RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

[GUIGuy]

[RANT]
As a long time KDE and Kubuntu user, I've tried to cope with KDE4 for the last few months, updating as new builds became available. Certainly, performance has improved dramatically.

But there are things I've really begun to hate, notably Dolphin. No "Extract Here" on a right click. No persistence when I set the file display to say, split view and detailed list. Close it, re-open and it's back to single view and icons. No history in the address edit bar.

So I set Konqueror (KDE4) as the default file manager. Unfortunately it seems to have been castrated, with most of the features that I've come to like in KDE3 missing.

And then there's the lottery of whether or not a desktop application will actually display on the desktop. Amarok has been the worst of it. Taking forever to load, it never displays but there it is, running at the TOP of the applications list chewing up resources. It's never done that in KDE3.

I know someone is going to tell me I can edit this, sudo that etc to get KDE4 the way I want it. My point is, however, I've never had to stuff around with KDE3/ Konqueror to get a highly functional desktop.

There are a host of other issues that annoy me about KDE4, but I'll leave it. My point is, KDE4 has left a bitter taste. When it becomes the standard in a future Kubuntu update I think I'll be looking for a different distro or at least a different GUI desktop.

This morning (our time) i bit the bullet. KDE4 is gone and KDE3 is back to being the default.
[/RANT]

There, I feel much better now & thanks for listening

[claydoh]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

Which Konqueror features are still missing? I never was a big konqueror power-user, but I did use a lot of its features, I am not missing anything in intrepid. As to Dolphin, it saves view profiles for me, amarok (kde3 version) opens and runs as expected. I have not noticed many Amarok1/kde4 related bug reports for intrepid either.

Dolphin is breadcrumb-centric so I don't think that feature would be added (does it work in Konq for you?)

The compress/extract (and similar actions) are simply service menus, and Kubuntu haven't added any yet . At least in intrepid, there is rog131's PPA repo with some useful servicemenus and plasmoids
also his thread on servicemenus is here

[GUIGuy]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

Which Konqueror features are still missing?

As I said, it was a rant and I didn't really want to open a can of worms. Konqueror (the KDE4 version) is missing fundamentals such as split views and using the smb://somehost protocol in the address line causes crashes. As with Dolphin, there is no history retained in the address bar.

As to installing service menu, I had waded thru that but it seemed to create further problems and frustrations for me so I gave up.

Only little niggling annoying things I suppose. But enough to turn me off.

Anyway, KDE3 works fine for me and seems to do so reliably.


Cheers

[claydoh]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

konqueror has spit views, though. I use it sometimes with my left pane viewing a web page, and the right pane split horizontally, with a folder on my drive in one, and the web pages folder on the bottom.

the smb crash is not a missing feature, it is a bug I would say

As to dolphin's address bar, its not supposed to have tons of features, konqueror is for that

[noelvh]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

Hey I bitched about 8.10 and KDE4 and kind a got blasted.
With that said I am still playing and have done the nightly build and it was a bit better.

here are a few things I fond wrong that I would like help with.
1) I was able to open Dolphin as root from the right panel under kde3 I am not able to do so onder kde4
2) There is not su file manager that I can find.
3) On a laptop the power settings do not turn off the back light on the LCD panel
4) I click some thing once and get 2 or three windows open of the same thing example the apt update icon
6) I can't get compiz to work

Likes
I love the new look, of the desktop, and Dolphin. I know people like Kon over Dolphin but dol is just a simple better looking file manager. It's like windows my computer vs windows explorer.
I like the other version of apt manager over this new one.

I am still doing some testing and will not give up on it. I think this is the way its going so i have no choice it I want to stick with Kubuntu in the future. I know i can stick with 8.4 and will till I feel I am ready for kde4. My big hope is that kde4.2 will be better than 4.1

Noel Vh

[GUIGuy]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

konqueror has spit views, though. I use it sometimes with my left pane viewing a web page, and the right pane split horizontally, with a folder on my drive in one, and the web pages folder on the bottom.

That was my anguish; after making konqueror the default file manager in KDE4 it came up emasculated. The features that were there in KDE3 were missing. Split views in particular.

As to dolphin's address bar, its not supposed to have tons of features, konqueror is for that

which begs the question "why is konqueror stripped back in KDE4?". For me at least.

Cheers

[claydoh]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

see attached screenshot of konq with a 3-way split in KDE4, Intrepid

[claydoh]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

here are a few things I fond wrong that I would like help with.
1) I was able to open Dolphin as root from the right panel under kde3 I am not able to do so onder kde4
2) There is not su file manager that I can find.
3) On a laptop the power settings do not turn off the back light on the LCD panel
4) I click some thing once and get 2 or three windows open of the same thing example the apt update icon
6) I can't get compiz to work

For 1 and 2, you can get a similar servicemenu from rog131's ppa repo. I don't see the availability of the 'service menu panel' as seen in kde3's dolphin, but the servicemenu adds many root actions via the right-click.

The su filemanager is just a menu entry to dolphin ala 'kdesudo dolphin'. It is easy to create with the menu editor. Not sure why there isn't one (never noticed one while in hardy as I used the servicemenus on the panel )

As for the other issues, I am not sure if those are Intrepid issues or KDE4 issue, but I am leaning to general Intrepid problems there. I don't use compiz on kde4, though if you haven't yet done so, you may want to make sure that you have turned off kwin effects before playing with it.

[ssri]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

3) On a laptop the power settings do not turn off the back light on the LCD panel

Noel Vh

Dumped the useless guidance power manager that came with kde 4 and installed kpowersave. Then, I enabed the specific display power management to turn off my monitor in 5 minutes, and it has been doing so ever since.

Cheers!

ssri

[ssri]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

[RANT] No "Extract Here" on a right click.
[/RANT]

There, I feel much better now & thanks for listening

a useful add-on that addresses this particular concern: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show...PHPSESSID=e5af

[likes2skate]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

I do not care so much about the looks, while I do care a lot about the functionality.

For me, there is no need to rant. I installed kubuntu 8.10, and while getting acquainted, I discovered there was no right click compress option. My google searches found that the option is not there (at least, not right out of the box). For me, that was a killer. I wiped kubuntu 8.10 and installed kubuntu 8.04.

[ssri]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

Right click compress/extract is included in KDE 4.2.0

[Sunny Rabbiera]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

Yeh there is still a lot about KDE 4.2 that I dislike, but it still has potential.
KDE 4.2 is a great improvement over 4.1 despite the flaws that are still there.
I still look forward for KDE4, it might not be my favorite right now but the future is ever changing

[GreyGeek]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases



Isn't it funny how the world works?

You don't like Dolphin while I, on the other hand, LOVE IT!

When I right click on a zip file my Dolphin popup dialog shows

"Extract here. with autodetect directories
Extract here...
Extract to"


I've heard some folks claim that Konqueror had been emasculated in KDE4, or that it was "going away". Such claims or fears are total nonsense. Seigo himself said that Konqi was not going away, nor was it being "emasculated":
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2007/02/k...ews-at-11.html

Do you know that Konqi and Dolphin use the same engine? If you are familiar with converting apps from Qt3 to Qt4 you'll know it is not simply a matter of recompiling the Qt3 source under Qt4. The APIs have significant differences, with some modules being left behind and new ones added to Qt4 to take advantage of its better structure and power. The Designer interfaces work entirely different. The Qt3 Designer was more like a complex and complicated GUI RAD tool that controlled the creation of source code and a lot more. Qt4's Designer, on the other hand, is merely that, a UI designer. Qt4 returned to the more conventional, and in my mind, more powerful way of writing C++ code.
Konqi had to be rewritten. Sections of source could be moved over but a lot of UI code had to be redesigned from scratch using the new Qt4 designer.

Also, as some seem to forget, CONSTRUCTIVE user criticism and advice is essential in building a useful application. This means posting bugs and wishes on KDE's bugzilla, along with evidence the developers can use to track down the putative bugs, not information-less, wild-eyed, spittle slinging rants on user groups saying "KDE4 sucks" and pointing to other rants as proof. Countless are the times that a developer has worked on an app which, during development, became stable and considered ready for release. But, they also know that hardware and people form unusual combinations and conditions which can challenge throughly tested software. That is why Linux developers "release early, release often". They NEED your help not your middle finger, so to speak. Unless, of course, it is your desire that KDE4 go the way that KDE3 will go... extinction.


Rants are a funny thing also. As far as rants against KDE4 go, most are, IMO, fueled by misunderstandings, fears, unsubstantiated rumors, fear mongers, and fanbois of other desktops or platforms. I have no doubt that Microsoft itself added fuel to the fire by using its "Technical Evangelists" to flood Linux forums with "rants" against KDE4, because it represented, and represents, a MORE powerful desktop than what VISTA offers. (Google James Panamondon for more info.) The website, "Linux Haters Blog" targeted KDE4 for special abuse and added a lot of heat and no light to the "debate". So did Stephen J Michel-Vaun when he suggested KDE4 fork, demonstrating he new NOTHING of software development or its group dynamics.

Personally, as I said, I LOVE KDE4. I also took time to learn how to run it. Are there areas that need improvement or should be changed? Of course, but that goes without saying for ALL desktops, including GNOME, ICE, and others. Remember, however, that the KDE4 dev crew cannot walk on water. They need time to make changes. If you want to see those changes, improvements and fixes come faster then contribute to the bugzilla. The developers do not have time to both code and visit all the Linux forums around the world looking at rants so they can glean useful bug information. Here is the URL: https://bugs.kde.org/

[flarson]

Re: RANT: KDE4/ Future Kubuntu Releases

Excellent GreyGeek.
I love it when people write intelligently.