Soooooooo Confused

[RealG187]

I dont get how come Ubutnu and Kubuntu dont come with MP3 support, I know how to get it and am not asking that, I am asking why? xMMS, DSL, PCLos (from what I read), Windows, Mac OS, Sony PSP, etc all do.

This also confuses me:

it uses technologies that have been patented in some parts of the World. Most countries do not recognize the legitimacy of software patents so for most of our users this is not a problem. But if you're unlucky and you live in a country where software patents are legally enforcable, you need a version of Linux Mint which is free of patented technologies, and this is what the Light Edition is about.

Why does Linux Mint include proprietary drivers?

It doesn't. If it did, it would be legally wrong (because it would violate the GPL) or ethically wrong (if some dirty trick was used for the user to link the code to the kernel for instance).

Dont these two statements contradict each other??

And finally:

Linux doesnt include the libdvdcss, I just read about that today, Automatix says its illegal but I read this statement:

libdvdcss has never been fought over in a courtroom, in part because Section 1201(f) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act authorizes such circumvention for purposes of software interoperability.

What does this mean?

[Snowhog]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Because the codecs that are required are not free (as in open source) - they are proprietary.

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

So MP3 isn't open source so Ubuntu doesnt package it as it's promise is to only have open soruce?

[Snowhog]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Ubuntu can't include the codecs, because they are proprietary. Under the terms of the GPL, the source code for a program must be provided or made available upon request to the user. The source code allows for the user to make modifications and to redistribute that modification, again, with the source code to anyone who wants it. Proprietary software doesn't allow for this.

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Whats the difference between propritory and patented?

[Fenyx]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

The introduction in this help page might give some hints: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats

Basically this is how it goes. Ubuntu is committed to the principles of free and open source software (FOSS). Most FOSS media players do not play these proprietary and patented media formats by default, because of patent restrictions or copyright laws.

When you say that something is proprietary, someone has exclusive ownership of that thing, and others cannot use that thing without some sort of negotiation, maybe an End User License Agreement (EULA) or a Non-disclosure Agreement (NDA). In software terms, it usually means access to the source code is either impossible or extremely limited.

Something that is patented is registered in a certain Patents body, and the owner of that patent has exclusive ownership of that idea, and people have to pay him to be able to use that idea/patent (a.k.a., paying royalties).

These two things are against the spirit of the FOSS movement. Not only that, in some countries, it is actually illegal to distribute codecs or software that allow you to play these types of media. So on the basis of principle and law, Ubuntu does not ship the distribution with these things installed by default, and instead encourages the use of Free/Open media formats. Some distributions are able to "get away" with these things for some reasons. Maybe they are distributing from a country that don't have laws about these, or maybe they have paid the necessary fees, or maybe they're not concerned about the issue.

Nevertheless, Ubuntu does acknowledge that people do need these things, and they are constantly making improvements on how to easily acquire these things. Starting with Kubuntu Gutsy, we will now have kubuntu-restricted-extras and kubuntu-restricted-drivers packages to ease the installation of some of these things which Ubuntu already had since Feisty.

[Snowhog]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Very well stated!

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Would it be illegal if Ubuntu came with MP3? Like when you install xine, ugly, etc they are acquired from Ubuntu's server, so isnt that just as bad as including it?

I thought proprietary meant that you had to pay for it...

[Snowhog]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

That's why *ubuntu does not include the codecs. But that does not prevent the user from acquiring them.

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

If they are right there on the server, why dont they just put them in already?

[Snowhog]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Basically this is how it goes. Ubuntu is committed to the principles of free and open source software (FOSS). Most FOSS media players do not play these proprietary and patented media formats by default, because of patent restrictions or copyright laws.

Nevertheless, Ubuntu does acknowledge that people do need these things, and they are constantly making improvements on how to easily acquire these things.

Ubuntu is respecting the rights of proprietary property owners, so they don't include those programs/codecs in their distributions, that, and as already stated, proprietary programs don't comport to the philosophy of the FOSS. But, as also stated, Ubuntu recognizes that these programs/codecs are needed by the user. Providing information on how the user can acquire these programs/codecs is another matter. Ubuntu clearly states that using these programs/codecs, to put it in my own words, is the sole responsibility of the user - Ubuntu is not responsible or liable.

[Fenyx]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

If they are right there on the server, why dont they just put them in already?

I'm not sure if I was clear or not in my earlier post, but there are 2 factors that determine why these codecs/formats are not supported or installed by default on an Ubuntu system.

1. Legal: Some countries have laws against the use/distribution of these software/plugins/codecs. However, not all countries have these laws. This presents quite a problem. Ubuntu that is distributed in the U.S is the same Ubuntu that is distributed in, say, China. It's the same Ubuntu that is distributed from the Internet, and the same Ubuntu shipped from the U.K. There is only one default setup. Which means that this setup should be legally safe on all countries. That's why these things are not included. At the same time, Ubuntu can't presume that all countries have laws regarding this, so still provides the codecs/software for those users/countries not affected by these laws. This is on a case to case basis, which means it cannot be set by default.

But that's only half of the reason. An equally, or maybe more, important reason is:

2. Following the spirit of Free and Open Source Software: Ubuntu is committed to this. FOSS advocates the use of unencumbered formats, the use of standards, the use of things that promote freedom. This commitment is one of the things that make Ubuntu stand out from other distributions.

Take 1 and 2 together, not independently from each other, and you have your answer.

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Why would MP3 be illegal? Its on the servers, so are the servers not in the US?

[Snowhog]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

MP3 its self isn't illegal. Using it without permission, and so, avoiding to agree to their terms and conditions, violates the rights they were granted under copyright. Put it this way: The fact that you can download a copy of a movie that some one posted to the Internet, a movie that is copyrighted, doesn't make what you've done legal. You have still infringed on the owners rights to their property. Doing so is piracy.

The codecs that allow for playing of mp3 files are 'owned' by someone; it isn't free just because it got put out on the Internet for anyone to download.

[RealG187]

Re: Soooooooo Confused

Well there are legal MP3s like if you own the CD...