I tend to agree

[eriefisher]

After reading this story via Linux today I must say I do agree.

http://blog.lobby4linux.com/index.ph...Thousands.html

If Linux is going to attract more and more users then they must be able to put a disc in and say "Oh that was easy, I should have done this a long time ago". We all know how simple it is for most things but to a large percentage of computer users the command line regardless of the OS is something to be avoided. It would be nice though to just drop in a disc and click on some existing files or play music and video without to much effort.

However, this in noway will deter me from using Kubuntu.

eriefisher

[Snowhog]

Re: I tend to agree

That would be a nice goal, but, as SO much of the hardware on PCs is built/depends on proprietary 'non-open source' drivers, how would this be accomplished? One of the reasons that non-Linux OS's tend to 'run out of the box' is due to, in large part (IMO) that they (M$, Apple, et al) purchase the right to use the proprietary drivers. And because of that, they have access to the code, or are provided the necessary 'hooks' into it so that their OS and associated software 'works.'

Linux doesn't suffer from broadbased appeal due to a lack of qualified program support, rather, because everyone else (the other non-Linux OS's and the hardware developers) don't see the need to 'share.'

My few cents worth. :P

[fleamailman]

Re: I tend to agree

Something different in my view, the WIFI problem is the last hurdle of linux.

Oh and if the powers that be do not wish to play fair, then someone is just going to come alone and bring out a pirate version on linux for themselves regardless of who owns what, then copies of that pirate version will either get onto the p2p system or the hacker sites, and before we know it, there will be a great fuss over pirate linux that makes P2Ps, riping DVDs and music sharing, look like smallfry in comparison. Mind you if pirate linux came out I cannot promise that I wouldn't download it, though I think that as soon as it came out, the powers that be would start sharing a bit more

[jankushka]

Re: I tend to agree

i don't!

a part from the fact that every single machine i have installed with kubuntu have always succeeded
in recognising any ntfs stuff that was already there...and i swear i really have some old crappy ones
in my lab...

a part from the fact that ntfs-3g is there to allow people access to their ntfs stuff read and write...

a part from the fact that, even if ntfs-3g is not there out of the box, software management in
linux is light years ahead of anything else, especially with dpkg/apt, that it doesn't take more than
2 minutes to get things working...

a part from the fact that it's not our fault if the world is hooked on a rubbish...(i can't even get
myself to call it an operating system)...thing, like mickeysoft windoze...

a part from all this...and there would be more...

i wonder what would happen if i tried to install windoze xp or vista on my pc right now.

would those see my ext3 and xfs file systems out of the box and grant me reaw/write access to them?

uh?

now, get off: i've had enough of this rubbish.

cheers,
y.

ps:
and if this guy tries and put his mounts in /etc/fstab.conf, then he can't really go around complaining,
that kubuntu is not up to scratch, can he?

[DeathKitten]

Re: I tend to agree

We either need to figure out how to educate the unwashed stupid masses, or we need to figure out how to make the system work closer to what they expect. There's no other way about it, regardless of who is right or wrong in the situation. If we can't educate the people, we have to decide what's more important, converting the masses to the wonders that are linux, or being "right".

That was the whole point of the article from what I could tell, and getting on a high horse calling people stupid doesn't change the fact that there are people who try ubuntu and leave because they don't know how to mount their windows crap.

[Snowhog]

Re: I tend to agree

We either need to figure out how to educate the unwashed stupid masses, ... and getting on a high horse calling people stupid ...

Didn't you just state what you said we should not state?

[eriefisher]

Re: I tend to agree

i don't!

a part from the fact...

Hey, I"m on your side here. I just think we should include some of the tools we already have available to us via download on the live/install cd's so we don't have to tell a new user to "apt-get" right away. They can be eased into using a distro. Media codecs are a whole other problem and until the number of users increase enough and their voice is loud enough we are stuck where we are.

My agreement was only in theory and I do see the flaws in his argument.

[DeathKitten]

Re: I tend to agree

We either need to figure out how to educate the unwashed stupid masses, ... and getting on a high horse calling people stupid ...

Didn't you just state what you said we should not state?

Just because they are stupid doesn't mean we need to tell them so to their face. :P

Besides, my point was less "they aren't stupid" and more "we shouldn't dismiss them for being stupid, but instead look at how we can make things easier without breaking the system".

[Fintan]

Re: I tend to agree

Of course he has a point but....
Every distro has its own priorities. It would of be nice to have a general how-to at first install that tells a new linux user about system settings->advanced-> disks & files, samba and other stuff not being installed by default. A mention on the download page that you should write the .iso at less than 8x to cd otherwise you may encounter problem loading the live cd or installing. Maybe even mention to use the acpi=off version to load the live cd on laptops so the install doesn't get cut off because acpi thinks the cpu is cooking spaghetti.

Sure, Linux in any flavor is not a fridge which we replace when the old one is broken and just continue putting our beers and tequila along with the tuna salad (don't worry my tastes in food are slightly more refined) inside to chill and just get along with life as it was. And it shouldn't be. It is a choice.
Either you like it and want to learn more or you leave it alone.

This has been harped upon by many, but for the sake of argument:
Has anyone recently (or ever) tried to install macosx on a non mac machine? Good luck macosx is built for mac machines period. Dell MAY help linux on this front.
The last time I installed winxp on my machine I spent 3hours downloading, firewall, anti-everything apps,, drivers, etc and installing them before I even got around to download OO, FF, TB, etc. and write a mail or a letter.

Of course Kubuntu, etc has a long way to go. But it has come a long way since version 5.something when you had to do a xorg reconfig after install. Nobody mentioned that before downloading the .iso either.

Kubuntu Gutsy seams to be shaping up nicely for a alpha/beta. It doesn't seem to like OO, TB (and some of its add-ons) and few other things, at the moment (althought the ubuntu version has no problems with them, don't ask me why). But it is getting there.

And second to last, I don't think it is question of stupidity, There are a lot of very stupid things going on in this world and an extreme amount of very stupid people we actually vote into office or gogle over in the media. Does this tell us something about the state of humaity? Maybe. For me an OS of any flavor is a tool, nothing else. Like a knife in the kitchen and a screwdriver in the workshop or a pen and paper/napkin. It lets me do things quicker and more prductively. It lets my creativity (albeight dormant soemtimes) express itself.

People will always have a point of view about how others should do this or that. Even more so in the so called cyberwotld.

If I listened to everyone telling me how to dress, what car to drive, what to eat, who to go out with, how to ....... I wouldn't get around to get anything done for myself but only for others.

The ubuntu family and especially this forum is as fas as I am concerned on the right track, if a few don't like it, so be it.

so much for my 2c's

Cheers
Fintan

[lingenfr]

Re: I tend to agree

My thought has always been that if philosophers who like to engage in these esoteric discussions would instead choose to use their time answering a noob question, more folks would use linux. Not taking a shot at anyone, just an observation.

[jbaerbock]

Re: I tend to agree

EDIT: Just realized the below post didn't stay 100% on topic. When I installed Kubuntu I had this ntfs problem. I had to run Automatix2 for codecs and it has an option to auto fix this problem. Problem is it doesn't fix it all the way, still have to edit the fstab file. Though this is not hard by any means it may be enough to turn off a new user, especially one with little patience.

I find that Linux works fine for most users OOTB and many times easier than in windows since Linux normally comes with CD burning integrated among other things which in windows you have to purchase seperatly and install. So when thinking from a just installed fresh OOTB way of thinking Linux is mostly ahead of the game.

Also we have to note that a lot of the problems out there have a GUI fix. Wireless has the GUI version of ndiswrapper now, and with PCLinuxOS you do not even have to blacklist anything manually (which is a sinch). Also we now have automatix which installs all commonly used multimedia codecs, so after running automatix it is that easy.

Some distros take the things above and have them pre-installed so it literally does work OOTB. Linux Mint has the ndiswrapper GUI pre-installed, Automatix pre-run so all codecs etc... is there from the get go. So really we are making huge strides. Only problem is if someone wants to use Ubuntu or Kubuntu and does not know the name of these programs in order to download them and run them. Granted 5 minutes of searching will come up with an answer but some people don't even have that much patience.