open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

[StarWolf]

I guess im not a pursit after all. I heard all the bells and whistles about Open Suse11. I should have known novell based linux would have issues. When the live cd didn't find my belkin card i should have known better. I have been using Kubuntu with success since feisty. It took me literally 5 hours just to get suse to run my wireless card with mad wifi . Im not a big fan of a program where i have to go get the basics after the install. While this makes for a custom install it make custom issues. I wish them and other distros good luck. I don't mind learning a bit here and there about running from terminal . However when you have to spend hours just to get a basic install working doesn't seem quite fair. I yanked SUSE and had all my kubuntu back in under three hours . that says a lot about how Kububtu Blows the doors off other distros for ease of use.

starbear :-)

[sithlord48]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

i was using suse before i started to use kubuntu on my "main" computer,
i don't have a wifi card , but my video set up the way i wanted it was not an ez task. spent hours getting the video to display where and how i wanted it (tv + monitor on the v.card) then it would forget the settings , that was the last time i used suse.

[Bruce]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

I have used all kinds of distributions over the last 11 years.

When it comes to KDE distributions nothing beats openSUSE. ( I seriously dislike GNOME)

I am currently running Kubuntu 10.04 on my new laptop, and it is running extremely well and pretty fast, that said, setting up Kubuntu with all the software I use, proprietary drivers, and the preferences I usually use was far more difficult in Kubuntu then in openSUSE.

The two main reasons are package management, and configuration options/utilities.

openSUSE's YAST is an outstanding one place configuration utility that simply has no competitor.

I am very proficient in Linux and can do without any GUI utilities, but when they are available I most certainly make use of them.

From editing boot managers, to partitioning, to adding other OS's to grub, to setting up hardware, networks, software and on and on openSUSE is simply the better of the two.

Kubuntu package management is a bit of a mess, of course there is the option to install even more package managers, making in my opinion more of a mess, from apt-get, aptitude, synaptic, adept, packagekit...........it just becomes a pain to deal with. Something as simple as locking a package so that it wouldn't be updated either required me to install a different package manager, or to create and edit a configuration file. No big deal really, but it's a simple right click option in Yast.

Then there are the simple thing like hunting down a working version of kio_sysinfo, figuring out why recordmydesktop is wasn't working correctly.........

But mostly the lack of one place with as many utilities built in to configure things as YAST.

OK now, this isn't a knock on Kubuntu, because indeed I am using and enjoying it very much, I just think they need to step up configuration options and ease of use. Of course now that I have it set up the way I like I am extremely happy with it, but I know a novice or new user would have difficult time with many things.

In short it took me three times longer to set up Kubuntu then it does openSUSE.

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make when deciding to try openSUSE is using live CD's instead of choosing to use the much more powerful DVD option.

All that said Kubuntu is a fine distribution, it will stay on my laptop, and openSUSe will stay on the 4 desktops I have.

Currently running Kubuntu 10.04 LTS on my Toshiba A505-s6035 laptop with a kernel I patched and compiled specifically for this laptop. I am overall very happy with the results so far, and will be a regular here for some time to come.

In the end it's all "LINUX" and I love it.

[Raffles10]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

My view is completely the opposite. I was using Opensuse 11.2 a while back and ditched it because I thought, compared to Debian based systems, it's repository set up was a mess. Suse uses seperate repositories for everything; KDE, Gnome, Nvidia, Games, Updates, etc. Whereas all you need in Debian is /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb http://mirror.ox.ac.uk/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
deb-src http://mirror.ox.ac.uk/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib

deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org squeeze main non-free

And in *buntu all you have to do is enable; main, universe, restricted & multiverse. A very simple system for managing & adding repo's.

Debian/*buntu has the most comprehensive package repositories of any distribution. To get anywhere near the range available for Suse you'd have to enable scores of seperate repo's, and most experienced Suse users will tell you that the more repo's you have enabled the more problems & conflicts you're going to have.

Another problem with Suse is it's openSUSE Build Service and it's ymp installs. Each ymp file can enable yet another repo', and if you're not careful you could end up with some serious conflicts like having both packman and vlc repo's enabled.

Suse's repo' system is just terribly badly designed compared to Debian/*buntu systems. One good thing about Suse, I did like using Zypper, a very good cli package/repo' management tool, as good as apt.

[moonscar]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

I just came back from OpenSuse 11.2. :P yeah i distrohop a lot, but finally settling down to Ubuntu and the derivatives, there is nothing better out there for a desktop.

What suse failed at:

1.detecting and installing my video card hardware :|. It's ATI Radeon HD4650 Platinum. Suse has issues with ati it seems.

2. KDE 4.3.2 -.- yeah they are slow in implementing the newest KDE and it was a bother to manually slap on the new 4.4. (4.3 just lacks certain key features and i need a distro now not months from now when they release 11.3)

3.The lack of a simple installer like Ubuntu Software Center. (This is why i like gnome and hate it too, Ubuntu is gnome and comes up with good ideas). No Yast is nothing like USC and suse doesen't have the huge software list that a deb distro has. This feature isn't present in Kubuntu either KDE distros are behind on such things it seams.

4.Suse is more server centric and compared to the buntus it lacks certain features, thus making it a mediocre desktop.

As i see it Ubuntu, Mint, Mandriva, PClinuxOS and Kubuntu are one of the best desktop options, especially if u like altering the desktop to bahave like you want it to :P. OpenSuse is close but not close enough and they don't seem to be listening to their users all that much which makes it all the less appealing. the gecko is cool dough!

[Fintan]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

I started Linux with suse 5.0 and used it until 9.0.

Then knoppix came along and showed me the wonders of debian (apt / synaptic) package management.

Kubuntu came along a bit later

I agree with bruce. Yast IS a very powerful system config tool just like the madrake version.

And suse has a much more consistent CI from boot up to desktop, which is nice but is easily achievable within kubuntu. I have a consistent (my) look which I would have to tweak within suse anyway, so the effort would be the same. I would use the suse "look" once and then change that. But for new users it is more reassuring.

But apt / synaptic beats any rpm based system by miles (LY's?).
Don't use kpackagekit, probably never will.

And then there is the Kubuntu forum, which in MNSHO is simply the best. Period

Those two above (for me) positive points will never make me change back to Suse.

[Bruce]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

I just came back from OpenSuse 11.2. :P yeah i distrohop a lot, but finally settling down to Ubuntu and the derivatives, there is nothing better out there for a desktop.

What suse failed at:

1.detecting and installing my video card hardware :|. It's ATI Radeon HD4650 Platinum. Suse has issues with ati it seems.

2. KDE 4.3.2 -.- yeah they are slow in implementing the newest KDE and it was a bother to manually slap on the new 4.4. (4.3 just lacks certain key features and i need a distro now not months from now when they release 11.3)

3.The lack of a simple installer like Ubuntu Software Center. (This is why i like gnome and hate it too, Ubuntu is gnome and comes up with good ideas). No Yast is nothing like USC and suse doesen't have the huge software list that a deb distro has. This feature isn't present in Kubuntu either KDE distros are behind on such things it seams.

4.Suse is more server centric and compared to the buntus it lacks certain features, thus making it a mediocre desktop.

As i see it Ubuntu, Mint, Mandriva, PClinuxOS and Kubuntu are one of the best desktop options, especially if u like altering the desktop to bahave like you want it to :P. OpenSuse is close but not close enough and they don't seem to be listening to their users all that much which makes it all the less appealing. the gecko is cool dough!

Slow to release KDE? Your joking right? 11.2 was released a year ago About the same time as Kubuntu 9.04.

What features does it lack? That Kubuntu has, I am very curious about that because I haven't seen any.

openSUSE has a huge application base to start with, right on the DVD, and the only other repositories I ever add are packman, and kde desktop factory.

I had to search high and low to find a few things I use in openSUSE to get them working in Kubuntu.

Installing the latest nvidia drivers from nvidia was a bit of a pain, and installing them from the buntu repository or nvidia's site breaks Plymouth.

I had to add a repository in Kubuntu to get and older version of some software so ffmpeg would work properly and then had to edit a create and edit a text file to lock those packages so they wouldn't be replaced with the broken versions (simple right click operation in Yast)

But as I previously said. I have everything working, it just took three times longer and a hell of a lot more cli work and it works well once it's all set up, save the broken plymouth splash screens. But it is not a system I would give to my 74 year old mom (she runs opensuse).

But to be honest it really doesn't matter because it's all LINUX, and what it comes down to for me is this. I haven't used windows in ten years and I would use LINUX in runlevel 3 with the lynx browser before I would infect my computers with Microsoft software.

[Raffles10]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

Plymouth has been fixed with an update, you can get a better resolution by adding:

GRUB_GFXMODE=1024x768
GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=1024x768

to /etc/default/grub then run 'sudo update-grub' afterwards. 8)

[Bruce]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

I have done all that and tried other things. When I do that I just get a black scree until the desktop loads, that does however work for when I shutdown or reboot.

It's just broke

[GreyGeek]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

......
openSUSE's YAST is an outstanding one place configuration utility that simply has no competitor.

Mandriva's (and PCLinuxOS, obviously) System management tool comes close, if it doesn't equal YAST2 (Which was what the graphical manager was called when I last used SuSE/SUSE).
.......

From editing boot managers, to partitioning, to adding other OS's to grub, to setting up hardware, networks, software and on and on openSUSE is simply the better of the two.

I pretty much agree. The KDE4 "Systemsettings" is more of a desktop environment manager than a system manager. I've mentioned several times before that Kubuntu (hence Ubuntu) doesn't have an integrated, all encompassing, one stop shopping, system management tool, and it sorely needs one ... Or Kubuntu should add one.

[quote
Kubuntu package management is a bit of a mess, of course there is the option to install even more package managers, making in my opinion more of a mess, from apt-get, aptitude, synaptic, adept, packagekit..........
[/quote]

A "mess" isn't the right term. KPackageKit is, diplomatically, a "work in progress". It may improve to the point it matches Synaptic, but it may not, either. Either way, It is a minor inconvenience to use KPackageKit to install Synaptic and from that point on use Synaptic as my preferred package manager. I leave KPackageKit installed to handle the security updates and occasional package updates. Adding or removing packages I always do with Synaptic.

......
OK now, this isn't a knock on Kubuntu, because indeed I am using and enjoying it very much, I just think they need to step up configuration options and ease of use. Of course now that I have it set up the way I like I am extremely happy with it, but I know a novice or new user would have difficult time with many things.

A novice would sure have a more difficult time using KPackageKit than Synaptic, and surely a LOT more difficult time trying to learn and navigate apt-get, or other CLI tools.

In short it took me three times longer to set up Kubuntu then it does openSUSE.

I test distros so often that configuring a new install is usually done within 30 minutes after the initial install.

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make when deciding to try openSUSE is using live CD's instead of choosing to use the much more powerful DVD option.
.......

The DVD certainly gives a larger installation set, which for most typical users doesn't require them to go to the well too often, but for me I've found no distros which offer the math, science and development packages that I want

In the end it's all "LINUX" and I love it.

That sums it up, as long as the distro is NOT dependent on .NET API (Mono).

[Bruce]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

I was going to install synaptic, but it wanted to install 39 gnome based apps/libraries. I backed out when I saw that.

I don't do the ugly foot, I don't want the ugly foot, and I won't install 39 ugly foot packages

[kubicle]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

I was going to install synaptic, but it wanted to install 39 gnome based apps/libraries. I backed out when I saw that.

I don't do the ugly foot, I don't want the ugly foot, and I won't install 39 ugly foot packages

You don't have to install the "recommended" dependencies to use synaptic:

sudo apt-get --no-install-recommends install synaptic

will only install what is absolutely required.

[GreyGeek]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

....
I don't do the ugly foot, I don't want the ugly foot, and I won't install 39 ugly foot packages

[Raffles10]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

I have done all that and tried other things. When I do that I just get a black scree until the desktop loads, that does however work for when I shutdown or reboot.

It's just broke

The black screen prior to boot is because your graphics driver is taking longer to load than it takes to mount the filesystem, it can be solved by using the initramfs and starting plymouth as a critical step:

$ sudo su

# echo FRAMEBUFFER=y > /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/splash

# update-initramfs -u

# exit

All it takes is a little googling and you can find solutions to most problems quite easily.

[Bruce]

Re: open Suse vs Kubuntu Intrepid

Dude I have googled to no end, and have already tried what you suggest, but just to make you feel better I did it again. It had no effect, it's still "broken"

Here is some googling for you.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=don%27t+be+a+smart+ass