Confusion

[DeathKitten]

Why is it that some people have an infinite amount of patience to whip windows into shape, something they had to pay entirely too much for, but they have absolutely no patience or willingness to listen in regards to Linux? Or worse yet, why are they more willing to accept the flaws of Windows, something they paid top dollar for, but they won't accept the flaws of Linux, something they got for free?

I know we have a lot of people in these forums who are happy for help, who are patient and listen to the answers they get, even if they aren't what they were expecting, and realize that Linux is an entirely different beast than windows, and therefore requires a little bit of relearning expectations. Then there are the impatient jerks, who are a very small minority here, though I find them in larger numbers elsewhere when the topic of Linux comes up, who make me understand why it's so hard to find a *good* support forum for Linux of any flavor. You encounter enough of these rude people who start spitting venom at you when you don't give them the answer they want, and you start wanting to yell "RTFM!" at everyone without taking time to think.

Whenever I encounter these jerks, these people who I absolutely do not understand, I try to think back to my time as a newb in the world of Linux, and I remember the people who have been kind enough to help me, and that helps me not take out my frustration over these idiots upon everyone else. However, the more I encounter these people, the harder it gets to not let them bother me. I'm a pretty forgiving person when I can understand the other person's perspective, as long as the perception is not colored by stupidity, and I'm usually pretty good at figuring out the other perspective in order to understand it, but I am absolutely lost with these people. Anyone have any help for me?

[sithlord48]

Re: Confusion

such a good question,

i think that in general its because its different, and people are afraid of change, not because what they have is good or bad., but because there "used" to it. windows may have flaws but its what came on their computer,and what they have a disk to install when it breaks.some people are aware of the reasons to use linux and still use windows because of the "gaming factor". and my fav. i have ever heard has to do with not being able to open or save microsoft office documents.

as for the people who do install linux and can't accept its flaws, but are just happy with windows flaws. i wish i had even the slightest idea of why that is.

[sxeptomaniac]

Re: Confusion

as for the people who do install linux and can't accept its flaws, but are just happy with windows flaws. i wish i had even the slightest idea of why that is.

I think it mainly goes back to the same thing: they know windows' flaws. They usually know to accept them, and some will know how to get around them. Linux has flaws they aren't familiar with, and those who know how to address problems in Windows may not know where to start when dealing with problems in Linux.

[dibl]

Re: Confusion

Anyone have any help for me?

DK, I cannot stand to see you suffering so .....



[img width=341 height=400]http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1439/mintjulepwp9.jpg[/img]

[DeathKitten]

Re: Confusion

Anyone have any help for me?

DK, I cannot stand to see you suffering so .....



[img width=341 height=400]http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1439/mintjulepwp9.jpg[/img]

I haven't tried a Mint Julep before, though given I'm not much of a whiskey girl, it may not be to my taste. My alcohol intake of choice usually involves Mountain Dew and Watermelon Pucker, or Mike's Hard Limeade, usually garnished with maraschino cherries. :P I appreciate the thought though.

[Troberg]

Re: Confusion

The reason is simple: They've paid for Windows. To admit it's flaws would be to admit they've paid for something flawed, and the human mind does not like that (that goes double for Mac users...).

When did you last here someone complaining that the shining new car they bought is crap? They don't, even if it is crap, as they don't want to admit to a bad investment, not even to themselves. So, they focus on the things that do work, and suppress the rest.

However, if the same person had got the car for free, no such prestige is attached to it, and they are mentally free to complain.

[Fintan]

Re: Confusion

Dible, that gave a smile to my day anyway And as you know it starts a bit earlier than yours.
so I'll drink to that

If it is any help DK, I think that people are in general not stupid.

I mean over here we suspect everything that come in a shiny box with to many promises.

The american costumer, at least to a certain point, has decided to buy toyotas, etc instead of GM, etc.

Then again if toyota, etc had the same market presence as say, linux they probably wouldn't be buying them either. Especially if they had to relearn how to drive.

I agree it is frustrating try to "talk" to people who insist that a company making billions of $$ with a inferior product has to be doing something right. Thus they defend it. We americans always defend or at least envy those companies, because they are perceived as the "american dream" come true.

That dream seems to have been tainted with a large dose of greed over quality for years now.
Plus we have become sheep. complacent, lazy and egocentric.

What happened to the people who sailed across oceans, walked from east to west, not to find freedom but to build freedom?

I don't know, all I do believe in is that times are changing, slowly but irrevocably.

I read this the other day:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/takin...dows_7_pricing

One person actually called the Europeans snobs for telling MS what do do with its IE. (not that it changes much, except for making windows more expensive here)

You can read my reaction there as well.
It is a fact though that Linux is much more entrenched here than it is in the US.

Maybe because the people here (me included) lack that deification of companies like MS, etc. and an economy in general that is geared to rip the costumer off instead of selling something with quality.

Dible is right, grab a drink, lean back and enjoy your freedom

Edit:
you have a very valid point there troberg

[GreyGeek]

Re: Confusion

Mint Julip.

I was on a business trip to Waterproof, LA with my business partner to visit another putative business partner. I landed the Cessna 172 Skyhawk on the grass strip beside his old Southern Mansion type home. Real "Gone With the Wind" stuff. Stepping out of the plane the air was HOT and humid and smelled musty.

Anyway, he invited us to dinner at the "Cock of The Walk" in Natchez. Very quint little place along side the Mississippi river. Tin cups, tin plates, door with a squeaky spring. Wonderful noises, wonderful atmosphere. The river was WIDE at that location but seemed to be motionless. I remember two other things about that eating place. The pickle slices dipped in pancake batter and deep fat fried. I hate pickles. I loved those "Pickle Dollars". And the Mint Juleps. The ones I had were in tall, skinny glasses with crushed ice and a little colorful umbrella sticking out of the top. I didn't know what they were and my host said "try one!". I drink an occasional white wine, but not often. Those Mint Juleps tasted wonderful and I didn't taste or have a suspicion that they contained alcohol. I don't remember how many I had, but my first clue that something was amiss was when the room suddenly began spinning back and forth, and I couldn't speak very well. I don't remember much of the ride back to the mansion but they tell me I was the life of the party .... or was it the brunt of the jokes? I forget.

[DeathKitten]

Re: Confusion

Mint Julip.

I was on a business trip to Waterproof, LA with my business partner to visit another putative business partner. I landed the Cessna 172 Skyhawk on the grass strip beside his old Southern Mansion type home. Real "Gone With the Wind" stuff. Stepping out of the plane the air was HOT and humid and smelled musty.

Anyway, he invited us to dinner at the "Cock of The Walk" in Natchez. Very quint little place along side the Mississippi river. Tin cups, tin plates, door with a squeaky spring. Wonderful noises, wonderful atmosphere. The river was WIDE at that location but seemed to be motionless. I remember two other things about that eating place. The pickle slices dipped in pancake batter and deep fat fried. I hate pickles. I loved those "Pickle Dollars". And the Mint Juleps. The ones I had were in tall, skinny glasses with crushed ice and a little colorful umbrella sticking out of the top. I didn't know what they were and my host said "try one!". I drink an occasional white wine, but not often. Those Mint Juleps tasted wonderful and I didn't taste or have a suspicion that they contained alcohol. I don't remember how many I had, but my first clue that something was amiss was when the room suddenly began spinning back and forth, and I couldn't speak very well. I don't remember much of the ride back to the mansion but they tell me I was the life of the party .... or was it the brunt of the jokes? I forget.

I may have to give those Mint Juleps a go, if they're the sort you can't taste the alcohol in 'em. That said, I need to be careful when I drink, I have a family history of alcoholics and I most certainly show signs of an addictive personality. That said, being careful isn't the same as going dry, so I'll keep that in mind when I'm somewhere with a nice bar and I'm looking for something new to give a go.

Also, I must thank you for that lovely line for line response to the troll in the Firefox 3.5 thread. He's one of the people who provoked my starting this thread here, so it made my evening to read your response.

[dibl]

Re: Confusion

A properly-presented mint julep does indeed belong in a glass that is taller than it is wide. It was only a happenstance that I took a photo of one that I made in that glass. But of course if you close your eyes, the drink tastes the same. I usually like them around the date for the Kentucky Derby -- the mint here in Ohio is new and fresh at that time, and it seems appropriate to celebrate the Spring this way. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Anyway, back on topic, I personally take a very pragmatic view of computers and the opinions people toss around. I can't get passionate about it, usually -- the computer is just a tool that makes our daily lives better, by providing information access and personal productivity capabilities that did not exist in prior times. It's not a religion, and it's not a political party, and it's not family, so why do people get so agitated? Once in awhile I get annoyed by a big show of attitude or ego, and cannot resist temptation, but it's normally a waste of time. Here's the real deal: Computers can save you huge amounts of time in research and productive work, but arguing with someone on line can waste all that time. So I try not to do it.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Confusion

so why do people get so agitated?

I guess it all depends on your past experiences.

I can remember personal computers BEFORE Bill Gates sent his notorious letter saying that those who share programs are thieves. This from a fellow who got his start dumpster diving to get the source code printout of the BASIC language Yale was using. It was like it is now amongst Linux users and groups, and we can thank RMS and the GPL for ALL of what we have now.

Only recently, as the Linux desktop market share has climbed to around 12%, more than Apple according to Ballmer, has the pro-proprietary forces pushing for Linux to adopt MS IP as the primary development tool become VERY AGRESSIVE. It was like this when Microsoft first started out. I was there and remember it well. What happened is very well described by Joe Barr in his article, SLIME:
http://web.archive.org/web/200709121...com/slime.html

In the last few months the Astroturfing and Canopus Attack has resumed with great intensity as the pro-MS IP folks finally talked Canonical into making its next release of the Ubuntu Desktop Edition DEPENDENT on MONO. That means that if you remove MONO you will have to remove GNOME. MONO is based on .NET and controlled by Microsoft because not every aspect of MONO is under the EMCA standards or covered by the "promise".

James Plamondon, the first chief Technical Evangelist, who trained the cadre of TE's that flooded the world with the "Slog", the "Stacked Panel", the "Independent Consultant" and the Mole (http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic....71023002351958) stated that "Every line of code that is written to our standards is a small victory; every line of code that is written to any other standard, is a small defeat. Total victory, for DRG, is the universal adoption of our standards by developers, as this is an important step towards total victory for Microsoft itself: "A computer on every desk and in every home, running Microsoft software."

MONO is an MS standard. IF MONO becomes the defacto development tool for Linux applications then Linux has lost the game. I lived to see Microsoft dominate the PC world, illegally, and I have seen what its stifling oppression of innovation has resulted in -- billions in overcharges for software and hardware because of the lack of competition, slow, insecure and unstable operating systems, etc... ad nauseum.

I don't want to see Linux become another victim of Microsoft. That's why I wrote that response to the AstroTurf who claimed to be a Linux user but denigrated Linux and praised Windows with cleverly crafted distortions and lies.

If you are not willing to fight for it you will most certainly lose it. As Benjamin Franklin said, "He who turns his swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not."

Microsoft didn't create James Plamondon's TE gang just to play nice.

[sithlord48]

Re: Confusion

In the last few months the Astroturfing and Canopus Attack has resumed with great intensity as the pro-MS IP folks finally talked Canonical into making its next release of the Ubuntu Desktop Edition DEPENDENT on MONO. That means that if you remove MONO you will have to remove GNOME. MONO is based on .NET and controlled by Microsoft because not every aspect of MONO is under the EMCA standards or covered by the "promise".

what the.?..... does this apply also to kubuntu or is it going to be one of those gnome only things?

[DeathKitten]

Re: Confusion

The whole problem I have is I'm trying to find an *intelligent* reason for people doing what does not make sense to me. Being too prideful and egotistical to admit that perhaps they made the wrong purchase, and hiding behind claims that it's the best there is, is not intelligent. Being comforted by what's known, that's not unintelligent, but it leads to stagnation and a lack of progress... however I understand not everyone can be the visionaries and the progress drivers.

I find myself hiding in what's known to me too often, and for it I have found myself stagnant it my own life. I've been trying to work on forward motion, and I suspect I just need to find the right fire to light under my ass. When I have managed to face my fear of the unknown, I haven't found anything I've regretted thus far. I suppose when I find myself getting hung up because I haven't done something before, I should just remind myself of those poor Windows users who cling to that OS simply because they're afraid of what's different.

One of the best things I have done to move into the unknown was taking the leap to becoming a full time Linux user. I've been Windows Free on my computer since May 3rd, 2004. I should probably start celebrating my Linux birthday, huh?

[Nakrull]

Re: Confusion

i celebrate all birthdays of the friends i convinced to try and use linux (most alongside winxp for gamimg reasons) but i belive that 50% victory is bether than none
and most of them just game in xp and the rest they do in kubu so im kinda happy

i use wingows since 1995 (i was 11) but theres is my victory i never ever bought a m$ licence (i live in a third world country... [who invented that term?] and i dont know any one of my friends who did ) i just started with linux like 4 o 5 years ago the same time i registered at this forum and the one thing i love about linux are the bugs why becouse u can sigle hadedly fix them whit some help from the forum/s and thus increse ur computer knowlege globaly

i really would like to get rid on my win but i cant since i have like 300 games and only 20 or 25 run with no mayor bugs on wine or cedega and only 3 or 4 whitout any well what can i say i have a gamers core 8)

and to the reason why there are people like the ones mentioned above
well simple maths
if u have 100 people there is a big chance that 90 of them are like that
why becouse we humans tend to be like that becouse of our social structure (and there will be some arguing about this hence confirming my point)

but thats great
why? becouse it would be boring otherways

we all know what stuff m$ is capalbe of since billy started in the OS world so why does it surprise us

the slime was wery interesting and informative but the gorklaw archive was almost a bit to much for my small brain
just keep on fighting or we will never get to the 50%/50% OS usage barrier dont get discuraged becouse they use dirty trics... find the flaw in the lie and kickem where it hurts the "midiclorians*" whill do the rest


*(karma god or destiny) lol

are u realy shure that mint in that glass?
it looks strangely familiar

[GreyGeek]

Re: Confusion

In the last few months the Astroturfing and Canopus Attack has resumed with great intensity as the pro-MS IP folks finally talked Canonical into making its next release of the Ubuntu Desktop Edition DEPENDENT on MONO. That means that if you remove MONO you will have to remove GNOME. MONO is based on .NET and controlled by Microsoft because not every aspect of MONO is under the EMCA standards or covered by the "promise".

what the.?..... does this apply also to kubuntu or is it going to be one of those gnome only things?

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ub...ne/000584.html