Cannot rearrange icons in task bar

[rhimbo]

Just installed kubuntu 24.04 running KDE Plasma Version 5.27.11, KDE Frameworks Version 5.115.0, Kernel Version 6.8.0-39-generic (64-bit)

I can't figure out how to rearrange the order (position) of the application icons in the task bar.

I can enter "edit mode" by right-clicking in the task bar, but then I can't see how to rearrange the icons.

On my laptop which is running the same kubuntu platform as specified above, I can rearrange the position of any icon simply by left-clicking and dragging it to the position I want.

I compared the settings in all tabs of "Configure Icons-only Task Manager" between the new desktop installation and my laptop installation, but saw absolutely no difference; they are exactly the same. And the version is the same: 3.0

[rhimbo]

Here is a bit more information. It appears that I can rearrange application icons that I pinned to the task bar. It appears that a few that were on the task bar as part of the installation are not moveable -- at least not without changing some setting which I can't find.

I see that there is an "Allow this program to be ungrouped" selection on the right-click pop-up menu. but this seems to just ungroup windows of the same application. After ungrouping, I still cannot move icons.

[jlittle]

Perhaps it's the difference between the "Task manager" and the "panel"? A task manager goes in a panel.

Apps pinned to the task bar, with an icons-only task manager, look just like icons for launch widgets in the panel. But the first go in the task bar, the second are out of the task bar, either before or after it, so you can't reorder them together. If you want them all to be pinned, run them then right-click the entry in the task manager and "Pin to Task Manager". Then, right-click somewhere in the panel, and "Enter edit mode". Then if you move the mouse pointer over a panel widget, you can click "Remove".

[rhimbo]

OK, that helps.

I am perplexed. I rebooted my machine this morning (after having shut it down last night), and then I was able to drag the icons to wherever I wanted. I'm not sure what the problem was, but it seems to be working now.

But thanks for the explanation about Task Manager and panels. It makes sense.

[rhimbo]

Well, I spoke too soon....

Could someone tell me the difference between a widget and an application icon in the task bar? The context of my question is the following:

It seems that I'm doing something that results in adding both a widget and an icon.

I start an application, and the icon appears in the task bar.
I right-click and select "Pin to task manager" and that seems to work: a new application icon remains in the task bar.

Thereafter if I click and drag the application icon, it adds a widget to the task bar. I see different pop-up menus when I right-click on an application icon or the resulting widget added afterwards.

I'm trying to post screen grabs of the two different pop-up menus, but I'm having trouble capturing a pop-up using Spectacle....

[rhimbo]

I think I'm somehow adding icons to the task manager instead of the task bar. The problem is that I cannot see the borders of the task manager.

I say this because I notice that upon entering edit mode "Enter Edit Mode" and then right-clicking on an icon in the panel (task bar or task manager?) I see either
"Unpin from Task Manager"
"Unpin from Task bar"
"Remove from Task Manager"

but I can't tell the state of any given icon.

I guess my first basic question, the answer to which I have no idea, is this: what is the Task Manager?

[Snowhog]

The Task Manager is itself a Widget that exists on the Panel, and normally, is positioned to the far right. The Task Manager holds Notifications, Updates, Night Color Control, Vaults, Power Management, Disks & Devices, Display Configuration, KDE Connect, Lock Keys Status, and Printers. Not all of these are visible by default.

The Panel contains the 'Start' icon (which is configurable to either bring up the Application Dashboard, Application Launcher, or the Application Menu), Widgets, and pinned applications, some of which are there by default, like Discover.

[rhimbo]

I have a widget on the far right of the panel with the icons you mentioned: Clipboard Contents, Input Method, Sound, Most Recent Device, Networks, etc....

On the far left I have what appears to be a Task Manager widget with some icons (from left to right): Application Launcher, System Settings, Discover, Dolphin, Firefox....

I don't need a Task Manager widget do I? Is there a reason I need a Task Manager icon? Can't I just delete it and add application icons to the task bar (panel)? Is it somehow 'better' to add applications icons to it rather than adding them to the task bar directly?

I'm still confused about what I'm actually doing when I click and drag an icon and it appears to create a widget (it appears that the widget icons are a bit smaller physically than the application icons).

[Snowhog]

On the far left I have what appears to be a Task Manager widget with some icons (from left to right): Application Launcher, System Settings, Discover, Dolphin, Firefox....

That isn't a Task Manager. Those 'icons' are on the Panel.

[rhimbo]

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean that the icons I see are not contained in the Task Manager widget? They are on the panel directly? When I pin the icon of a running application, am I pinning it to the panel directly or to a (the?) Task Manager?

And what are the two different sizes of the icons I see in the 'panel'?

When I right-click on an icon and see the menu item "Pin to Task Manager" in the pop-up menu, does this mean that the icon is on the panel and not 'contained' in or by the Task Manager?
At this point I'm confused on what the Task Manager is. Is there a visible graphical(GI) element that is accessible to the user via the UI? Or is it just an 'internal' element managed by the GUI?

[Snowhog]

Sorry. I wasn’t totally correct. This should help with your understanding. https://userbase.kde.org/Plasma/Panels

[claydoh]

• The panel is a widget.
• The Task Manager, any of its variants, the system tray, menu icon, and other items are widgets that can live in a panel.
• The task manager can take up most or all of the empty space on a panel
• In edit mode, you can see which things are 'together' when hovering over a widget
• Pinning an icon via the right-click option does place the icon within the task manager, where they can be dragged to change the order --withing the task manager
• Dragging an icon to the panel creates a separate launcher icon, and is not part of the task manager - you can see the task manager or other widgets slide out of the way when moving that icon to various parts of the panel.
• Launchers icons do not move by simple click-and-drag, since they are widgets - edit mode is necessary.
• These launcher widgets do cause a task manager entry to appear when the associated application is launched - a new "task"

Though these below are from Plasma 6, they do highlight the widgets


Above, the menu icon, the virtual desktop thingy, then the launcher widget for Virt manager, Note the Task Manager and what it contains, shaded a bit darker here. Off to the Right, there is the System Tray widget, but I cut that off.



Now, note the Virt Manager launcher is separate from the task manager. I can move this to the left of the menu icon, or to the right of the task manager, if desired - just to the left of the systray.

[rhimbo]

OK, I think I now know what is confusing me. With some of the icons in the task manager, when I click to open the application, the application opens and the icon background changes to a blue with a 3D beveled top edge.
But with other icons in the task manager, when I click to start the application, the application starts, but an additional icon appears in the task bar with that same blue 3D beveled top edge appearance.

So I'm wondering if there is a difference between the icons in the above two categories, despite their same visual appearance. when right-clicking on the icon I see the same menu for all, so whatever difference there is is not apparent to me.

[rhimbo]

But I'm wondering if the problem is just that I leave applications open when logging out or just shutting down directly.

I just terminated all running applications, then restarted several to test. So far, none of the applications I started by clicking the icon in the task manager resulted in a second icon appearing on the task manager.

emacs is the application that places a new icon on the task manager upon startup. And there is a "Pin to Task Manager" item in the right-click menu. I wonder why this one behaves differently than the others. I see that if I hit Alt-space bar to bring up the search, there are 3 options for emacs. If I select the Emacs (Terminal) then the icon that I pin to the Task Manager (so far) seems to be the only one that appears; upon starting emacs, no other icon appears on the Task Manager.

I will experiment with logging out and back in, logging out and shutting down, and shutting down directly to see if the icons continue to appear as expected. I wonder if there is an issue with saving desktop state.

[jlittle]

... if there is a difference between the icons in the above two categories...

claydoh explained this at length; here's it more simply:

Yes, there are two "categories": widgets in the panel, and icons in the icons-only task bar. The task bar is only another widget in part of the panel. You can have panels without task bars, or even two task bars in the same panel. (You can have lots of panels.)

If you right-click an entry in the menu, you can "Add to Panel (widget)", or "Pin to Task manager".

If you don't like the fact that the icons used by the widgets are the same as those used by the task bar, you can change the widget icon, but if you have an app pinned, there may be no point in having a widget. (But there may be...).