When do you think we can call it FIXED?

[Snowhog]

Glad to hear that you are aware that California's Lemon Law isn't limited to just vehicles. Hopefully you won't have to push System76 to provide you with a 'brand new' replacement, or, a full refund. If they do provide you with a 'brand new' replacement, I'd suggest that you run it with it's OEM installed Linux and run it through its paces. See if it also locks up as you've been experiencing. If it doesn't (and you pushed it hard enough/long enough that if it was going to, it would), then install Kubuntu and leave it 'plain vanilla'. Don't even modify the Desktop Theme, or any themes. Don't add any PPA's. Use it 'as is' and again, run it through its paces. See if it will lock up. If it doesn't, then start your customizations (themes and programs), but do so one at a time. Keep a log of what you do. Run the laptop for a sufficient amount of time to see if it will lock up. If it doesn't, repeat.

Yes, this is a SLOW process, but it's a sure way to identify (and have documented) what it is that results in the lock up. It's the process I would go through.

[DoYouKubuntu]

Glad to hear that you are aware that California's Lemon Law isn't limited to just vehicles. Hopefully you won't have to push System76 to provide you with a 'brand new' replacement, or, a full refund. If they do provide you with a 'brand new' replacement, I'd suggest that you run it with it's OEM installed Linux and run it through its paces. See if it also locks up as you've been experiencing. If it doesn't (and you pushed it hard enough/long enough that if it was going to, it would), then install Kubuntu and leave it 'plain vanilla'. Don't even modify the Desktop Theme, or any themes. Don't add any PPA's. Use it 'as is' and again, run it through its paces. See if it will lock up. If it doesn't, then start your customizations (themes and programs), but do so one at a time. Keep a log of what you do. Run the laptop for a sufficient amount of time to see if it will lock up. If it doesn't, repeat.

Yes, this is a SLOW process, but it's a sure way to identify (and have documented) what it is that results in the lock up. It's the process I would go through.

This is excellent advice, SH, and I fully intend to follow it.

The *slow* part of the process isn't as big a concern for me as its *OEM* part! I can have them install Ubuntu or Pop; I'll choose Ubuntu as always. But...oh my goodness....when I try to use Ubuntu and GNOME (or whatever its default UI is called now), I feel so lost it's not even funny. Things that I do by rote on K take a lot of thought on U.

Honestly, I'll be stunned beyond words if a replacement has the same problem. Really. Stunned. The loaner was fine! Of course I didn't install K on it (it's running Pop). But my previous System76 laptop ran great for 7 years. And I am not aware of mass-lockups among other S76 users. I really believe this is a fluke, of one type or another. From the get-go, it's seemed like something that's a conflict somewhere, but not something obvious. In other words, it hasn't been obvious, like, say, if it always happened when running programX, programY and programZ simultaneously. Or it always happened when starting programA first, then programB, then programC. Or something! Just no pattern whatsoever, including happening in the middle of the night when it's not being used at all. I can't imagine a replacement doing the same thing.

Time will tell, I guess.

I wanted to strikethrough the title of this thread, but the thread editing tools didn't give me options besides 'solved'--and, of course, it isn't. Can a mod edit its title for me? Just put something like "never mind" in front of the title?

[Snowhog]

To edit the Thread Title, go back to the first Post and click on Edit and then on Go Advanced. This lets you edit the Title.

[Qqmike]

I guess they have ways of testing the memory cards. But it can exhibit tricky symptoms, like you are having. For one thing, I would remove it and visually inspect it using reading glasses (or a jeweler's 'optivisor' or whatever), looking for cracks or other issues. I once had this issue. I was writing a long technical report. It didn't lock up -- for hours -- until I got to critical sections of it and before I had time to hit Save! Ha! I switched out the memory card (hairline crack issue), and all was well.

[DoYouKubuntu]

To edit the Thread Title, go back to the first Post and click on Edit and then on Go Advanced. This lets you edit the Title.

I knew that. I've even told other people how to do that (not on KFN). My memory's not what it used to be. *sigh* Thanks, SH!!

[DoYouKubuntu]

I guess they have ways of testing the memory cards. But it can exhibit tricky symptoms, like you are having. For one thing, I would remove it and visually inspect it using reading glasses (or a jeweler's 'optivisor' or whatever), looking for cracks or other issues. I once had this issue. I was writing a long technical report. It didn't lock up -- for hours -- until I got to critical sections of it and before I had time to hit Save! Ha! I switched out the memory card (hairline crack issue), and all was well.

I just can't understand why they didn't test it using its actual OS. TWICE!! They were supposed to, even though System76 doesn't officially support Kubuntu, but they didn't. And at this point, there's no way I'm mucking around in there again. It was hard enough once...I'm not up for twice! We'll just wait to see how it's going to play out once I've heard back from S76.

[GreyGeek]

Your bad HD could have caused damage to other components on your mobo. Have you activated your CPU and GPU temperature widgets? If so, what do they report?

IF you are having unusal heating problems the excess heat could shorten component life considerably, leading to breakdowns of other components. Excess heat has one source: larger current flows. IF you had access to a flir device you could see which components on your mobo are the hottest. Not having that device using an IR gun at close range could help you target hotter than normal components. Once you locate the hottest component you could measure the voltage on its leads. A low voltage on a lead that is supposed to be, say, 3.6V but is actually 1.5V suggests a heavier than normal load. Of course, locating the normal voltages for componants on the mobo would require info from System76.

[DoYouKubuntu]

Your bad HD could have caused damage to other components on your mobo.

But WAS it actually bad? Given that the lockups returned, I'm thinking....no. Why it took 7 days to start up again, I don't know, but I no longer think it was the hard drive.

Have you activated your CPU and GPU temperature widgets? If so, what do they report?

No, all around.

IF you are having unusal heating problems the excess heat could shorten component life considerably, leading to breakdowns of other components. Excess heat has one source: larger current flows. IF you had access to a flir device you could see which components on your mobo are the hottest. Not having that device using an IR gun at close range could help you target hotter than normal components. Once you locate the hottest component you could measure the voltage on its leads. A low voltage on a lead that is supposed to be, say, 3.6V but is actually 1.5V suggests a heavier than normal load. Of course, locating the normal voltages for componants on the mobo would require info from System76.

GG, I don't have any of that. My plan right now is to see what they say, hopefully tomorrow, and take it from there. Frankly, I don't feel inclined to do any more troubleshooting with this thing.

[DoYouKubuntu]

THIS case is officially closed!

System76 is building me a spiffy new Gazelle with similar tier hardware, but newer generation (11th Generation i7 and Nvidia GTX 3050). They had previously brought up the possibility of installing Kubuntu for testing purposes (on the old one), so I've asked if they can install K on this one, if not then go with U 20.04LTS.

I'll be honest, it took a little work, including pointing them to California's lemon law. When I logged in this morning to check my messages, I was holding my breath. I expected bad news. Imagine how pleasantly surprised I was by what I saw instead!

Fingers crossed that this well and truly solves the problem.

[Snowhog]

Fingers crossed!

[DoYouKubuntu]

I need opinions, please! They can install Kubuntu but it will involve additional time (due to shipping to multiple places). All things considered, do you think I should have them install K or just do what I've done forever, install it myself? Keep in mind that this is the first time in decades of computing I've run into problems like I've had with this laptop. I've used K for 16 years. There's no need to be gun-shy about this, right? I think having them install U and then proceeding with installing K when I receive it is probably the way to go. What do you think? Also, I don't know whether they'd follow my preferred partitioning scheme (I haven't asked yet).

Also, I'm contemplating burning a new install stick. For all we know, maybe there was a flaw in the installation file itself! The one thing that's been constant throughout all of this is that I used the same install stick each time. I don't have any on hand, so I'd have to order one, but do you think it's worth the bother? Or are the odds just too remote that there could've been some kind of flaw in the file I used?

[Qqmike]

You are in a challenging situation DoYouKubuntu. But, it happens. Mathematically, it must happen. Even near-zero probability events happen. I hope they do build your new system from scratch -- including new memory card(s). As for the OS installation, I always simply use dd to make the live USB flash drive, like in my how-to:

Building a Kubuntu live USB flash drive installer using dd
https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...712#post378712

Gosh, sweetie, I do hope you get this darned thing squared away. We are cheering for you, for sure.

[GreyGeek]

I believe that you have the ability to install any OS you want on your new machine. That previous machine was a lemon and not indictative of System76's general quality and reliability. IF I could afford it I'd buy one myself.

[jlittle]

I need opinions, please!

I think you won't be satisfied unless you do your own install.

Also, I'm contemplating burning a new install stick.

Why use a USB stick to emulate an obsolete technology? I suggest using a USB stick at what it's good at, copying stuff to it. Now, you've got to boot the computer somehow, so a bootable USB is good for that. But, all a USB needs is a boot loader that can boot into an iso. I've used the same one for years now; I just copy the iso file onto it.

But usually a USB stick is not needed at all, the computer already boots. I just copy the iso onto it, or download onto it, and boot from there. It's much, much faster that way, booting the image from an SSD. In your case, the machine will arrive booting, so no USB is needed. Saves a huge amount of time.

There's several projects that set up USBs for iso-booting. I keep meaning to check out Ventoy, but on the rare occasion I need to boot a machine from USB I just reach for the stick I've used for years.

[DoYouKubuntu]

Thanks for the input so far, guys. Over the years I've used various methods of installation--starting with the 5.04 CD I got from Ubuntu. From then on, I sometimes used a CD/DVD I had burned, and sometimes installed K via the existing U installation. How does this sound? Let them install U 20.04 then use it to install K? That's still doable, right?

And I'm totally on-board with the mathematics of it all--I absolutely agree that it *is* possible for this to happen again...but I feel pretty secure that it's not LIKELY.