cost you at times you sanity.