Soooooooo Confused

[Snowhog]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Don't confuse the music file - the [music file name].mp3 - with the underlying 'engine' that is necessary to play it.

So you have a collection of mp3 files you've collected and burned to CD. You still have to have a program that is capable of playing those music files. Many 'non free' players - RealPlayer, Media Player (Windoze), etc., that are 'free' to be downloaded on the Internet, which can play mp3 files, only mean that the developers of those programs have them selves agreed to abide by the useage terms of the engine that allows playback of mp3 files.

And also keep in mind, that while RealPlayer, Media Player, and such are free to download, they are still 'non free' as defined by the FOSS. The source code for those programs is not available to you 'upon request' for you to modify and redistribute as you see fit. They own the programs.

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

is it simply because they are not open source?

[Fenyx]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Regarding MP3's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3#Lic..._patent_issues

1. Legal issues: the use of the MP3 format, not MP3 files themselves, is encumbered by patents (see the article). While it might not be illegal to own MP3's (depending on where you go them), there might be legal issues concerning the software that is used to play or decode (codecs) MP3's. And when I say legal issues, it just doesn't mean "illegal", it can also mean that there are licensing or patent issues (like having to pay royalties or licenses limiting use). The creation and use of MP3 software is a legally gray area, not to mention not consistent in all countries or individuals.

2. FOSS Philosophy: Because the MP3 format is encumbered by patents (again, see the link), users do not have the freedom to use that format. For example, the owners of the MP3 patent demand payment of royalties for the use of the format, that is, in making encoders and decoders for MP3. This is against the spirit of FOSS, the spirit of freedom and openness. In general, FOSS is opposed to proprietary formats (MP3's, MS Office formats, etc.) FOSS is also opposed to software patents, that is, claiming to be the original owner of an idea for a software or an algorithm. MP3's are both (proprietary and patent encumbered).

Some of the things not installed by default but are still available in the repositories are usually less troublesome in terms of legal/licensing/patent issues, but still conflict with FOSS philosophy. This includes MP3's, Flash (licensing, not free, as in freedom), and until recently, Java, proprietary drivers for NVIDIA and ATI, etc.

Others are completely not in the repositories, like Windows Codecs and DVD CSS.

You are focusing too much on the legal issues involved in these formats, but as I've said earlier, that is only half the story. Even if there is no legal issue involved in using MP3 decoders in the country, the fact that proprietary, patent encumbered formats go against FOSS is still sufficient reason not to install it by default, even if they are in the repositories.

(P.S., you should see the Fedora distribution. They absolutely don't distribute these things in their repositories. You would have to get them from 3rd-party sources. Perhaps it is because they are based in the U.S., which is the root of all these legal issues. So Ubuntu is really providing a convenience by providing some of these things anyway, a sort of compromise between remaining faithful to what is right, and at the same time answering the needs of users anywhere).

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Are W32 Codecs and DVD Css even more restrictive? I got the WMA plugin from there I think...

[Snowhog]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

No. Exactly the same.

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

No. Exactly the same.

Then how come they arent in the repos but the others are?

[Fenyx]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Actually they are more restrictive. DVD CSS is a DRM Scheme. Windows Media are highly DRM-capable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

Unlike these two, the MP3 patent is not usually enforced (although it could be enforced anytime,which makes it a legal gray area), Flash is free only in the monetary sense of the term (free distribution), etc.

I think that Microsoft is actively enforcing its patents on Windows Codecs, and that there are laws against the use of decrypting software for DVD's in some countries like the U.S., though I'm not exactly sure.

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

So for flash its cuz its not open source, its freeware to obtain but you cannot view/modify the code and accroding to

hat software should be available free of charge

Flash is free...

and that people should have the freedom to customize and alter their software in whatever way they need.

That looks like an FOSS violaton for flash!

[Fenyx]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Yes, that is why flashplugin-nonfree, the package which installs Flash, is in the multiverse section of the repositories.

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components

[Detonate]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

I think that Microsoft is actively enforcing its patents on Windows Codecs, and that there are laws against the use of decrypting software for DVD's in some countries like the U.S., though I'm not exactly sure.

I feel, that as I have a legal, bought and paid for, MS Windows license, (even though I don't use it) I have a legal right to use those codecs.

[Fenyx]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Sometimes what we feel and what is legally allowed are two different/contrasting things. I am not entirely sure, but I think that the Microsoft Windows EULA, restrictive as it already is, does not include license to use Windows codecs outside of what Microsoft provides, that is, Microsoft Windows or Windows Media Player. You may have a license to use Windows, but I don't think that covers using a Windows media codec software outside of Windows.

I forgot to mention something about installing Flash through the repositories. The flashplugin-nonfree package doesn't actually contain the Flash software. It actually downloads Flash directly from Adobe's server and then installs it in the proper places. This is more evident if you install the package using apt-get instead of a GUI. So in a sense, Ubuntu is not technically distributing Flash at all. Just a small technical detail.

[dibl]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

I feel, that as I have a legal, bought and paid for, MS Windows license, (even though I don't use it) I have a legal right to use those codecs.

Hah -- you just don't understand, Detonate!

I once felt that, since I had bought and paid for my computer, and all the pieces inside it, and the second hard drive that I added to it, that I was legally entitled to run it, using the Windows XP license that I also bought and paid for.

WRONG -- NOT WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM MICROSOFT AND A NEW AUTHENTICATION CODE!

That was the day I googled "Linux" to see what alternatives were available. And I'm not going back, ever!

[Detonate]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Actually, I do understand, which is the reason I'm here

I know that M$ would not recognize my position, but that's the way I feel!!! Believe me, I read the EULA. I know that I don't really "own" Windows, I'm just permitted to use it because I paid for it. >

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

I feel, that as I have a legal, bought and paid for, MS Windows license, (even though I don't use it) I have a legal right to use those codecs.

Hah -- you just don't understand, Detonate!

I once felt that, since I had bought and paid for my computer, and all the pieces inside it, and the second hard drive that I added to it, that I was legally entitled to run it, using the Windows XP license that I also bought and paid for.

WRONG -- NOT WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM MICROSOFT AND A NEW AUTHENTICATION CODE!

That was the day I googled "Linux" to see what alternatives were available. And I'm not going back, ever!

What did you try to do??

[dibl]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

What did you try to do??

I had the sheer audacity to add a second hard disk drive to my Win XP computer. It "blue-screened" and tripped the "call 800-Microsoft_Owns_It" phone number, in which (after a very long time on hold) they ask you to confirm your license number, and then to answer how many hard drives you have in that computer, and then to acknowledge that the Win XP Pro license that you bought only permits a maximum of 2 hard drives in your computer, or else you have to buy a Win Server license, blah blah blah blah." You have to give all the right answers, and if you do, then you get a new authentication code that will enable you to re-install YOUR Win XP license. It truly sucks.

P.S. I have 5 hard drives in my Linux system

PPS. I run Win XP in a VMWare Player Box on my Linux system:

http://www.kubuntuforums.net/index.p...o_show&ida=128

8)