How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

[cdupree]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

Truly, old GRUB wasn't all bliss.

But a normal user could edit a text file to configure the GRUB menu, removing everything but the latest kernel and setting defaults and presentation orders trivially.

With GRUB 2, this doesn't appear even to be possible, let alone easy. I can understand why removing old kernels is preferable, but how would a normal user know to do that? And why should I have to know the precise kernel number before removing it---why can't I just go into a file and dump everything but the newest stuff?

I agree that modularizing GRUB stuff into config, scripts, and options has a lot to be said for it. But for normal use GRUB 2 appears at the present time to be far less functional, regardless of how well one knows it.

But perhaps I'm missing some critical knowledge.

[Snowhog]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

GNU GRUB 2 Manual

[cdupree]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

Fine documentation, no doubt, and it explains the motivation for breaking things up the way they have been.

But it doesn't, as far as I can tell, offer any clues as to how one might, for instance, change the order in which items are presented by GRUB. And there doesn't appear to be any analog to the old method of deleting items from the list. Using a package manager does work, but it seems a bit convoluted to me. At least, in my tech writer days I would have complained long and loud about it as a user advocate.

However, it's not a critical issue, it doesn't keep me from booting.

Thanks again for all the advice!

[Snowhog]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

Some more 'useful' info: [SOLVED] Grub2 and boot order change

[cdupree]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

Not really new info, unfortunately. Basically the thing about order determination does not affect the order in which GRUB presents the choices. What it does is determine whether the Linuxes are presented before or after the memtests, and so on. You can change that order by fiddling the numbers prepended to the filenames. But you can't change which Linux comes first and which second, for example, because that gets generated on the fly.

And it's precisely that generation on the fly that destroys a traditional feature, namely the ability to control the GRUB menu.

[kubicle]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

But a normal user could edit a text file to configure the GRUB menu, removing everything but the latest kernel and setting defaults and presentation orders trivially.

Well yes, but that wasn't a particularly good way to go about it, since all manual user edits in the automagic section would be overwritten in the next kernel change (because update-grub would restore all the kernel entries if the kernel images were still installed. The same reason why one should not edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg directly in grub2). Also it was rather easy to render a machine unbootable with manually editing menu.lst in grub1.

I can understand why removing old kernels is preferable, but how would a normal user know to do that?

I could ask how would a normal user know how to edit menu.lst in grub1? (reading documentation, forums, google). Also, obsolete kernel images should be removed by running "sudo apt-get autoremove"...a common maintenance task to remove automatically (as dependencies) installed packages that are no longer required (although this might not be true for the kernel images installed in the default installation).

I agree that modularizing GRUB stuff into config, scripts, and options has a lot to be said for it. But for normal use GRUB 2 appears at the present time to be far less functional, regardless of how well one knows it.

The configuration in /etc/default/grub is currently not as good as it could be. I'm sure it'll get more versatile. I'd imagine the goal is to offer all config options in /etc/default/grub, which users can edit, without the need to touch anything else.

[cdupree]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

Not sure I really understand the objection. Sure, editing menu.lst required one to know its location, but removing and reordering items didn't require any knowledge of the meaning of the items themselves. Each item was a paragraph that could simply be cut and pasted into the right order.

True, each new kernel blew away the old boot menu, but doesn't that make sense? You need a new boot menu when you install a new kernel, so that didn't seem like a problem to me. Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture.

I understand that new versions don't include everything. Still, it seems very strange to me that the single most frequent operation I've performed on boot menus is no longer even possible, let alone trivial like it used to be. And I agree that the flexibility will improve, because it can't go any further the other way :P.

Again, many thanks for all the suggestions!

[kubicle]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

Sure, editing menu.lst required one to know its location, but removing and reordering items didn't require any knowledge of the meaning of the items themselves. Each item was a paragraph that could simply be cut and pasted into the right order.

You can still do that (copy/paste rearrange items) manually by editing /boot/grub/grub.cfg if you really want to, all the edits will just get undone after kernel operations (but it sounds you're used to that with GRUB1). You can move/delete the "menuentry" sections under ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### (this is where you'll find linux kernel entries)

True, each new kernel blew away the old boot menu, but doesn't that make sense? You need a new boot menu when you install a new kernel, so that didn't seem like a problem to me. Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture.

Not necessarily a problem for everyone, but I don't really consider it very user-friendly to need a manual edit to modify boot menu after every kernel operation. Especially since even grub1 did generate a menu.lst file automatically (even with an option to only show a set amount of kernels). Still, as kernel images (once they'll start to pile up) can take up Gbs of disk space, one really should start removing them eventually (which would remove the grub entries).

Still, it seems very strange to me that the single most frequent operation I've performed on boot menus is no longer even possible, let alone trivial like it used to be.

Even though I have no need for that, I've no objections to implementing the functionality. I'd say it wouldn't be hard (if desired) for the devs to modify the generation scripts to read settings like "maximum number of kernels" from /etc/default/grub and let the automatic generation handle the rest.

[cdupree]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

Okay, so GRUB2 would only blow away manual mods in the same situations that GRUB1 would? That would leave the same functionality I used to have, which would be great from my point of view.

And I certainly understand that my usage is not the same as everyone else's. I'm just doing what seems simplest in my situation.

Thanks again!

[kubicle]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

Okay, so GRUB2 would only blow away manual mods in the same situations that GRUB1 would?

I'd say so, yes. Running 'update-grub' will rewrite it, but AFAIK this only happens automatically with kernel changes (install/upgrade/removal), and possibly with grub changes.

Even though /boot/grub/grub.cfg is not meant to be edited manually (and mistakes/typos can make the system unbootable), it doesn't mean you can't edit it, if you really want to.

[Qqmike]

Re: How to configure grub? Cannot find menu.lst or grub.conf

@cdupree, I think you'll find that while tech writers are not a dime a dozen, there are plenty of them around, including some former textbooks writers .
Writing is not the problem; most anyone can learn. Problem is that GRUB 2 is still very much, in many ways, experimental, and there has been no official proclamations, save this:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/ ;
and that is a bit hard to read at times, very hard to nail down what is finally nailed down rather than simply discussed. There's all sorts of little catches here and there in GRUB 2. Seems 9.10 is a test bed for hammering out changes.
=> Problem is knowing WHAT to write, as the WHAT either isn't clear, or is changing, or is being developed.
Oh, you say, the writers should experiment, then write it up. Ha! What do you think we do? Problem I'm seeing in GRUB 2 is that my experiment which works for me may not work for you.
And etcetera (a redundancy, yes, I know, but the exaggeration is intensional).


This package has 253 new bugs and 8 open questions.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...tatus:list=NEW
https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu...ld.status=OPEN


Kernels, removing from GRUB menu, Rog131:
HOWTO: Removing unnecessary entries from the grub menu list
http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3082556.0
=> talks about removing kernels.


Looks like there has been some recent work on the official Manual. Last edit was 10/10/09.
I haven't yet read the 12/29 edit, but it is encouraging to see someone trying. I rather doubt the Manual is anywhere near ready, though.
http://grub.enbug.org/Manual
GrubWiki: Manual (last edited 2009-12-29 05:08:17 by BruceBenson)


And kubicle took the glory out of my post as he hit the nail on the head, same conclusion I've come to this past few months regarding Living Happily With GRUB 2:

kubicle:
"The configuration in /etc/default/grub is currently not as good as it could be. I'm sure it'll get more versatile. I'd imagine the goal is to offer all config options in /etc/default/grub, which users can edit, without the need to touch anything else."

=> That's the key. The range of choices, the ease of use, the elegance of GRUB 2 must be embedded in the config file that anyone can use with a little basic guidance (the Manual?).
After that, we must rely on the impeccable performance of the following:
os-prober
and update-grub
or
grub-mkconfig -o [the place you want it]

A GUI would be nice.
Word has it that work is being started on a good GUI for GRUB 2 (SUM: Startup Manager).
We'll watch for that. Op-ed: If developed, it better be RDG (Real Damn Good); otherwise it can do more harm than good.


Finally, @cdupree, welcome to GRUB 2, and you are also welcome to pitch in with your tech writing skills. There's plenty of room for more how-to's; basically mine and Dave's seem to be the main ones going so far, along with the Ubuntu how-to, and I think we'd both tell you that it's not a job either of us covets to any great degree.

You could either do a general, comprehensive how-to, or have fun with it and pick up some special topics. You know, like "cdupree's Guide to GRUB 2 Tips & Tricks." Something like that, brainstorming a bit here. At Kubuntu, it would go under Documentation > How To's: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?board=53.0
Something to think about.

There ya go.




btw, re Memtest, I am sure ( ? ) that Dave addressed the issue of removing duplicate Memtest entries in the boot menu ... (my brain won't go there this fine morning) ...

btw#2, back to Reply #11:
#! /bin/sh -e
# grub-mkconfig helper script.

That is a GRUB 2 system file! Sure don't wanna edit it