9.10 is FRAGILE

[Agnus]

Hi, I want to express my frustration with the way you people at Canonical work out your releases. Things that have been working perfectly with previous releases, get completely ****ed up with the next "improved" one. I "upgraded" to 9.10 RC (cleanly by re-formating) and it breaks in so many ways! The worst thing is that this phenomenon is not an exception rather a pattern!

Have you tried the default 9.10 desktop on a standard 15" 1280x800 screen?
Have you noticed that that ****ty micro-bloging widget does not fit in vertically? Tried moving it around and see the strange layout effect it has on the folder view?
Have you noticed the strange layout the digital clock has? Tried changing some of its settings and see the difference?
Have you tried to change the desktop settings arbitrarily and see that half of the time something will crash or just fail to apply?

Have you tried to simply create desktop links!!!
Have you tried to drag n drop from the menu to the folder view!!

Have you tried setting the default desktop to folder-view with the oxygen theme? Did you notice that the icon fonts and colors chose to stick with the air theme instead after a restart?

Have you ever used the zoom-out functionality Have you noticed that it totally blows? Have you also noticed that the majority of the available widgets are semi-working useless crap, many of which also redundant ? Do you care about QUALITY? - Ok these are not new but anyway, if something doesn't work reliably just remove/disable it.

Do you ever exercise any usability tests? with normal people?

These are just some minor "papercuts" that can be observed withing 10 minutes and completely destroy the user experience! Then there are the more serious bugs for me. Like Eclipse not responding to button clicks on several dialogs and other bugs that I feel tired to mention. The whole thing feels simply amateurish. Certainly it does not feel solid.

Finally I am curious why does that happen? Do you start each new version from scratch by throwing out all the previous working code base? Do you control what goes in your packages? Do you review the code? Do you perform any serious testing with it?

[Agnus]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

I will also add that I had not the intension to insult you guys. I just feel frustrated because you seem to not put attention on the really important things (for me at least).

[dibl]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

I'm not insulted .... I also have nothing to do with Canonical. :P

This forum is completely independent and non-sponsored by Canonical. It is "users helping users". Uncompensated.

So, great rant! And if you'd care to break down the issues and post them one at a time, in your priority order, probably you'll find willing helpers here.

[Agnus]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

It isn't? Oh whatever, I feel kind of bad for ranting like this. It is free software after all.
It is just that in my work I always strive for perfection and I want my distro to also be of top quality so I can recommend it to my friends.

Sorry English is not my native language!

[GreyGeek]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

It isn't? Oh whatever, I feel kind of bad for ranting like this. It is free software after all.
It is just that in my work I always strive for perfection and I want my distro to also be of top quality so I can recommend it to my friends.

I have no doubt that the Kubuntu volunteers (developers, documentation writers, testers, etc...) strive, like you do, toward perfection. However, I have yet to see anyone walk on water.

As far as "recommending to friends" Kubuntu (Linux) gives your Windows using friends a choice:
1) Continue using Windows and risk getting your personal info stolen, your back account ransacked, your credit ruined and a debt that will take several years to pay off.

OR...

2) Run Linux (Kubuntu) and be safe in your online transactions and the security of your installation.

It's a "no brainer" to me.

Sorry English is not my native language!

You could have fooled me.... you write better than most of the native English writers!

About your complaints:

Kubuntu 9.10 with the latest updates is running nearly perfectly for me. I have only esoteric problems with the second page video graphics, but nothing getting in the way of using my GM45 video chip.

Did you burn your ISO at 10X or less and then test the CD to be sure it is good BEFORE you installed it?

[dibl]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

Here is the official Ubuntu statement on Karmic stability as of yesterday's RC release:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8142350

It is not inconsistent with the OP's experience, although I too wonder about the CD burn quality.

[Snowhog]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

...I want my distro to also be of top quality...

To be direct, and with no intention to put you down, why then, did you opt to install/upgrade to a release that is not final? Yes, a Release Candidate 'should' be solid in nearly all aspects, but it is still, even as an RC, "under development."

But I do agree with you, that an upgrade should be an "improvement" upon what already works, and not a product that (for some/many) seems to have gone backwards in core usability. I upgraded my fully functioning Kubuntu Intrepid running KDE 4.3.x, and lost compositing (I have a post on that here). My PC supports it, and it was working. After the upgrade, nada. So, I can't use the Advanced Desktop Effects I had been using and enjoyed. I'm hopeful that this will be re-enabled on some subsequent update.

[Bongo5HH]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

Well...

It seems like Kubuntu is getting worse with every release..

I'm actually thinking of just installing Ubuntu and putting KDE4 on it.... What a shame.

Kev

[GreyGeek]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

It seems like Kubuntu is getting worse with every release..

I began using Kubuntu 9.04 Alpha. It ran VERY well on this laptop. Now it is running Kubuntu 9.10 even better, so my experience is opposite of yours.

So, YMMV.

I have three laptops here and 32 bit Kubuntu 9.10 is running perfectly on all three of them and this one also has the 64 bit Kubuntu 9.10 running on it, which I am using now and in which I spend 99% of my time when I use this computer. Oh, have to include the Gateway m675prr that I gave to my Son. He is running Kubuntu 9.10 too and it is working perfectly. So, that's four. Then there is the 8 year old eMachine of one of my friends. He is 74, and while he has a few problems the Kubuntu 9.10 I installed on his eMachine doesn't have any. My best friend, who is nearing 60, is running Kubuntu 9.10 (I installed it) on his HP laptop. It is running without problems.

From my vantage point I can truthfully say that Kubuntu 9.10 is running better than any past version of Linux I have ever run and better than ANY version of Windows, including the VISTA Home edition which used to be on this notebook. And, it is working well for my friends, too.

But, in your case, for some as yet undetermined reasons, Kubuntu is not running on your machine as well as it is running on the three that I have, or on my Son's or my friends computers.

So, while I cannot say that Kubuntu 9.10 runs perfectly on every PC, your experience does not justify saying that Kubuntu doesn't work on any PC.

Clearly, there exist PCs on which Kubuntu won't install, or if it does install it doesn't run very well. But, I'd wager that at works 6 out of 7 times, in my experience.

[assettt]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

It seems like Kubuntu is getting worse with every release..

I began using Kubuntu 9.04 Alpha. It ran VERY well on this laptop. Now it is running Kubuntu 9.10 even better, so my experience is opposite of yours.

So, YMMV.

I have three laptops here and 32 bit Kubuntu 9.10 is running perfectly on all three of them and this one also has the 64 bit Kubuntu 9.10 running on it, which I am using now and in which I spend 99% of my time when I use this computer. Oh, have to include the Gateway m675prr that I gave to my Son. He is running Kubuntu 9.10 too and it is working perfectly. So, that's four. Then there is the 8 year old eMachine of one of my friends. He is 74, and while he has a few problems the Kubuntu 9.10 I installed on his eMachine doesn't have any. My best friend, who is nearing 60, is running Kubuntu 9.10 (I installed it) on his HP laptop. It is running without problems.

From my vantage point I can truthfully say that Kubuntu 9.10 is running better than any past version of Linux I have ever run and better than ANY version of Windows, including the VISTA Home edition which used to be on this notebook. And, it is working well for my friends, too.

But, in your case, for some as yet undetermined reasons, Kubuntu is not running on your machine as well as it is running on the three that I have, or on my Son's or my friends computers.

So, while I cannot say that Kubuntu 9.10 runs perfectly on every PC, your experience does not justify saying that Kubuntu doesn't work on any PC.

Clearly, there exist PCs on which Kubuntu won't install, or if it does install it doesn't run very well. But, I'd wager that at works 6 out of 7 times, in my experience.

Very well said sir. And it's important to remember 9.10 is still a test version and things do break. As for expecting perfection from an OS you will have a long, long wait. Even Apple who design their OS specific to their hardware do get it wrong more times than I care to mention. In may case having been using Ubuntu for the last 3 years I can say it gets better with every release and I'm already looking forward for what comes after karmic.

[Teunis]

Re: 9.10 is FRAGILE

I don't really want to be part of a 'me too' but it has to be said Kubuntu works for most.
And the Ubuntu spirit kind of makes it an obligation to find and solve the problems for the remainder.

When I look at the list at the start of this thread I can only guess it's an odd piece or combination of hardware what causes the problems.
For I can not recall a similar experience on the Toshiba and HP computers I maintain but I did select them with Linux in mind.

For about a month now I run 9.10 as my main install and am very happy with it.
I did have usability problems with the first KDE4 release and for that reason I'm still having a separate 8.04 install with KDE3.5 but in a few weeks when 9.10 has settled I will probably replace it (8.04) with a new alpha or beta experiment.