Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"I Quit"

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    "I Quit"

    That was the lead in a rant by Andrew Wyatt, a.k.a. "Fewt", on his blog.
    Wyatt wrote a pair of system tray utilities for the EeeUbuntu distro, designed to run on Eeepcs, but which mimicked Windows. How ever, that doesn't stop most of the reports from suggesting the EeeUbuntu itself is in trouble. They never bothered to check that Wyatt joined EeeBuntu only 7 months ago, mainly to support his two applications. Here is what I tried to post on his blog, but it was too big.


    Fewt,
    Is it a case of too much too soon? Or, are there other reasons?

    I noticed that you joined the EeeUbuntu forum on March 12, 2009, and since then have made a total of 856 posts, mostly dealing with the two utilities you wrote to work on EeePCs running Eeeubuntu.

    On July 30, 2009 you post a message at the EeeUbuntu forum asking for additional testers, hoping to get 150-200. That is ONLY two and 1/2 months ago!

    In the current comments GruMaster suggested that you should post your bugs to the Launchpad bugzilla. You counter with a msg in which you "prove" that posting bugs at Lauchpad is not worth the effort. Yet, even though you registered with Launchpad on April 7, 2009, you made casual comments on ONLY TWO bugs and did NOT actually report any of the numerous bugs you claimed have hindered your progress. I find this very confusing because I run Kubuntu 9.04 and 9.10, and I have played with Ubuntu. When ever anything crashes on my Karmic beta installation it AUTOMATICALLY generates and sends a report to Lauchpad. While most of the reports my Karmic sends off are redundant, but some have been "first" reports. Surely you should have several first reports in such an esoteric area as a system tray utility if you are having such a bad time with Ubuntu/Eeubuntu. Or, you could have added comments to other posts in which you could have included significant technical information which would help the developers to isolate and identify the bug. You didn't. Why not? Surely when you registered on Launchpad you believed that reporting bugs there was useful, yet you report none and claim many in your rant.

    Regardless, as an "IT Pro focusing on Architecture, Engineering, and Automation. Builder of enterprise solutions. OSS Guy, Ubuntu & Perl geek, RedHat Certified Engineer" I find it amazing that you would expect bug fixing to work any faster than it does. You KNOW that Linux developers get very little support, if at all, from hardware vendors and most of their work is by reverse engineering and analysis. Whines don't make it into Launchpad and, as you should know, developers don't have time to scour the thousands of blogs trying to pick useful information from whines and rants. Even Intel's GM45 support was only the first release, on June 16, 2008, of the tarball, which didn't work well on a large number of laptops and notebooks which use that chip, and which Linux developers at xorg had to pour over and experiment on with no additional help from Intel. Not even data sheets on the chip, which would have been VERY helpful. Ever wonder why vendors won't give Linux developers data sheets? Don't you think having data sheets could shorten debugging time significantly?

    Maybe you were confused by your past experience writing software for Windows, where proprietary vendors supply binaries and libraries tuned to Windows and you merely tap into the API documentation for their binaries and libraries, which makes writing EEEPC utilities easier. Two and 1/2 months is hardly enough time to write, test and debug software for which Linux developers cannot access API documents for proprietary binaries and libraries.

    The website, Icronic, in reporting on your "I Quit" story, states that you are a "major" EeeUbuntu developer. Using your whine, Icronic attempts to build a case that "While not claiming Linux itself is doomed, he [YOU] paints a grim picture for the development of Ubuntu. It was, after all, supposed to be “the one” that brought Linux to the mainstream consumer desktop." And, to top that off, you write "Maybe I should buy a copy of Windows 7, I hear that it actually works. How can we expect non-technical users to use this pile of garbage that is ‘Linux’?”" They quote you on that, too. The 10 comments to the article didn't chime in. Most comments suggest that you were either a "noob", tried too much too quickly, or thought that mimicking a Windows utility was lame.


    However, not satisfied with slandering Ubuntu, you slime Linux in its entirety with your accusations. The fact is that Ubuntu is a MAJOR competitor to Win7, which is being released in a couple weeks. It is also a fact that you arrived onto the scene less than a year ago, established some early credibility, but began only on the first of August to enroll a sufficient number of testers, and then after a mere 2 1/2 months of testing and debugging post your "I Quit" rant.

    Your timing, your complaints and your motive are VERY suspicious.

    GreyGeek
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

    #2
    Re: "I Quite"

    Interesting. I agree. 2.5 months isn't sufficient to gather testers. One would have to actively seek. Which seems not to be the case here. Disappointing to think that this may have been a ploy from the start to make it appear legitimate to later use against Ubuntu, though nothing surprises me from the software industry these days. Sad, sad, sad.


    Note: maybe you can split this and post it to his Blog in sections?

    Comment


      #3
      Re: "I Quite"

      As usual when someone quits with an expression of frustration (i.e. "a rant"), the proper approach is to thank him for his efforts, express sympathy for his problems, and bid him farewell. So:

      @fewt: I'm sorry to learn that your efforts on behalf of the EeePC Ubuntu users seem to have been ignored and unappreciated. I agree that you cannot be held responsible for what other people say that you said. Thank you for your efforts. You will be welcome to rejoin the community in the future, if your feelings change.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: "I Quite"

        I am somewhat surprised that you found this posting and prompted so quickly. You must have been Googling (or Binging?) for responses to your rant. If you've "quit" and don't care, why keep tabs?

        I didn't write any of those articles, nor did they ask me for input before writing them. Take the inaccuracies up with them.
        And you had no clue that such inflammatory accusations would be used as fodder by those apposing the rise of Ubuntu specifically or Linux in general? For a 36 year old "IT pro" either you are extremely naive, or you did know. With all your windows experience and your exposure to the Linux user AND developer communities over the last year you knew exactly what the results of your rant would be, and your closing sentence was designed to do maximum harm.

        ... the support posts that were there are no longer,... I deleted the support threads since I am no longer supporting it, I must have missed that one. The other threads were created in Dec 2008, use thearchive.org or google cache to find them.
        You missed eight, actually, but that begs the question as to why. The wayback machine, one of my favorite research tools, didn't have any entries for "forum.eeeubuntu.org" and only four entries for "eeeubuntu.org", the last one being on March 9, 2008. You have nearly a thousand posts at the EeeUser.com forum and most of them are erased too. Your last post was a week before you "quit" and the earliest before that was on June 6th. You claim you erased the msgs because you are no longer supporting the two utilities you wrote. Your actions also destroyed the proof of the size and duration of your project, but you did not close your accounts on those websites, leaving a total posting count to suggest more. The eeeubuntu forum has only 5,000 members and one of the messages you didn't erase stated that you had 66 testers and you were asking for more.

        On the EeeUser forum a topic was posted on Jan 13, 2009, a month AFTER you claimed you started your project, but three months BEFORE you registered at Launchpad and 2 months before you joined forum.EeeUbuntu.org. In it is one of the responses you missed: "Sounds like your best option is to take it back and get the XP version. ;-)" One has to ask how many others of your responses were of a similar vein? There's nothing wrong with recommending XP if that is the best/only solution to a problem, but perhaps you erased a trend.

        With the account called "fewt", yes. My other account was created in 2005, what's your point?
        It should be obvious. All of your EeePC Utils work, and your blog, is under the pseudonym "Fewt". Lauchpad contains no entries for "Wyatt", yet you say there are other Lauchpad bug postings under another name. Hiding your software experiences under unknown pseudonyms won't be much of a resume stuffer, which lists some of your interests as Bleeding Edge Technologies . Isn't working on an OS that was alpha through most of your project, and turned beta BEFORE you "quit", "bleeding edge" enough for one with your skill set?

        That's because many of them are recently discovered.
        And you, a lvl IV sysadmin with 14 years of IT experience and 8 years of Linux experience, didn't expect that? When you put out a call for additional testers on July 30th for your two utilities did you expect that more testers would result in fewer bugs being found?

        In the first week following your July 30th cattle call the Ubuntu BugStat showed

        # Open (60088) +700 over last week
        # Critical (27) -3 over last week
        and the week after you "quit" the BugStat showed

        # Open (65376) +1140 # over last week
        # Critical (30) -5 # over last week
        An increase of 3 critical bugs in 2 and 1/2 months surely shouldn't be enough to put a "bleeding edge" enthusiast like yourself off your game. Oh, it's the additional 5,000 "Open" bugs? With your experience you should know that not every posting to a bugzilla means a real bug has been found, or that it is an original bug. Each one has to be verified During that same period confirmed bugs rose only 2,150.

        When things are ignored they expire from launchpad, for example: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu...question/56491
        You really don't have much experience with bugzillas, do you? The Janitor explained it to you: This question was expired because it remained in the 'Open' state without activity for the last 15 days. So, you weren't reporting a bug. You were making a project announcement on a bugzilla? And since no one else reported a similar "bug", or added comments to your "bug" report the Janitor cleaned it up. This is your excuse to shutdown your project and slander Ubuntu and Linux?

        Good for you, want a cookie? Your 1 system isn't the 15,000 that I had been supporting. All the technical information is available, however I don't care any longer to try to share it. People like you with your holier than thou "it works fine for me!" attitude, lets attack the source and pretend we have no problems are why it is a waste of time.
        No, thanks. 15,000 users? So you say in your "I Quit" announcement, but then you turn around and destroy all the evidence supporting the claims you NOW make and blame "0.002%" of your users whom you say complained too much about your two applications. Someone commenting on your blog pointed out that you quit because of the complaints of 0.3 users.

        Forgive me for expecting a fix for a user impacting issue within months of it posting on launchpad.
        Like 2 and 1/2 months? As an experienced "IT Pro" you should know that a lot of factors influence how long it takes to fix a CONFIRMED bug. I shouldn't have to list all them for you, but I suspect that 15,000 EeePC users having trouble with your app isn't sufficient reason to move your problems to the top of the list.

        I didn't say anything that was untrue. If I did, prove it.
        Wiping the prints off the gun? Maybe that's why you deleted the evidence.

        Yes, because my 14 years of Linux jealotry should become suspect by my one rant.
        14 years? You started working with Linux when you were 22 and Linux was only 4? But, you joined the Ubuntu forum on June 8th, 2008 and have made only 13 posts since then? Doing a Google search for "fewt" or "Andrew Wyatt" doesn't reveal a Linux advocacy that predates last December. If you have been advocating Linux it is in a stealth mode. But, I've only been using Linux for 11 years and programmed for only 40 years, before I retired a year ago. I could have missed you before last December, but I find it odd that your Linux track record (or even your windows track record) on Google is so scant before last December.

        You changed jobs in June and a month later you tried to get your project kicked into high gear and it didn't fly as high or as fast as you wanted it to because upstream didn't react the way you wanted. That's why I suggested you tried to do too much too soon.

        Quiting your project lets your user base down because most of them are not whiners, just like most Kubuntu users are not whiners. Maybe, after a cooling off period, you could start your project back up. Perhaps the upstream will be flowing more to your liking by then.

        "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
        – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: "I Quite"

          hmmmm. He deleted the entry here as well. The whole thing truly is bizarre. Why would you delete history?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: "I Quite"

            I deleted my posts to you because you aren't worth my time. I sent you all of the evidence showing just how silly you are, what you choose to do with it is your business.

            If you decide that you are grown up enough to talk shop rather than continuing to try to find new ways to attack me, let me know.

            Keep attacking me, and you are just making yourself look more like an ass.

            I consolidated my user accounts to minimize confusion with my users some months ago. I have been a member of SourceForge since Feb 11, 2000. I have been a Linux user professionally since 1995, if you haven't run into me yet, so what, you aren't that elite, no one cares.

            I joined Launchpad June 14, 2005

            If you google a little harder you can find a lot more, but you didn't dig deep enough. If you are going to trash me, please, at least put some effort into it.

            Thanks.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: "I Quite"

              Yep, the squirrel deleted the entire history here.
              An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

              Comment


                #8
                Re: "I Quite"

                Yep, the squirrel deleted the entire history here.
                IIRC, at least one other P.O.'d ex-user has done the same thing. In that case, it caused the mods a certain amount of difficulty because it disrupted some threads. That doesn't seem to be the case here, so it could be worse. Life goes on, (which it almost always does after grand gestures).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: "I Quite"

                  You can only feel so much sympathy for a person who registers on the forum for no other reason than to pour out a bucket of venom. Too bad ...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: "I Quite"

                    All I was stating was how bizarre this all is. To be called silly for an observation is disturbing. I go back to what I said first. Sad, sad, sad....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: "I Quite"

                      I don't really know much about this guy, or the issue, but I am a little embarrassed by the tone and attitude of all the core kubuntuforums contributers here... seems a bit beneath most of you.

                      Do mods here ever just close a thread so people can move on? "Community Cafe" is still supposed to be cordial. This seems to have gone well past the "friendly debate" that is usually found here.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: "I Quite"

                        Well, whatever. I'm with MoonRise in feeling how bizarre it is that he deleted his posts. Kind of leaves you shocked/dumbfounded, irrespective of the content.
                        An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: "I Quite"

                          Originally posted by kjjjjshab
                          Do mods here ever just close a thread so people can move on?
                          Yes. But not without serious consideration. Closing a thread is 'usually' done when the content of replies has gone off topic to such an extent that the original issue is no longer being addressed.
                          Windows no longer obstructs my view.
                          Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
                          "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: "I Quite"

                            my question is why this was brought here to begin with. Not agreeing/disagreeing or anything (as i personally don't care about this at all) , and this board is for this sort of thing. But why? It's a bit too un-casual, imo.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: "I Quite"

                              Originally posted by kjjjjshab
                              I don't really know much about this guy, or the issue, but I am a little embarrassed by the tone and attitude of all the core kubuntuforums contributers here... seems a bit beneath most of you.
                              Don't be embarrassed. The OP was a point-counter-point reaction to a rant which called Ubuntu and Linux garbage. If you let stuff like that float by without pointing out the flaws, bias, etc., they develop, collectively, into an Internet myth which everyone "knows" is true.

                              Building "myths" was a tactic first developed by James Plamondon, the first Microsoft Technical Evangelist, and leader of that pack of digital terrorists. In a Microsoft training document he defined and created the tactic called "The Slog" (Item #8). One of the things Plamondon asked TE's to look out for were "enemy-alliance-busting defections", of which the "I Quit" rant is classic.

                              Don't forget to read on about the "Stacked Panel", and when you do reflect on the OOXML ISO battle, and how Microsoft "won" it.

                              However, consider what "Fewt" said, on July 2, 2009, while posting as "Aivto":

                              There is no reason not to use mono. I use it all the time for cross platform development, and to write GUI apps on Linux with GTK# and it would be a shame to have it and all the great functionality it provides removed from an OS because people hate Microsoft.
                              Knowing that his two utilities were built with MONO/GTK# raises the possibility that his problems weren't Ubuntu or Linux as much as they were MONO/.NET based. It also makes one curious as to why he slammed Ubuntu, the Linux kernel and the Intel drivers but never a word against MONO.

                              The London Stock Exchange learned the hard way that even Microsoft and its partner can't write a mission critical application using .NET and they have access to the source and the original .NET coders! Just how much luck would a single programmer like Fewt have, as talented as he is, trying to create his utilities on a version of Ubuntu stuffed into an EeePC and using MONO too? It gives new light to his frustrations. It's also interesting to note that he posted his "I Quit" rant on Oct 6, 2009, deleted a lot of postings to various forums relating to his project, yet on Oct 13, 2009 he posted updated packages for his two utilities.

                              But, his view of MONO is different from mine:
                              Why I don't like MONO

                              Do mods here ever just close a thread so people can move on? "Community Cafe" is still supposed to be cordial. This seems to have gone well past the "friendly debate" that is usually found here.
                              Andrew was just venting some frustrations and apparently thought better of it and deleted his post. His "Avito" trail is MUCH longer than the "Fewt" trail, and shows an interesting history in Linux, gaming, and other things. He made some interesting posts at osopinion and even cussed a guy out for complaining! I never took any of the comments in his deleted post personally. Everyone who has ever coded for a living encounters spells like that. If you haven't you must be Linux Torvolds or you haven't coded very long.

                              I often read post by folks who claim they take the "high" road and remain neutral about various topics. It sounds high-minded and superior, but it assumes that the sides are equally matched and both opponents are ethical and moral, or are willing to compromise. Then one thinks of Chamberlain and Hitler and remembers that some sides are truly evil, and to compromise is to die. Think of Microsoft and the sale of IP to patent trolls, along with instructions on how to sue Linux users and distros. Or, think of the DRM and the DMCA, the abuse of the GPL by Microsoft and Novell (The GPL says that if you give a GPL program to someone they must have ALL of the right you were given when you recieved that program. The "agreement" between Microsoft and Novell, in which Novell agreed that Linux contained Microsoft IP and also agreed to pay Microsoft a royalty for each copy of SLES sold, included an agreement by Microsoft to not sue any FOSS coder whose contribution makes it into SLES and but leave open to law suit any FOSS coder whose code does NOT make it into SLES. That is in direct violation of the GPL.)

                              Running Windows is not the same thing as supporting Microsoft, even if one are forced to pay the Microsoft tax.

                              "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                              – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X