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    Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

    The last few days, I've been watching things pop up on the various syndication feeds and news sites I watch about Shuttleworth's sexist comments in his keynote at LinuxCon. Reading these things, I was concerned about it, but I elected to try to reserve my judgment until I could find a transcript of the keynote, or find a video to watch it.

    For those of you who missed the hubbub, I'll link you to the blog post which finally pointed me to where I could see the keynote for myself: http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009...ttlewor-1.html

    My first impression was some annoyance. As a female, and a geeky techy one at that, I have encountered a lot of the sexism that the various articles and blog entries I've seen are complaining about, so the idea that someone who is the spearhead of the distribution I use is supporting this steaming pile of dren did concern me, to make a minor understatement. The quote that seemed particularly condemning was this one:

    "How many of you guys know Till [Kamppeter]... making sure that your printer, your mom's printer, my grandma's printer just work out of the box...if we can do the same with sound, if we can do the same with wi-fi, we can do the same for various other amazing subsystems that are going to come into the kernel...if we approach this from the perspective of saying "How do we make this just awesome for end users" then we'll have less trouble explaining to girls what we actually do."
    However, the other thing I've noticed a lot of commentary on is his choice of male pronouns and to use the word "guys" instead of people quite frequently. This irritated me greatly. I am not objecting to his speech ticks and I'll address those in a minute, but these complaints made me think of the women who have done such damage to the feminist cause by contorting it in the name of trying to further it. I'm sure everyone in this forum has encountered at least one of these women... the sort that instead of striving for equality, they speak down about men, they act like they're entitled to reparations for the abuses foisted upon our foremothers (as they always b*stardize "masculine" words into a more "feminine" form), and feel that equality should only apply where it is beneficial to them, not to pesky things like jail sentences, child custody, alimony payments or military service. My perspective on feminism is one of frustration because of women like this, and this mess that was sparked by Shuttleworth's keynote is only serving to bring to the forefront why I think my own gender is part of the reason I still make less than my male coworkers who I either out perform or are at least on par with. Before I go off on more of a tangent, I'll get back to my original point.

    I did say I would address his speech ticks, so here's my take on them. I consider myself at least a little bit of a literary nerd. I grew up reading early and often, chewing through books like most kids would go through crayons and candy, and even dipping into my mother's extensive fantasy collection at a younger age than most people would have expected. My heroes are people like William Shakespeare, Neal Stephenson, Ray Bradbury, Franz Kafka, JRR Tolkien, HP Lovecraft, HG Wells, and Neil Gaiman. To say I am a little familiar with the English language, even if it is mostly the American b*stardized version of it, is probably a safe thing to say.

    With these statements sitting out there as my credentials, I will say that I am not offended by Shuttleworth's use of male pronouns and frequent use of guys were the pseudo-feminists insist he should have used words like people or team instead. Talk to an English language nerd, talk to someone who does formal writing a lot, and they will tell you it is general convention to use the male pronoun when speaking of hypothetical people instead of using the casually accepted "gender neutral" them or they. If using the male pronoun offends your gender equal "sensibilities" it is then considered more correct to use the female pronouns in their place, instead of lapsing to them and they. Some of my role play books do this quite happily, White Wolf in particular uses entirely female pronouns when speaking of their hypothetical players in the character building and game play examples. So Shuttleworth using a lot of masculine pronouns didn't bother me in the least.

    To address "guys" in particular, I will point out that in common casual conversation, particularly with those who are in their teens and twenties, it is normal for someone to use a word like guys or dude without care to what gender they are addressing. There are also lots of examples of other words that have both male and female forms where the male form is considered acceptable when addressing a mixed group or even when addressing the female alone. Watching the video, listening to him speaking, it sounded like Shuttleworth was simply trying to speak comfortably with a group of his peers. While one could debate the merits of that approach within a keynote speech at a conference, it is certainly a smaller crime than the attempts to use these speech patterns as evidence of his sexism. I'll even admit that these speech patterns are sexist, but they are not sufficient evidence of Shuttleworth's sexism, they are simply a symptom of long standing sexism within the English language.

    I am angry about Shuttleworth's implication that women are inept enough at computer usage that they require things to be dumbed down significantly in order to just tell them about it. I am angry that everything I've heard so far tells me he does not care or does not understand what he said was so wrong. I can give him the benefit of the doubt, and guess that perhaps he's partially overwhelmed by the pseudo-feminists who are not only attacking his statements that were wrong, but are also attacking minor issues that are a symptom of the language reflecting its roots in people who were very sexist.

    All that said, Shuttleworth is by far not the only sexist person within the open source community, he is probably far from the worst offender either. He just happened to have been the big money behind a project that is popular, and therefore in the focus of a large number of people. Such things get people lynched over minor things, where the raging idiot, who thinks all women should be barefoot pregnant in the kitchen, that happens to work on xyz section of the kernel, doesn't get noticed because he doesn't have any friends to start with.

    I would like for Mark Shuttleworth to realize what he said was wrong, I would like for him to apologize and learn from his mistakes... but I'm not going to jump ship on my distribution of choice because of his poor choice of words in a keynote speech at a conference I didn't even attend and wouldn't have even watched if it weren't for the drama around his poor choice of words. The other things he said in the speech were actually interesting and some of them were even useful and helpful commentary on the open source community. A lot of it seemed to be pretty words to me, but sometimes it takes someone with money and pretty words to coordinate enough people to get things done.

    #2
    Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

    I honestly dont think Mark had intentions on disrespecting anyone. That being said if you addressed him with this respectfully I am sure he would apologize without hesitation.
    Kubuntu 10.10 - 64bit<br />AMD Phenom 9850 (2.5GHz Quad Core)<br />4GB DDR2-800 (Dual Channel)<br />NVidia GTX460<br />WD Caviar Blue HDDs (4x 320GB, RAID0)

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      #3
      Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

      Good rant, DK.

      I work at an electrical engineering and software development company -- a totally male-dominated place. Out of 80 or so professional engineers and programmers, we have exactly one representative of the female branch of humankind. I know the cultural thing you are talking about, and I would not spend 1 millisecond defending it, but my observation is that there is something in the nature of the world that causes the guy branch of humankind (or some subset of it) to be attracted to the very most technically complex undertakings. And there they find other guys similarly attracted, and few if any of the female persuasion. So it turns into a bit of a "guys club" -- not by deliberate design, it's just who you find there.

      Is there gender prejudice, aka sexism? Yep. Are there also warm-hearted and open-minded guys happy to work alongside, or under the management of, a female colleague? Yep.

      But, it is the job of the leader of any group to set a non-prejudicial environment, and perhaps that's where you have a valid point -- Mark Shuttleworth's organization is a reflection of his attitudes and spoken values, so if he doesn't make it attractive to ladies, then I guess that's Canonical's loss, huh?

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        #4
        Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

        Nice report DK. I'm glad to hear your slant on sexism. To me nothing that people say should be taken out of its cultural context. You point that out well in regard to Shuttleworth's speech. People often say things that turn out to be a little off, but the real test is in how they deal with it when it is pointed out.

        Sexism to me is really just a symptom of a general perspective. I see a similar situation commonly perpetrated in the computer world when it comes to "grannies". Granted, there are probably a lot of older women who don't use spacebook or myface. That does not mean that they are not able to understand a lot about computers. Granny has possibly done a lot of secretarial work in her life and although she may be uncomfortable with the childish icons that a modern GUI presents, could very likely type a page long perl script on the command line without mistakes. I say that because the assumption that Granny cannot possibly edit configuration files irritates me greatly. It is just plain rude. There are also many mathematicians, systems analysts, and other highly technical professionals, who are "grannies".

        Sometimes I like to push the envelope just a little to wake people up. I once gave a rather sexist friend of mine a disk with some software which I thought he might be able to use at work. He later sent me an e-mail from his workplace saying he couldn't do something or other on his computer. My response was that he should probably talk to the system administrator and see what she had to say about it. I knew that would get him. I immediately got an e-mail back stating that the system administrator was a he. lol

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          #5
          Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

          Originally posted by DK
          To address "guys" in particular, I will point out that in common casual conversation, particularly with those who are in their teens and twenties,
          The girls I went to school with frequently used "guys" when speaking to each other as a group. Thus I adopted the practice of saying "guys" in casual speech regardless of the genders of the persons I was referring to. It is not proper English, but it is a very common (mis-) usage.

          Though I can not cite any specific study, I have heard of research indicating that females are less likely to pursue careers in technology and science than males. Unfortunately it seems likely that such statistics may promote the fallacy that women are generally less technically competent than men, whether those statistics represent the truth or not.
          Welcome newbies!
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            #6
            Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

            Originally posted by Telengard
            Though I can not cite any specific study, I have heard of research indicating that females are less likely to pursue careers in technology and science than males. Unfortunately it seems likely that such statistics may promote the fallacy that women are generally less technically competent than men, whether those statistics represent the truth or not.
            That particular issue is kind of a feedback loop. At first, society's pressure insisted women were the home makers, they weren't suited for these sorts of jobs, so most people involved in the field were men. Women butted their heads in from time to time, but generally had issues or had to act "like one of the guys". When society started realizing that hey, maybe women could be good at these things too, there was already a male dominated sector established, thus making it unappealing to some women.

            Basically it comes down to, until we get more women into the technology and science areas, they aren't likely to become more appealing to women as a career path, but until they become more appealing as a career path to women, there isn't likely to be a significant increase in women in technology and science. Progress has been made, and it continues to be made, but it's still a slow uphill climb.

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              #7
              Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

              Originally posted by Ole Juul
              Sometimes I like to push the envelope just a little to wake people up. I once gave a rather sexist friend of mine a disk with some software which I thought he might be able to use at work. He later sent me an e-mail from his workplace saying he couldn't do something or other on his computer. My response was that he should probably talk to the system administrator and see what she had to say about it. I knew that would get him. I immediately got an e-mail back stating that the system administrator was a he. lol
              That reminds me of one incident at my last place of employment, Radio Scrap*. There was one occasion I was helping a customer, and he didn't like the answers I had for him. I knew I was 100% correct about what I was telling him, there was not a doubt in my mind about it, and he started demanding to speak to my manager. He was very specifically using male pronouns as he demanded this. It delighted me so that at the time my manager was a woman, so when I calmly responded to him, I very carefully emphasized the female pronouns as I politely explained that she was not working that day, and added some diplomatic lines after attempting to smooth things over. I remember him being quick to shut his mouth after that, making it pretty likely it was sexism that was driving him to argue with me when I didn't provide the answer he wanted.


              *intentionally spelled that way, as it is more accurate to the company's outlook and quality.

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                #8
                Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

                As the husband of a woman with a PhD in chemistry, and the father of daughters with advanced degrees in computer science and architecture, I resent any implication that woman are less capable than men of performing technical tasks at a high level. Accordingly, I am disappointed by Mark Shuttleworth's statement that implies the contrary. I know that my grandchildren are being raised to believe that gender should not be a barrier to success in any profession.

                BUT, it was not so long ago, that otherwise intelligent people believed that race, religion, and/or country of origin had something to do with competence. One can only hope that Mark Shuttleworth is not passing up the services of people who could contribute to the success of Canonical for any irrelevant reason. If he is, the future of (*)buntu is in jeopardy.

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                  #9
                  Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

                  Am following this thread with interest as I have mixed feelings about this for the following reasons (in no particular order):

                  a) I hate the Americanism "you guys" which is swapping over the pond
                  b) sexism is alive and well in the UK, Germany and Venezuela (the only countries I know anything about)
                  c) manager types like the hallowed Shuttleworth are particularly resistant to getting things not quite right and especially being told by others that their behaviour may be off key
                  d) I hate pc language
                  e) I hate pc thinking
                  f) I hate pc
                  g) I value the rather frank assessment of DK

                  As it stands I am rather less worried about what language Shuttleworth uses and more interested in Canonical staffing and pay structures. As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

                  As for women and computing: my dad does a 180 degree turn whenever he sees a monitor whereas my mum quickens her pace towards it.
                  Once your problem is solved please mark the topic of the first post as SOLVED so others know and can benefit from your experience! / FAQ

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                    #10
                    Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

                    Originally posted by askrieger
                    As the husband of a woman with a ........., and the father of daughters ................., I resent any implication that woman are less capable than men of performing technical tasks at a high level. Accordingly, I am disappointed by Mark Shuttleworth's statement that implies the contrary. I know that my grandchildren are being raised to believe that gender should not be a barrier to success in any profession.

                    BUT, it was not so long ago, that otherwise intelligent people believed that race, religion, and/or country of origin had something to do with competence. One can only hope that Mark Shuttleworth is not passing up the services of people who could contribute to the success of Canonical for any irrelevant reason. If he is, the future of (*)buntu is in jeopardy.
                    Agreed. Took out the parts of what you said that was relevant to me. I've worked around women and men alike a long time to know that gender has nothing to do with ability of any kind. THAT is how I'm raising my daughters and it is sad to see that attitude always creeping back in.

                    Now, as far as the English language. I've never known of a time when it ever was used correctly. It probably is one of the most mutilated languages out there. I should know, I mutilated frequently myself.

                    Oh, and DK, great rant! Qapla'!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

                      IF Mark Shuttlesworth is sexist he is doing a pretty poor job of it. Take a look at who attended the ubuntu developers summit last month:
                      http://go.internet.com/?id=474X1120&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fw iki%2FFile%3AUds_karmic.jpg


                      Did you catch the gal in the first row? Is she being sexist? It looks like the other 10-20 girls in the crowd had smiles on their faces. Maybe they know something we don't?


                      BTW, part of the argument is that FOSS is sexist because 28% of the coders at software corporations are women, while FOSS has less than 2% female coders. OK. The last time I checked 50% of all folks were women. Why aren't 50% of all coders at software corporations or FOSS projects women? Don't women have a say in how the figure works out?

                      Today I was looking at the Linux 2.6 kernel statistics. I found out that 75% of all Linux coders work for corporations who pay them to work on the kernel. Why are they not letting many/any of their 28% female coders work on the kernel? IOW, why aren't 21% of Linux kernel coders women if 75% of kernel submissions come from corporations?

                      This discussion is raging at LT, too, and all sides are being fairly represented, and no one has been called a Nazi ... yet.

                      I've been a member of several Linux distro forums. ALL of them have well defined rules about any post which could be construed as disrespectful to anyone, regardless of gender. So does the Kubuntu Forum:

                      http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=319.0

                      "Sexism" is like pornography. One may not be able to define it but will know it when they see it. However, even that is a subjective determination. As a global moderator I would delete in a heartbeat what I would consider a sexist posting. If I had any doubt I would consult the other moderators.

                      Perhaps everyone should re-read those rules. They seem to be related more to coding and project membership, not forum activities. Do they adequately address sexist or harassing postings? Should the rules be re-worded to expressly forbid sexist postings? If so, forum members, what words or phrases, and in what context, can be considered by all, or the majority, as being "sexist"?


                      LinuxChix has two rules:
                      http://www.linuxchix.org/
                      Behaviour in LinuxChix forums
                      Wed, 11 Apr 2007

                      LinuxChix has two core rules that all participants must observe:

                      1. be polite; and
                      2. be helpful.
                      Can a person be polite and/or helpful and be a sexist?
                      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

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                        #12
                        Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon



                        I vote for the LinuxChix Forum rules! I would add #3:

                        3. or go away.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

                          I agree with Death Kitten that the sexist wording should be brought to his attention.

                          However, it is quite possible that there is a reasonable explanation for his choice of target audience. I'm not saying this is a free pass to be sexist, but sometimes the whole story gets muddied in a different setting such as LinuxCon.

                          I used to teach engineering in college. The female population was extremely underrepresented consistently. The other professors and I had many discussions on how to change that. We never did get an effective solution.

                          So, maybe there are statistics that back up his choice of demographic.

                          This could be a chicken/egg problem - statistically, computers may have a low appeal for females, and changing that appeal would generate more interest in computers from the female demographic.

                          Anecdotes are nice and all, but the bigger picture is also important. If there are statistics, then his choice of demographic should not really be considered sexist. In fact, it might be an empowering approach.

                          In all my years, I have seen several outstanding women electrical engineers, and consider myself lucky to have had them in my class. Most of the ones I talked to in depth usually mentioned a mentor of some kind that encouraged them in their studies and direction. Role models are very important in changing the perceptions of society - whether those perceptions are right or wrong.

                          So, saying all that, I actually would be willing to give Mr. Shuttleworth the benefit of the doubt at this point. But, it does warrant further investigation into why he chose that demographic. Maybe he will focus on males after that...

                          As a closing point, I seem to recall the initial point of *buntu as reaching the masses - not specifically targeted at anyone other than non-geeks. That approach may have worked, so would now focusing on females be a bad thing?

                          I'd be curious how many people are using linux specifically because of *buntu....

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

                            Can a person be polite and/or helpful and be a sexist?
                            Yes!
                            The key is that a person often will not understand other people or groups in terms of their individuality or situation. I have seen men who are quite sexist and are very polite. Still, they have no understanding of some of the issues that women face - or other men for that matter. This is often cultural and they just need to be educated. We all have things to learn . The important thing, to me, is that a person learns to be both polite and sensitive to other people. And I mean all people.

                            The core problem is not really about sex but about concern for other people. As I alluded to earlier, I have seen many otherwise politically correct discussions on different forums which gleefully bash older people in general and grandmothers in particular. Perfectly polite and helpful people will talk about making computers "granny proof". How would it sound if they had said "girl proof"? What's the difference? Yes, it's about all people, and it's about not putting down other individuals or groups because of ones imagined assumptions about them.

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                              #15
                              Re: Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

                              Maybe Mark Shuttleworth should have used three neutral words instead of mom, gradmom and girl, for example common user or non-technical user. But the rest of his speech is important too. I am very glad to hear, that "make it work out of the box" and "How do we make this just awesome for end users" is very important and it seems more important than more visual effects. Maybe network connection and other annoying issues will finally disapper.
                              Kubuntu 16.04 on two computers and Kubuntu 17.04 on DELL Latitude 13

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