ipv6 in network-manager

[oshunluvr]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

Interesting information and I appreciate your detail. I suspect "tunneling" was the wrong word to use. What I meant was: My modem connects to the internet - not my pc's. My PC's are connected to a switch that is then connected to the modem via it's built in router. As long as my ISP provides software at the modem/router level to handle the translation, most of the change over will be transparent to me. Just as is the current way the modem receives and transmits using an IP address that I am virtually unaware of. This is an opinion/guess - not an educated analysis! . The part I'm must be missing is in the current setup - the actual packets arriving and sending are not being translated - just redirected. In the IPv6 to IPv4 world translation will be required. My guess is they'll have to do provide some sort of translation ability like this for quite awhile. Otherwise, the number of devices rendered unusable is staggering - like DVR's and streaming Netflix boxes and the like.

I am unclear on one part: Your market analysis.

I haven't paid a single dime directly for a router or modem that came from an ISP in almost two decades. I'm unsure as to why you think the change over to IPv6 will all of a sudden change the market competition for Internet access. ISP's in my area figured out long ago that there was competition in the market and offering free installation and equipment was the best way to attract new customers.

With this method, they are able to get you to sign a long (1-2 years) contract and I'm sure that a very large percentage of consumers don't regularly shop around for a new ISP unless they move. Who wants a new email address every year and to have to wait for the installer to show up?

In fact - in my area - the last change my ISP (Verizon) made was to offer free equipment, free fiber optic run to my house, bundle my telephone and tv service, more than triple my internet access speed (actually upload went up by 10x) and my total monthly cost went down by $60 and they threw in an HP Netbook for free. They're hoping I'll stay after the contract expires at a slightly higher monthly cost and I'm hoping they don't raise it too much so I don't have to shop around again.

Actually, I doubt that the equipment installed for this change over (about 18 months ago) will need more than a software upgrade from them to switch to IPv6 and may in fact have been part of the reason for the available upgrade.

There's the rub. Who is going to make the firmware (wireless or modem mfgr) and how much will they sell it for, and in today's economy who can afford to pay the ransom prices you and I both know they will charge?

This just seems counter-intuitive to me. You could just as easily say "What provider will survive in this economy if they try to charge us massive fee increases on top of forcing us to pay for new hardware?" The current economic state (or the current perception of it) may in fact have the opposite effect from what you're proposing. Much in the same way the home buyers are buying only the best deals at rock bottom prices. No one is out upgrading their lifestyle these days. At least in my area; I doubt they'll be much if any cost to me and my neighbors or we'll all start using Starbucks and the connection at work until someone comes in with a better offer.

It will be interesting to watch this change-over and see how it goes.

[GreyGeek]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

While ISPs more often than not supply the modem as part of the sign up charge, the wireless router is usually purchased by the customer at their own expense, because the modem generally has only a single eth0 output for a DCE device, be it the user's computer or the user's wireless router.

It is the wireless router that see's the IP address that the ISP gave to the modem and using Linux, in some devices, sets up the wireless router as a "computer" using DHCP with Ipforwarding and masquerading to allow one IP from the ISP to carry multiple local IPs from the computers, with the aid of NAT and the DCE's MAC.

Now, with the ISP's modem being given a 128 byte IP address, in blocks of 4 bytes, from the ISP, that IPv6 address would be the IPv6 address of the DCE device attached to your modem, i.e., your computer. If you want to have more than one computer sharing that IPv6 IP address then your IPv6 compatible wireless router will have to contain the necessary DHCPv6 daemon, Ip6tables, etc, so that it can combine the IPv6 address with the MAC of the attached computers. But, therein lies the rub. In IPv6. as I understand it, there are NO local addresses. Every IPv6 address is visible from the entire network and with stateless auto-negotiation there won't be a need for "leasing" scare resources. You can attach or detach an IP address as your needs require.

During Phase One and Phase Two the current IPv4 wireless routers will be useful, but sooner or later IPv4 is going away and, IMO, wireless routers will be unnecessary, and the ISPs will see to it that they are and remain so. How? By designing their cable modems so that the modem is ALSO the wireless router, dispensing a set number of IPv6 addresses, remotely controlled by the ISP. Currently the IPv4 wireless router has one connection for the cable from the modem, and four connections that can be used to connect to PCs via Ethernet cable, in addition to the ability to make wireless connections. The ISP will combine their modem and the wireless into ONE box, to which the ISP cable will be attached. You plug in a computer to one of the back side eth ports and your PC will be given an IPv6 address instantly, and a counter inside the modem will keep track of how many PCs are connected. Your computer runs the dhcpv6 client and requests an IPv6 address, which it gets without "negotiating" because leases are not necessary -- addresses are in abundance. For each computer connected by cable or by wireless to the cable/wireless modem/router a count is maintained. When you reach the limit of the service you've agreed to plugging in another eth cable or running the dhcpv6 client again will fail to get an address. When a cable is unplugged or a computer shuts down the counter is decremented and another can attach. On cable MWR's attached to large bandwidth connections I can see a single eth cable going to a switch or hup connecting a hundred or more computers, or dozens of computers connected to the MWR wirelessly. ALL the ISP has to do is remotely set a counter limit in the MWR -- one size fits all. Cheap. High PROFIT.

What I don't see is how the iPad, Droid and other 3G devices are going to cope with IPv6 signals broadcasting from cell towers.

[oshunluvr]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

I didn't know that about the IPv6 addresses all being exposed - not sure I like that but it's not like I'm in charge of it.

Part of our difference of opinion on the hardware issues might be because we here in SoCal have been getting adsl modem/router/wireless in a single device for about six to eight years or so. I have an old programmable WRT54G that I gave to my son to use at his place. I doubt it has enough flash ram to hold the new software so I suppose it'll be a brick soon enough.

I see your point about the pricing scheme - they'll claim they never offered me more than one connection and try to charge me for more. However - it will be as all other things and eventually give in to market pressure and competition. It'll be interesting to see what's offered once the change over starts.

[Snowhog]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

I see it in simpler terms. IF the implamentation of IPv6 was going to 'disconnect' the established "world-wide" Internet user base - those with IPv4 address's; it would create the largest outcry in Human History, not to mention the loss of HUGE amounts of revenue. Therefore, I don't think we, the IPv4 users, are going to see any interuption in our ability to access the Internet when IPv6 is 'turned on.'

[GreyGeek]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

Maybe not, but it will give the ISPs an opportunity to charge more for an IPv4 connection, much more. I expect exorbitant greed to play a large roll in the conversion process.

The phase one and two parts will have to last as long as is necessary for PC makers to modify their eth0 and wireless chips to handle IPv6. Until then the "tunnel" to IPv6 will have to do. Inserting a software compatibility layer will slow things down. How much I don't know, but probably enough to make people complain.

So, this Sony VAIO VGN-FW140E will have to last until I give up computers or a decent, affordable PC with IPv6 chips comes on the market.

BTW, I read somewhere that France is 96% IPv6 already!

[Snowhog]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

BTW, I read somewhere that France is 96% IPv6 already!

When it comes to the Internet for 'the masses' here in the good 'ol US of A, we are a 'Third World' nation in to many ways, speed being the the most significant. :P

[GreyGeek]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

That's for sure.

I still have fiber optic cable buried in my front yard from 15 years ago when our community fathers decided that they had waited long enough for Time Warner to upgrade from Copper, so they began installing a community FO network with 40Mb/s speed for $15/mo, IIRC. TW and other telco and cable companies lobbied congress, which agreed that it was "unfair competition". So, they passed laws that prohibited such "competition" AND they gave the cable and telecos over $200 Billion to finish what the local governments had started. BUT, the law had no teeth to punish non-compliance, so the cable and telcos pocketed the money and "forgot" to finish the cable. Here we are, nearly 20 years later, a 3rd world country offering 12Mb/s Internet ONLY for $70, when 1st world countries are offering 10Gb/s and higher, with 200 channels of TV and unlimited cellphone service, for $30.

[Ole Juul]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

When it comes to the Internet for 'the masses' here in the good 'ol US of A, we are a 'Third World' nation in to many ways, speed being the the most significant. :P

I'm am aware of the situation with the US falling behind. Canada has fallen way behind as well. Not only that, but here in Coalmont where I live we only have 1.5Mbps wireless service. That is typical of rural areas where there's no cable and ADSL is out of the question. Here is a little article I wrote in my paper regarding that. The phone doesn't always work either. Of course it varies from locale to locale, but by continent Europe is at the top, Africa is at the bottom, and Coalmont is below that. I just think it's funny until I try to use Google street view - then it becomes obvious that there's a knot in the wire. lol

[GreyGeek]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

From the $200 Billion link I quoted:

...the FCC says America has the highest broadband deployment rate in the world and President Bush has set a goal of having broadband available to every U.S. home by the end of this year. What have these guys been smoking? Nothing, actually, they simply redefined "broadband" as any Internet service with a download speed of 200 kilobits per second or better. That's less than one percent the target speed set in 1994 that we were supposed to have achieved by 2000 under regulations that still remain in place.

Isn't that what liars and politicians always do -- move the goal posts in secret and then claim in public that the objective has been met?

[Snowhog]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

If we had a puking smilie, I'd use it! Anyone who believes that the United States doesn't have a King and a King's Court is living in fantasy land! A second American Revolution is coming. I just hope it arrives in time. :P

[GreyGeek]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

I happen to stumble across this ubuntu page on IPv6: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/IPv6

[Snowhog]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

Thank you. Just emailed my ISP asking about IPv6 availability.

[GreyGeek]

Re: ipv6 in network-manager

Here is a short, 10 things you should know about IPv6 article. It even includes info for Windows users.

10: Windows doesn’t fully support IPv6

It’s kind of ironic, but as hard as Microsoft has been pushing IPv6 adoption, Windows does not fully support IPv6 in all the ways you might expect. For example, in Windows, it is possible to include an IP address within a Universal Naming Convention (\\127.0.0.1\C$, for example). However, you can’t do this with IPv6 addresses because when Windows sees a colon, it assumes you’re referencing a drive letter.

To work around this issue, Microsoft has established a special domain for IPv6 address translation. If you want to include an IPv6 address within a Universal Naming Convention, you must replace the colons with dashes and append .ipv6.literal.net to the end of the address — for example, FE80-AB00–200D-617B.ipv6.literal.net.