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**ericesque** · Feb 07, 2006, 12:39 AM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

I'm begging someone to help me out with this topic. I'm not trying to bait an argument. I simply want an honest and open discussion. I promise not to flame any comment made and I will listen with an open mind. If somebody can prove to me why I should stick to Kubuntu/Linux, I will make the switch permanently and erase XP from my HDD.

If you've made the switch for any reason aside from 'it's free software' and 'i hate winblows' please share!

**Orval** · Feb 07, 2006, 07:20 AM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Well, I installed (K)ubuntu half a year ago and I only occasoinally start Windows to play a game.

Basically I can do anything in Linux what I can do in Windows, however I find KDE more user friendly than Windows.

Things I can do in Linux/KDE that I cannot do in Windows are:
- update all my applications or the entire distribution with a mouseclick or two (or a few commands);
- using the power of the kio-slaves;
- converting CD's to mp3 or ogg just by dragging files to my hd (when I discovered this feature I had a smile baked on my face for two days). This just one of the powerful features of Konqueror which is miles ahead of MS Exporer;
- safely surf the internet without being affraid of viri or malware;
- use multiple desktops;
- use all the software I want without having to pay or braking the law;
- use the nice features of superkaramba themes;
- completely restyle my desktop;
- mount ISO files directly (without the need of another application like Alcohol120% or Nero or whatever);
- use a powerful command line.

These things make me feel crippled when I boot into Windows.

Things I can do in Windows that I cannot do in Linux/KDE:
- play Rise of Nations;
- use my scanner (which I don't use often).

Although I can use both if I wish, I almost always find myself booted into Kubuntu. I just love it, (and I don't hate Windows).

**ericesque** · Feb 07, 2006, 09:50 AM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Thanks for replying Orval. You're right about updating things. It seems to be far easier in Kubuntu (and I hear easier yet in Ubuntu). However, what about the situations where something isn't in the repos? I mean, then you get to go online to find source, compile, make, install... get a few dependancies, re-compile, make, install... This is what gets me.

what is the kio-slaves? I should probably just google it, but if you can save me the time...

COOL! Didn't know that about MP3s. The next time I buy a cd instead of download (legal) copies of the music, I'll have to give that a try. May be a while though.

I feel pretty safe in windows surfing with just AVG free anti-spyware running. Haven't had a virus in 3 years of being connected to a University network--one that has its fair share of security flaws.

I guess 3rd party apps would give you multiple desktops in windows, but it IS a nice feature of KDE.

Is superkaramba more than Konfabulator? I use Konfabulator for windows. As far as I can tell, it's the same kind of widget program--and yahoo makes it free.

Linux is definitley easier to skin and apply various themes. XP typically doesn't like to be messed with.

Directly mount ISO files is cool. Hadn't even tried that before. Good to know.

Linux command line > Windows command line for sure. Although you might be surprised what Windows command line can do. I found a program the other day (installing in windows) followed a little walk through which had you punch in some commands that automatically fetched and updated to the newest software. Reminded me of apt-get.

So, cool. Many good reasons to switch on a more permanent basis. If any of my comments above felt like they were shooting down your ideas, that was not my intent. I was just sharing more information about each item on your list.

Keep 'em comin guys!

I know there has to be a couple die harders out there with a solid list of reasons they don't use windows anymore.

**mbf2k** · Feb 07, 2006, 01:19 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Linux is not for everybody. If you are a gamer, windows is your OS. If you are a graphic designer, Apple is your answer. But if you are about freedom; freedom of ideas, freedom of information, freedom to innovate, then Linux is for you. Linux is as much about freedom as it is about anything else. The idea that information should be free and open, and that a company should not conceal what makes its products work is what linux is about. Had Henry Ford welded the hood of his first automobile closed, and threatened to prosecute anyone who attempted to open it, where would the automobile industry be today? I suspect that we would not be driving around in vehicles that last as long as they do, and get 60mpg. Open cooperation from individuals who work much on a volunteer basis is what has made the many Linux distributions able to compete with the software juggernauts on quality, reliability, and price. But this is about the future, and whether the OS of the future is going to be built on ideas that make things work, or whether it is built on what makes Microsoft money.

**mbf2k** · Feb 07, 2006, 01:25 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Note: I do hope that one day Linux will be the OS for everyone.

**aysiu** · Feb 07, 2006, 06:15 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

You could use the same argument against Mac OS X, really. I mean, sure, most graphic designers prefer Mac, but the Adobe Creative Suite is available for Windows as well. There isn't really anything (in terms of productivity) that's available for Mac and not Windows.

That said, I would say these are the things I use Linux for:

1. Keyboard shortcuts--I have a keyboard shortcut for just about everything I need... launching applications, maximizing a window, emptying the trash, logging out, etc. In Windows, you're theoretically limited to just the applications in the QuickLaunch toolbar. Practically (in all the Windows computers I've encountered--at work and at home) I've never seen any of these keyboard shortcuts in Windows to actually work.

2. Qemu is a lot of fun, and they do have a Windows port, but I haven't been able to get it to use an ISO image successfully. Just as there's Windows software that's ported to Linux but not well (Skype, FileZilla), there's also software that runs better on Linux (GIMP, for example).

3. Licensing freedom. Sure, if you buy Linspire, you can load it on only three home computers, but that's still more freedom than you get with a Microsoft Windows license. And most Linux distros are not nearly as restrictive as Linspire. I hate product registration keys and activation keys and such. Ubuntu and most Linux distributions free you from that.

4. Freedom from spyware/adware. In Windows, I'd have to hunt around the internet looking for "free" software downloads that may crap my computer (and I agreed to them, too, by not reading the terms of agreement carefully). In Ubuntu, I mainly install from the repositories, and those are trustworthy software sources.

5. Fun--ease of customization. To change the grub background image, I add a line in my /boot/grub/menu.lst. I have no idea how to change the Windows welcoming menu. I have no idea how to change Windows icons or the windows themselves without Windowblinds' nagware.

6. Community support. When I need answers, the Linux community, especiallly Ubuntu's comes in handy. I've never found answers to my Windows problems.

**GreatBunzinni** · Feb 07, 2006, 07:32 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Regarding Kubuntu, besides the advantages that were listed here, here are a few more strong selling points

Great UI: I can customize the behaviour of ever application's window and do it automatically. For example, I love setting the Psi ( a Jabber IM client) chat windows automatically on top of every other window and doing it automatically
Great UI: I can specify how many desktops I want, what application is present in what desktop (or even in all desktops), I can drag every window through the Ctrl+Left click method, hide some application's menu through the Ctrl+M shortcut, etc...
The power of configuration: the options are never kept away from the users. The configuration files can all be edited by hand and if we want we can even access the source code. I've did it a couple of times and it helped me a lot!
Modularity: I love the concept of modular applications. kontact should be worshiped
the sheer power of the command line: I do not need to install another application to perform simple tasks like batch file renaming. I can do that with a simple shell script with a couple of easily crafted shell commands
The control: with kubuntu linux I get the feeling that I am more in control of my system. I install what I want when I want and I can tweak everything in the system, including the kernel itself. With windows, God knows what is happening and where is it happening. It's all a big mistery which is kept away as far as possible from the user. For example, the other day I booted into windows and out of nowhere I found out that if I wanted to use the windows media player I had to accept the upgrade to WMP10. I never even noticed that windows was downloading and installing it! WTF!!

To make matters worse, I get all of this for free while I have to pay more than 100€ to be able to install WinXP and God knows how much more for the AV software.

**ericesque** · Feb 07, 2006, 08:48 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

IMO the best AV for windows is free anyway. but that aside...

you guys are listing a number of features I was unaware of. Where have you found out about a lot of these features? Just accumulated knowlege of them through experience? I still can't say I've given Kubuntu a lot of time yet.

I'm really not a gamer. I love to load America's Army--which has a native Linux port-- but I really haven't gotten my 3-d going smoothly. Graphic design IS what I do--soon to be professionally. Maybe in a year when my laptop is due for an upgrade I'll consider going the Mac route-- but i feel just as comfortable with graphic design in windows.

Oh well. Keep hitting me with your favorite features.

I'm still going to run into the problem of needing to be able to use Photoshop on a regular basis though... It's always that one little thing!

**mohawke** · Feb 07, 2006, 08:52 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Windows and it's applications always dies, while Linux and it's applications always grow. If you developed a COM website and were basically told to move to .net a year or two later you will know where I am coming from. Hell, try to play Redneck Rampage on Windows 2k or XP for that matter!

I also like the fact that all the money I spend on hardware isn't wasted on a bloated OS.

I've been running Linux for years and Kubuntu is my reason for a total switch to Linux after all this time. I could list a million reasons why, but I think you will find them as you use Linux more and more. Plus I did that here: http://www.darkartistry.com/node/129

As for Mac (OS X) My wife has the top of the line G5 running tiger and a iMac, reminds me of a locked down KDE/Linux machine with less power than I can buy for less money at my local Intel shop. I like Tiger, but Unix is Unix and I have no power over the desktop unless I load x11, KDE, etc. and at that point why bother.

As for Photoshop, I ran it the last three years with Crossover Office, here's an older screen shot: http://www.digitaldarknet.net/mdkp.png

Now I use Pixel IMage Editor, which I think will make Photoshop look like a toy and kill the need for Painter. http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=12

I do disagree about Gimp, it takes some getting used to but it works as well as Photoshop. If you are having trouble getting used to it try Gimpshop http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241

**ericesque** · Feb 07, 2006, 09:05 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

I'll check some of your link out a bit later... I like the prospect of running PS on crossover Office... however, is that not a commercial product?

As far as gimp is concerned, unless you're a graphic designer, you probably won't understand the differences between PS and Gimp.

Let me illustrate one clear and overwhelming advantage to PS: user -base. PS is the industry standard for graphic design. As such, there is a community built around PS which provides plug-ins, brushes, and many other features that Gimp cannot keep up with.

Secondly, Photoshop is not a stand alone program. One of the HUGE advantages of PS is that it interfaces so easily with Adobe Illustrator, InDesign, and the rest of Adobe's graphical products. This is support that Gimp cannot beging to touch. Adobe has created a graphics PLATFORM. Not just a menagerie of graphics programs.

I agree, Gimp is a nice image editor. It can do many things that PS does in that regard. But when you take into account the these other things I've mentioned, PS takes the cake and eats it too.

**mohawke** · Feb 07, 2006, 09:30 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Originally posted by ericesque

I'll check some of your link out a bit later... I like the prospect of running PS on crossover Office... however, is that not a commercial product?

As far as gimp is concerned, unless you're a graphic designer, you probably won't understand the differences between PS and Gimp.

Let me illustrate one clear and overwhelming advantage to PS: user -base. PS is the industry standard for graphic design. As such, there is a community built around PS which provides plug-ins, brushes, and many other features that Gimp cannot keep up with.

Secondly, Photoshop is not a stand alone program. One of the HUGE advantages of PS is that it interfaces so easily with Adobe Illustrator, InDesign, and the rest of Adobe's graphical products. This is support that Gimp cannot beging to touch. Adobe has created a graphics PLATFORM. Not just a menagerie of graphics programs.

I agree, Gimp is a nice image editor. It can do many things that PS does in that regard. But when you take into account the these other things I've mentioned, PS takes the cake and eats it too.

I agree, but it's getting there. Been a graphics guy since 92 btw

I use Inkscape and with gimp-svg plugin you get about the same thing as Photoshop/Illustrator integration. http://download.gna.org/pdbv/demo_ht...g_2.2.3-2.html

It will no doubt get better. The one thing I miss in Gimp is the web tools, which is why I purchased Pixel. Yes Pixel is commercial. I would keep an eye on KOffice though, with Karbon 14 and Krita. I think this intergration will exist soon. The three biggest applications I really miss are Cinema 4D, Poser, and ZBrush so I do keep Windows around just work on my Linux box for everything else, including most art projects.

As for Gimp plugins take a look here: http://registry.gimp.org/index.jsp

**Nirvana** · Feb 12, 2006, 12:35 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

I love Linux simply because we are spoiled. We get more out of the box (with less costs) than Windows. Kubuntu comes packed with IRC, Office, CD Burning, mounting ISO's, and a PDF program that isn't totally bloated, I forgot what Adobe's was called, because I use foxit in Windows.

**GreatBunzinni** · Feb 13, 2006, 07:33 AM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Originally posted by ericesque

IMO the best AV for windows is free anyway. but that aside...

Tell that to my laptop vendors and the computer retailers. It is hard to buy a computer (specially a laptop) without having to pay the MS + AV tax, which can rise to more than 150€.

**DeJaMo** · Mar 20, 2006, 06:44 PM

Re: Linux: simply a novelty?

Judging by the replies above, most of the posters are far more proficient users of linux than I am, so maybe this is a look at linux/Kubuntu from a different perspective.

I started using computers less than five years ago and was quite happy with windows for the first year or two. Then as I became a more proficient user I became frustrated with it.

1) When windows crashes or some program hangs, I can look in event viewer, which I find less than useful and usually contains nothing pertaining to the problem that I'm trying to investigate.
The logs on a linux machine (which I certainly don't fully understand), appear to be much more informative and hopefully given time I will learn to understand them.

2) Every time I download a piece of music, an application, program or any executable file in a windows environment, I have to scan it to check that it doesn't contain any hidden nasties, forget the scan and possibly spend two days removing crap from the box.
When I install a new piece of software from the repositories, I never have to wonder, is this going to screw my machine, I like that a lot.

3) I've personally never had a windows install that didn't need to be reinstalled after a year to a year and a half. The laptop I'm currently running Kubuntu on was bought second hand (a year old) about a year and a half ago. I've used the recovery cd to completely reinstall the XP os three times so far, the last being about a month ago just before I installed Kubuntu as the bloody machine was taking 2 minutes to boot and about 15-20 seconds to open any folder.
In contrast I've had a debian install on a very low powered box running for about a year and a half now and it hasn't slowed at all, I see no reason why I would have to reinstall that box anytime in the next ? number of years.

4) I actually prefer to operate within the laws that exist, (even though I disagree with some of them). When I buy a box with windows preinstalled, there's a 99% chance that I won't get a copy of the os so when it screws and I wish to reinstall it, I'm forced to either buy a copy of an os I've already paid for or use a pirate copy for the reinstall.
Debian and Kubuntu, I can do as I wish with, can make a 1000 copies of my original install cd and (legally) give them to friends or whoever I want.

5) On a personal note, the reason I became fascinated with computers was because of my frustration when my windows boxes screwed up. I don't have the knowledge (as yet) to work deep inside a linux box, but I do know that every file is available to me to edit/alter etc and that if and when (hasn't happened yet) my linux box screws up, I can get in there and sort it.

Other thoughts on the subject, yes I use Photoshop and PSP, I've been a photographer for about 25 years since the days when I had a home darkroom printing b&w. As yet I don't find the gimp as powerful but I haven't explored it as fully as the other two.
There are some games I play on windows and I will probably continue to have a windows boot for them and photo editing.

Being fascinated by computers, I love the learning challenge involved in running both Kubuntu and debian.

KDE is my favourite desktop, just because I like it, more than any other I've ever come across.

The community that exists around linux os's is a great help to people as they grow in their knowledge.

So to finish other than some games and photo stuff, there's nothing I can't do with Kubuntu that I can do in a windows environment and I find the Kubuntu set-up more interesting and stable.

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Linux: simply a novelty?

Linux: simply a novelty?

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