No update notifications since upgrade

[7penselen]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

More of the same.

After I conclude update-notifier is not working I blame it in my eyes horrible package-manager KPackagekit, so I remove kpackagekit and update-notifier-kde and I replace them with synaptic and update-notifier (GTK), but that won't solve the problems. It is a bit crazy I have to check manually if there are new updates.

NOTE: My system is a fresh install of Kubuntu 9.10 AMD64 on a single-core AMD64 chip.

[Bubbleman]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

I'm thinking we can conclude at this point that there is a bug somewhere, between update-notifier-kde and kpackagekit. I'm betting on update-notifier-kde.

[GreyGeek]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

In Systemsettings, under the General Tab, is the "Notifications" icon. It displays a dialog which allows you to choose "System Notifications". On its dialog is the "Event Source". Chose KPackageKit. Below is a property called "New Updates Available". Select it. In the space below is several settings. Make sure "Show a Message in popup" is checked. There are several other options there. Set them to your wishes.

Another "Event Source" is the "Update Notification Daemon". Make sure its popup dialog is checked.

On the Systemsettings Advanced Tab is the "Services Manager" icon. It opens a dialog with two panels. In the bottom panel are the "Startup Services". Make sure the "KPackageKit Service" is checked. Other than Systemsettings, I don't know of another services editing utility for KDE4 that is in the repository.

The application sysv-rc-conf allows enabling and disabling of system services, but KDE controls its own services, which are not running when the desktop is not running, so sysv-rc-conf won't be of help with the KPackageKit update notifications.

[GreyGeek]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

I'm thinking we can conclude at this point that there is a bug somewhere, between update-notifier-kde and kpackagekit. I'm betting on update-notifier-kde.

Only if it fails to work for everybody, but Update notifications are working fine for me and most other people. It could be related to using a bad LiveCD, or installing software not in the repository, or inadvertent activity by the user... the list is long. In another message a person complained the Kubuntu wasn't "Stable, Social and Beautiful" because his installation was crashing several times a day. It seemed that his kernel gives him "serious error msgs" every time it boots, but he ignored them, and blamed Kubuntu for what is obviously a bad install.

Or, perhaps it is hardware related. For those having a problem which isn't related to running a system installed with a LiveCD that wasn't checked, what box are you running Kubuntu on?

[ds_shellback]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

Thanks for that GreyGeek - I went through all of the items you listed and all are checked as you indicated.
I've got no problem at all with my kubuntu installation other than nagging doubts about the update notifications. Reading through the ubuntu and kubuntu 9.10 release notes am I right in thinking that the way notifications are presented and the frequency with which they are presented has changed with the release of Karmic Koala? Particularly with reference to KDE.
Perhaps we've all got used to the "gear" icon which wouldn't go away until you applied the available updates?
If you reboot the system everyday, as I do, when will updates be checked for? How do I find out?

[GreyGeek]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

.....
I've got no problem at all with my kubuntu installation other than nagging doubts about the update notifications.
....
If you reboot the system everyday, as I do, when will updates be checked for? How do I find out?

When I first moved to Kubuntu the apparently erratic nature of the updates was confusing. But, in Linux, job schedules are run by services, of which cron in one.

Telling cron what to do is by creating cron scripts that are stored in the appropriate cron directories:
/etc/cron.d
/etc/cron.hourly
/etc/cron.daily
/etc/cron.weekly
/etc/cron.monthly

You can "man cron" for more information on how to write the scripts, or on how to interpret the ones that already exist.

To answer your question: the /etc/cron.daily/apt script is fired daily, obviously. The documentation in that file states:

# Create /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02periodic file to set your preference.

but the actual file is

/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic

It contains:

APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
APT::Periodic:ownload-Upgradeable-Packages "0";
APT::Periodic::AutocleanInterval "0";
APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "0";

The first line is set to "1", indicating that an update of the package list is done every day:

# APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "0";
# - Do "apt-get update" automatically every n-days (0=disable)

Other options not shown in 10periodic are discussed in the documentation in the /etc/cron.daily/apt script. The comments fairly well explain what the settings do. While the apt script contains code for handling all the possible settings discusssed in its documentation, only three settings are in 10periodic.

The directory

/var/lib/apt/periodic

contains two files:
update-stamp
update-success-stamp

The timestamp on those files indicate when the last update was tried and when it was successful. The timestamp on update-success-stamp should be follow the timestamp on update-stamp by as much time as the updates took. The timestamp on my update-success-stamp is 11/04/09 11:03 am. Tomorrow the cron apt script will test the current time

stamp=$(date --date=$(date -r $stamp_file --iso-8601) +%s 2>/dev/null)
...
now=$(date --date=$(date --iso-8601) +%s 2>/dev/null)
...
delta=$(($now-$stamp))
# intervall is in days,

interval=$(($interval*60*60*24))
#echo "stampfile: $1"
#echo "interval=$interval, now=$now, stamp=$stamp, delta=$delta"
...
UPDATE_STAMP=/var/lib/apt/periodic/update-stamp
if check_stamp $UPDATE_STAMP $UpdateInterval; then

That's probably more than you wanted to know, but there it is. You can change the timestamp on update-stamp by using the "touch" command using sudo, but it is just as easy to open KPackageKit and click on the update icon on its dialog. Or, use Synaptic.

Or, just be patient. It works! 8)

[chessmani]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

Just to tell you I've got the same issue and everything's checked.

[GreyGeek]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

Except, as I explained in my previous post, there is no "issue".

Just be patient. Sometimes, when developers upload updated applications they don't put all the necessary files up there all at once. When things are ready the notification process will do its job.

but, like I said, if you are impatient, you can always use KPackageKit or Synaptic (or apt-get) to do an immediate upgrade, but don't be surprised if you get a dependency problem or an abnormal end to the process because not all necessary pkgs have been uploaded by the developers. That's no cause for alarm, however, all you have to do is repeat the process a little while later.

[tnorris]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

I don't agree there's no issue. I checked through all the cron jobs and went through each script to see what it does and my conclusion is that while the check for updates process is working correctly, what isn't working correctly is the subsequent notification that should appear.

On at least 2 occasions since upgrading to KK, there have been updates waiting in KPackageKit when I opened it, but there was no notification prior to opening it.

At the moment I don't have any updates waiting so I can't check the linkage between apt and the update-notifier. Once there are though, I'm going to try and work out where it's broken.

[GreyGeek]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

.....

At the moment I don't have any updates waiting so I can't check the linkage between apt and the update-notifier. Once there are though, I'm going to try and work out where it's broken.

Super!

Way to volunteer! 8)

[tnorris]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

Here's an interesting planet KDE post somewhat related to this:

http://jontheechidna.wordpress.com/2...cation-helper/

In particular this statement:
"... In Kubuntu 9.10 update notification was taken over by KPackageKit,..."

If that's true, then there's no point in trying to debug update-notifier-kde for this.

[Adrian]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

In Systemsettings, under the General Tab, is the "Notifications" icon. It displays a dialog which allows you to choose "System Notifications". On its dialog is the "Event Source". Chose KPackageKit. Below is a property called "New Updates Available". Select it. In the space below is several settings. Make sure "Show a Message in popup" is checked. There are several other options there. Set them to your wishes.

Another "Event Source" is the "Update Notification Daemon". Make sure its popup dialog is checked.

On the Systemsettings Advanced Tab is the "Services Manager" icon. It opens a dialog with two panels. In the bottom panel are the "Startup Services". Make sure the "KPackageKit Service" is checked. Other than Systemsettings, I don't know of another services editing utility for KDE4 that is in the repository.

The application sysv-rc-conf allows enabling and disabling of system services, but KDE controls its own services, which are not running when the desktop is not running, so sysv-rc-conf won't be of help with the KPackageKit update notifications.

Yep, all of those are enabled, however I still don't get a notification.

[ds_shellback]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

Thanks GreyGeek, when I got home tonight checked the update timestamps immediately I turned on the system and got the a list showing yesterdays date. Then, wouldn't you know it, a little icon appeared in the system tray saying resolving dependencies, and a popup appeared stating there was 13 bug fixes available.
On rechecking the file dates - hey they've got today's date. YIPPEE!!!

david@KDE003:/var/lib/apt/periodic$ ls -l
total 0
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-11-04 18:37 update-stamp
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-11-04 18:37 update-success-stamp
david@KDE003:/var/lib/apt/periodic$ ls -l
total 0
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-11-05 17:32 update-stamp
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-11-05 17:31 update-success-stamp


Now here's the thing the popup message was only on screen for less than 10 seconds and is now sitting in the system tray "Notifications and jobs". So no glaringly obvious gear icon but at least it's working - as you said, a little patience.

The notifications have changed from 9.04 to 9.10.

If you RIGHT click on system tray and choose "System Tray Settings" you get a window which allows you to choose either "KDE Notifications" or "Avatana Notifications".

Mine is set to "KDE Notifications" - can you tell me what yours is set to?

[Bubbleman]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

I still believe there is an issue. I have checked all the settings you have posted before, on my own. They're all set to do the popup. How long exactly should one wait? I've been running since beta and there has never ONCE been a time that I've gotten a system notification that there are updates. And that's after waiting several weeks and wondering if something was up with the repository (only to find out there wasn't an there were a huge pile of updates waiting).

If, as someone mentioned, KPackageKit has taken over notifications, why then is update-notifier-kde still running on startup in the background? Why did they even bother updating it a few days back?

And as a QA person I very much disagree that "everyone must experience it" before it's a bug. I'm surrounded by developers who never see 90% of the bugs I find and report.

[tnorris]

Re: No update notifications since upgrade

My experience mirrors yours Bubbleman. I've been running KK since Beta and other than one notification I've never gotten another update notification. I believe update_notifier_kde has to continue to run because some notifications are still coming through it. For instance, I believe prompts to install codecs still come through update_notifier_kde. See this quote from the link I posted above:

In Kubuntu 9.04 Update Notifier KDE gained the abilities to notify the user of installable nonfree software such as the Flash plugin and MP3 codecs. In Kubuntu 9.10 update notification was taken over by KPackageKit, but since KPackageKit only covered software update notification, Update Notifier KDE was kept around to do everything else it does

ds_shellback, My /var/lib/apt/periodic files are getting bumped as well, so I know the update checks are happening, but I'm just not seeing the results. My notifications are also set to KDE Notifications. I also know my notifications are working in the general case because I get them for kopete and amarok (I'm running the amaroKnotify script) all the time.