LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

[Snowhog]

Currently dual-booting with Kubuntu 9.04 and Ubuntu 9.04, both using Grub (legacy). Kubuntu Karmic uses Grub2, yes? And on a new installation, you have no choice to choose Grub legacy, yes? Assuming yes to both, then my question is this: What happens to my two other OSs that use Grub legacy when I install Karmic? Can Grub2 be installed to a partition as apposed to the mbr, which is my preference, and which is what I've done when using Grub legacy.

Looking for some guidance and insight prior to committing to the installation of KK 9.10.

Thank you.

Added:
From Karmic - Kubuntuguide

Installing Kubuntu
Warning: Kubuntu Desktop edition installer no longer allows a custom installation of GRUB, and it now uses GRUB2, which allows very little customization. DO NOT USE the Karmic Koala Desktop edition if you use a boot partition, use multiple OS (more than 2), or chainload bootloaders. The Kubuntu installer will overwrite your Master Boot Record and you will later be forced to recreate it. This is a serious flaw in Karmic Koala. Use the Ubuntu Server edition instead (and then later add the kubuntu-desktop).
The Kubuntu Server edition installer does not have this problem, and, in general, I recommend its use instead (adding a kubuntu-desktop to the server afterwards).

Is the above factual?

[vinnywright]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

yes to both..........BUT you can install Karmic and chose not to install grub then just edit your curent grub to point to it..................................or go a head and install grub2 to the MBR of the primarey drive{if it will... it wouldent for me on 1 or 2 boxes}and after booting do sudo update-grub and the rest of your install's should get picked up and added to the boot list!! this did work on the test box after pulling the 2 additional drives so grub would have no choise but the MBR of the primarey drive {sence now it was the onley drive} then puting the other 2 back in and installing what ever I wanted...........incedentley an older alpha ver. of Karmic dident give me the trouble with whare to install grub like the curent one dose...........on the box in queshton

in your case I think I'd just install withought grub and edit my curent grub (legacy)

VINNY

[Snowhog]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

BUT you can install Karmic and chose not to install grub then just edit your curent grub to point to it

Are you sure about that? I didn't see any option to not install Grub2. I went as far, on the LiveCD Install, to select the partitions to use and then clicked on the Advanced button. It was on that screen that I saw the options as to where to install Grub2, but I didn't notice an option to not install Grub, which would seem wrong anyway, as without a boot loader, you wouldn't be able to start the installed OS. I'm pretty sure that the developers/packagers of the LiveCD would not have permitted that.

[vinnywright]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

give me a few ...........will test that now.

VINNY

[Snowhog]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

I saw it. It's there when you click the Advanced button. It's checked by default - Install boot loader. It's there that I can select where to install Grub2, at least, there is a selectable list of all the available partitions. So yes, you could uncheck the option to install the boot loader. If one does that, then that means you must utilize another boot loader to get to the Karmic partition, which in my case, would be either of the two other OSs Grub menu.lst files, yes? I would just add the standard entries for Karmic below ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST as in:

title Ubuntu GNU/Linux - Karmic 9.10
root (hd0,1)
chainloader +1

as in my situation, Karmic would be installed ( root ) on the second partition of my HD (/dev/sda2)

Would that be correct?

[vinnywright]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

at the sumery page of the install when you hit the advanced button to see/tell whare to put grub2 thars a checkbox ....install bootloader......uncheck it and no bootloader.

VINNY

[vinnywright]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

not shure how you have your grub set up mine is as folows using grub legacy.

grub in the MBR of sda

partitions as so

vinny@desktop:~$ sudo fdisk -l
[sudo] password for vinny:

Disk /dev/sda: 200.0 GB, 200049647616 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 24321 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x4b36bdea

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 570 4496 31543627+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda2 1 569 4570461 b W95 FAT32
/dev/sda3 4497 7073 20699752+ 83 Linux
/dev/sda4 7074 24321 138544560 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 7074 24183 137436043+ 83 Linux
/dev/sda6 24184 24321 1108453+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris

Partition table entries are not in disk order

menu.lst as so

vinny@desktop:~$ cat /boot/grub/menu.lst
# menu.lst - See: grub(8), info grub, update-grub(8)
# grub-install(8), grub-floppy(8),
# grub-md5-crypt, /usr/share/doc/grub
# and /usr/share/doc/grub-doc/.

## default num
# Set the default entry to the entry number NUM. Numbering starts from 0, and
# the entry number 0 is the default if the command is not used.
#
# You can specify 'saved' instead of a number. In this case, the default entry
# is the entry saved with the command 'savedefault'.
# WARNING: If you are using dmraid do not use 'savedefault' or your
# array will desync and will not let you boot your system.
default 0

## timeout sec
# Set a timeout, in SEC seconds, before automatically booting the default entry
# (normally the first entry defined).
timeout 10

## hiddenmenu
# Hides the menu by default (press ESC to see the menu)
#hiddenmenu

splashimage (hd0,2)/boot/grub/2.xpm.gz
foreground 00ff00
background ff00ff

# Pretty colours
#color cyan/blue white/blue

## password ['--md5'] passwd
# If used in the first section of a menu file, disable all interactive editing
# control (menu entry editor and command-line) and entries protected by the
# command 'lock'
# e.g. password topsecret
# password --md5 $1$gLhU0/$aW78kHK1QfV3P2b2znUoe/
# password topsecret

#
# examples
#
# title Windows 95/98/NT/2000
# root (hd0,0)
# makeactive
# chainloader +1
#
# title Linux
# root (hd0,1)
# kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 ro
#

#
# Put static boot stanzas before and/or after AUTOMAGIC KERNEL LIST

### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
## lines between the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST markers will be modified
## by the debian update-grub script except for the default options below

## DO NOT UNCOMMENT THEM, Just edit them to your needs

## ## Start Default Options ##
## default kernel options
## default kernel options for automagic boot options
## If you want special options for specific kernels use kopt_x_y_z
## where x.y.z is kernel version. Minor versions can be omitted.
## e.g. kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8=root=/dev/hdc1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8_2_686=root=/dev/hdc2 ro
# kopt=root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro

## default grub root device
## e.g. groot=(hd0,0)
# groot=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77

## should update-grub create alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. alternative=true
## alternative=false
# alternative=true

## should update-grub lock alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. lockalternative=true
## lockalternative=false
# lockalternative=false

## additional options to use with the default boot option, but not with the
## alternatives
## e.g. defoptions=vga=791 resume=/dev/hda5
# defoptions=quiet splash

## should update-grub lock old automagic boot options
## e.g. lockold=false
## lockold=true
# lockold=false

## Xen hypervisor options to use with the default Xen boot option
# xenhopt=

## Xen Linux kernel options to use with the default Xen boot option
# xenkopt=console=tty0

## altoption boot targets option
## multiple altoptions lines are allowed
## e.g. altoptions=(extra menu suffix) extra boot options
## altoptions=(recovery) single
# altoptions=(recovery mode) single

## controls how many kernels should be put into the menu.lst
## only counts the first occurence of a kernel, not the
## alternative kernel options
## e.g. howmany=all
## howmany=7
# howmany=all

## specify if running in Xen domU or have grub detect automatically
## update-grub will ignore non-xen kernels when running in domU and vice versa
## e.g. indomU=detect
## indomU=true
## indomU=false
# indomU=detect

## should update-grub create memtest86 boot option
## e.g. memtest86=true
## memtest86=false
# memtest86=true

## should update-grub adjust the value of the default booted system
## can be true or false
# updatedefaultentry=false

## should update-grub add savedefault to the default options
## can be true or false
# savedefault=false

## ## End Default Options ##

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-16-generic
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-16-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-16-generic
quiet

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-16-generic (recovery mode)
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-16-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-16-generic

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-15-generic
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-15-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-15-generic
quiet

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-15-generic (recovery mode)
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-15-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-15-generic

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-14-generic
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic
quiet

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-14-generic (recovery mode)
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-13-generic
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-13-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-13-generic
quiet

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-13-generic (recovery mode)
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-13-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-13-generic

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-12-generic
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-12-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-12-generic
quiet

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-12-generic (recovery mode)
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-12-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-12-generic

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.28-15-generic
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-15-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-15-generic
quiet

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.28-15-generic (recovery mode)
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-15-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-15-generic

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.28-11-generic
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-11-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-11-generic
quiet

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.28-11-generic (recovery mode)
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-11-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-11-generic

title Ubuntu 9.10, memtest86+
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
quiet

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sda1
title Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
savedefault
chainloader +1


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sda2
title Windows NT/2000/XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
savedefault
chainloader +1



vinny@desktop:~$

so your's would look more like

title Ubuntu 9.10, kernel 2.6.31-16-generic
uuid 0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-16-generic root=UUID=0ee90e7d-8196-414d-b049-a5b32b7d8b77 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-16-generic
quiet

of corse insted of UUID's you can use /dev/sdx and I'v even goten away with just pointing to the system links in root like

root (hd0,1) ......if thats the partition
kernel /vmlinuz
initrd /initrd.img

VINNY

[Qqmike]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

I wish I could help, but I've gotten gun shy about this GRUB 2 fiasco.
What worked for me apparently is NOT working for some other folks, and I'm convinced they know what they are doing, too. For example that Warning quoted in the first post--I didn't think was true, but others think it is; and as Vinny has discovered, some facts apply to alpha but not to the Final versions. Etc.

IF IT WERE ME, for better or for worse, I would have GRUB 2 placed in the Kubuntu root partition (in Summary Step > Advanced button) -- I would choose the sdxn where Kubuntu root is and hope it worked (it did work and does work for me).

That way, you could chainload GRUB 2 from GRUB Legacy as you proposed
title Ubuntu GNU/Linux - Karmic 9.10
root (hd0,1)
chainloader +1

You can NOT chainload that way unless GRUB 2 is installed to the boot sector of the Kubuntu root partition. And I doubt that configfile would work in this case because GRUB Legacy doesn't get GRUB 2 and vice versa.

Looks like Vinny has done more on this than I have to date.

[Qqmike]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

I would add that in one GRUB 2 experiment I left my system unbootable and the standard GRUB Legacy Super Grub Disk successfully fixed the GNU/LINUX boot.

[vinnywright]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

yes.......Mr Snowhog ......just how is you'r grub setup now.........are you chaneloading multipule grub install's??

I'v never done that or found it nesesarey even to have more than 1 grub install and allways to the MBR of the primarey drive.

from witch I have untill grub2 just hand edited the menu.lst to boot whatever I had for it

the little I'v done with grub2 (Qqmike is mutch to generous) has ben verey easy it wint like this.........

a desktop with 3 HD's

Kubuntu Karmic and grub2 on sda1 and sda-MBR

Ultimalinux on sdb1 no grub or lilo

sidux on sdc1 ....sidux would not let you not install grub so it wint in sdc-MBR but no mater as it never get's toutched

then booted back to Karmic opend a terminal and did update-grub .....or mabey sudo update-grub.......cant remember ........and all the linux's magicley apeard and were added to the boot options.

the Ultimalinux neaded /hdb in it's boot line insted of /sdb as grub2 made it to boot but that was trivial.

VINNY

[Snowhog]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

Just finished installing KK 9.10, electing to install the boot loader, to /dev/sda2, the root partition for KK. Install went without a hitch. I'm currently in JJ 9.04.

My setup (pre-KK 9.10) had Grub legacy installed to the root partitions for each OS - Kubuntu 9.04 and Ubuntu 9.04. I chainload to each from each /boot/grub/menu.lst:

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root

title Ubuntu GNU/Linux - Gnome
root (hd0,2)
chainloader +1

I'm going to add KK to my Kubuntu JJ as follows:

title Ubuntu GNU/Linux - Karmic 9.10
root (hd0,1)
chainloader +1

and reboot to see what happens. Will report back.

[Snowhog]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

Okay. Chainloading doesn't work, at least, as I've indicated. Nothing happens on the Grub Menu when I select Karmic.

Edited my /boot/grub/menu.lst to this:

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root

title Ubuntu GNU/Linux - Karmic 9.10
uuid 08f00a33-6f71-4b5e-b6fa-cd3576293c55
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=08f00a33-6f71-4b5e-b6fa-cd3576293c55 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic
quiet

Rebooting and trying again.

[Qqmike]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

You could use a live CD to re-install GRUB 2 to that same partition, then try it.
It's got to work IF GRUB 2 is in fact in that partition boot sector.

If you got a blank screen, maybe with a blinking "-" in the upper left corner, I'd wonder if there's a time delay before it will work--It might take awhile, even a long while.
Like this bug for GRUB 2 on multiple drives:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...b2/+bug/420933

But, first, I'd try to re-install GRUB 2 to that partition and do it again.


(hd0,2) is in GRUB Legacy lingo = the 3rd partition, right?

[vinnywright]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

right grub1 starts with 0 for partition 1 like (hd0,0) = sda1

VINNY

[Snowhog]

Re: LiveCD install and Grub2 placement

The change to Jaunty 9.04 /boot/grub/menu.lst in my last reply works. I'm in Karmic 9.10 as I type. Of course, this way doesn't allow for accessing the Grub2 'menu' which is what I want to be able to do. Otherwise, I have to actively edit my existing Grub legacy menu.lst files anytime a new KK kernel is installed.

Suggestions?