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**doctordruidphd** · Nov 26, 2009, 09:16 PM

Re: Graphics & Boot Issues on upgrade.......... AGAIN

See the HOWTO here:

http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3107406.0

Depending on how you installed your video driver, yes, you may have to reinstall it with every kernel upgrade, and often with xorg upgrades as well. If you installed the "official NVIDIA way", you will need to reinstall each time.

Since your driver is not working, you might want to try the latest driver (190.42) and see if that works any better, if your card is supported by it.

Can't edit xorg.conf because of file permission issues (I am root at the terminal before x starts)

From my system:

Code:

greenman@Wolfenstein:~$ ls -al /etc/X11/xorg.conf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1944 2009-11-18 14:09 /etc/X11/xorg.conf

If your doesn't have 'rw' in the first position, then you need to:

Code:

sudo chmod o+w /etc/X11/xorg.conf

Otherwise, I don't see why you can't edit it as root. Unless you are trying to use a gui editor as root, in which case you would need to use it prefaced with 'kdesudo', i.e.,

Code:

kdesudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf

Hope this is of some help. I agree, the video driver problems can be frustrating, and could be made smoother.

**Telengard** · Nov 26, 2009, 10:17 PM

Re: Graphics & Boot Issues on upgrade.......... AGAIN

Originally posted by boardfoot

Just upgraded as suggested from a perfectly working 9.04 to 9.10 in hopes that a few KDE issues would be solved. WHAMO..... graphics and boot issues....... AGAIN

I haven't faced this problem yet. Maybe because I never upgrade to the newest Kubuntu release. I always perform a fresh install when I want a new release of Kubuntu.

I really hate to rag guys... but this is getting frustrating... lets fix this #1 problem for good... maybe we get some new users in mass as a result.

The real #1 problem is that Microsoft has a majority market share

doctordruidphd's advice seems pretty sound. When you get a new kernel you usually have to recompile a few modules that didn't make the transition. Hopefully it isn't quite so painful as you have made it out to be, but if you continue having problems then keep adding details here and someone will likely be able to help.

**claydoh** · Nov 26, 2009, 10:49 PM

Re: Graphics & Boot Issues on upgrade.......... AGAIN

you can't use nano to edit the xorg.conf ?

Code:

sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf

You can do this after logging in at the command prompt, or by entering recovery mode at your boot menu - there will be a prompt to enter a root console there . Then you can revert your xorg.conf back to the 'nv' driver. I think that even deleting or renaming the file might get you able to get to the gui.

Actually, one thing to check is to see if you are booting to the 9.10 kernel - there is/was a bug where users' systems were booting to the Jaunty kernel - the nvidia drivers definitely would not work in this case as the packages are kernel-specific.

One unfortunate thing to remember is that these Nvidia drivers are proprietary, so Linux distributions have little control over them. The real fact of the matter, though, is that there are so many different card combinations used on so many different motherboards that it is entirely possible that upgrades using some of some of these different hardware combinations were not well tested by users (us, that is).

**boardfoot** · Nov 29, 2009, 03:13 PM

Re: Graphics & Boot Issues on upgrade.......... AGAIN

There didn't seem to be anything going right on that upgrade for me. Couldn't nano anything, nothing would download/update, etc. I mean it was a miracle to get it to boot.

So I reserved myself to a reinstall. Grabbed the alternate CD and installed overtop. Still had the same problems. Nothing would work.

So I formatted my root partition and installed a completely fresh 9.10 from the live CD. Voila... it worked.

So my solution is to format the partition and install fresh. All other attempts failed.

I still love the OS... still am an active promoter of the OS, but I am still of the opinion that the upgrade modules need a rethink and that the video driver issue needs an overhaul. Blank screens on boot need to be ELIMINATED. I venture to liken this issue worse than the BSOD imho.

Anyone without the linux experience (mine is minimal) and experienced this problem would have thrown the arms up in the air and reverted back to that other abomination of an OS. "If you're going to have problems on both OSes... you may as well have problems with the one you're most familiar with, since it is that OS that you are most likely to have recourse you understand, and/or people to call upon for help." As it was accurately stated in this thread... its the other OS that has market share and thus the familiarity and the people.

Ergo... it is even more prudent that we have these install/upgrade eliminated if we want to win some share.

Sorry to get all philisophical and rantish, I'm just shocked and frustrated that we are still dealing with the same achilles heel version after version.

Regards,

Jason

**GreyGeek** · Nov 29, 2009, 06:42 PM

Re: Graphics & Boot Issues on upgrade.......... AGAIN

Originally posted by boardfoot

...
So I formatted my root partition and installed a completely fresh 9.10 from the live CD. Voila... it worked.

So my solution is to format the partition and install fresh. All other attempts failed.

Always the route to take for the most trouble free installation, AFTER one verifies the md5sum on the ISO and runs the "Check LiveCD for errors" option on the LiveCD menu.

I still love the OS... still am an active promoter of the OS, but I am still of the opinion that the upgrade modules need a rethink and that the video driver issue needs an overhaul. Blank screens on boot need to be ELIMINATED. I venture to liken this issue worse than the BSOD imho.

Glad to hear it. BSOD, blank screens,,,, all the same, especially to a newbie.

You should understand, however, that unless you bought your PC with Linux PRE-INSTALLED, which isn't very likely, you have to do what 78% of the PC users (Windows users) in the USA do NOT have to do -- install an OS from scratch AFTER downloading and burning the ISO, and burning it correctly.

Without working 3rd party vendor supplied drivers for video, printers, modems, etc., Linux developers have to reverse engineer those drivers on their own, or begin with the paltry contributions like that which Intel gave for the GM45 chipset, for example, and then try to hammer out a working driver for the large range of OEM PCs into which the chipset was put. Each OEM does not integrate the same chipset into their MOBO & hardware the same way.

Despite those handicaps, the MIRACLE of it all is that Linux installs reliably on more platforms that any other OS and communicates with MORE peripheral devices than any other OS, especially the older hardware.

This forum is a HELP forum. We rarely get praise postings. And, we rarely get a request for help from the majority of Kubuntu users precisely because a majority of the users have no problems installing Kubuntu.

Anyone without the linux experience (mine is minimal) and experienced this problem would have thrown the arms up in the air and reverted back to that other abomination of an OS. "If you're going to have problems on both OSes... you may as well have problems with the one you're most familiar with, since it is that OS that you are most likely to have recourse you understand, and/or people to call upon for help."

I imagine that anyone with no Linux experience that has the problems you've had might just throw up their hand and march back to Windows and resume the Russian Roulette experience of trying to keep their personal info, finances, reputation and credit scores safe, despite the fact that Microsoft won't tell them in a timely manner, if ever, what security holes exist on their Windows installation. That's how 1,000,000+ Windows bot farms get created.

BUT, you haven't. You came here. It is probably JUST BECAUSE you are "most familiar" with Windows that you aren't going back to it ... yet. BTW, have you noticed that we often get questions from Windows users here? Apparently the help they get from the Windows support system is inadequate or cost too much, or involves the same expense over and over and over.... cleaning malware from their system OR completely reinstalling their OS from scratch. I've found VERY FEW Windows users who can reinstall Windows from scratch, or even diagnose symptoms correctly. Most really don't even know the difference between Windows Explorer and Internet Explorer. In fact, I support over a dozen PCs owned by folks nearly as old or older than I am (68) and ALL of them were running Windows and they were constantly shelling out cash for apps and services to "prevent" malware infections, clean up afterward, or to reinstall Windows as a final "cure". The MSCE's don't care -- they depend on Windows lack of security as a guaranteed revenue stream. In one case even reinstalling didn't work because the Trojan keyboard logger was vectored from the MBR, and that rarely gets overwritten during refreshes or reinstalls. Another logger stored itself in the hidden, unlabeled 5GB "Windows backup directory", which is used to "recover" or re-install Windows. Using that recovery utility just re-installed the keyboard logger, leaving a false sense of security. Only a total bit-level reformat of the entire HD removed it, and any chance of reinstalling Windows. Didn't matter though. Now, they are ALL running Linux, and for over a year NONE of them have called with any malware infections, hardware or usage problems save one, the oldest (77), who has retention problems trying to remember how to do certain trivial but not often done tasks. Remembering "sudo" is his big problem. He bribes me with chocolate covered peanuts! Most are retired and couldn't afford to pay for what I was volunteering to do for free. Before I convinced them to install Linux ("I don't do Windows any more"

) I was visiting each of them about 4 or 5 times a year or more, cleaning out malware, spyware, tracking cookies, etc., or reinstalling drivers or even Windows ... until I got tired of it.

That's why you are here.

As it was accurately stated in this thread... its the other OS that has market share and thus the familiarity and the people.

According to Steve Ballmer, in a talk he gave last February, Apple has 10% of the Desktop marketshare and Linux has 12%. That leaves only 78% for Windows. I won't argue with Steve. That "NetworkApplications" site that quotes the Linux desktop market share as "1%" makes their income by selling rebranded Windows executables, a revenue stream which has no future in a Linux world. It's the same as "Independent Analysts" recommending Windows solution, there is more money in it.

Ergo... it is even more prudent that we have these install/upgrade eliminated if we want to win some share.

Linux and FOSS is mostly volunteer supported and funded. Grab a shovel and start helping!

Sorry to get all philisophical and rantish, I'm just shocked and frustrated that we are still dealing with the same achilles heel version after version.

It's NOT the "same heel". Technology improves each year, which results in newer hardware and devices that require new drivers being released with each improvment in hardware. IF improvement hadn't happened I'd still be using an Apple ][+, or worse, a TRS-80. Now I am running a Sony VAIO FGN-140E/H netbook with Centrino2, 3GB, GM45 and 1900X600 1080p display. The Intel GM45 video chip was also brand new when I bought this box last August. The Linux driver source Intel released for this GM45 chip didn't work in all hardware that incorporated the GM45. While Microsoft and Intel work hand-in-glove to get out drivers for hardware running windows, and I wouldn't doubt that money changes hands, Intel doesn't give the same concern to Linux.

I mentioned "shovels" earlier. When a Linux developer releases code the Linux community becomes the quality control by testing the code and filing bug reports on the appropriate bugzilla in order to help the developer and contribute to the community. You don't have to be a coder to help. Making code better helps every user. That's the trade-off. That is also why you'll hear "release early, release often". Doing so improves the reliability of the code. Rants in forums do not constitute a valid bug report -- they are usually void of helpful information and developers cannot search the thousands of forums, blogs, lists, etc, to glean out a minuscule number of posts with valid bug information.

Unfortunately, some hardware vendors have even written code into their BIOS to check for the Linux OS and randomly crash if it is found:

If (CondRefOf (_OSI, Local1))
{
If (_OSI ("Windows 2000"))
{
Store (0x04, OSVR)
}

If (_OSI ("Windows 2001"))
{
Store (Zero, OSVR)
}

If (_OSI ("Windows 2001 SP1"))
{
Store (Zero, OSVR)
}

If (_OSI ("Windows 2001 SP2"))
{
Store (Zero, OSVR)
}

If (_OSI ("Windows 2001.1"))
{
Store (Zero, OSVR)
}

If (_OSI ("Windows 2001.1 SP1"))
{
Store (Zero, OSVR)
}

If (_OSI ("Windows 2006"))
{
Store (Zero, OSVR)
}

If (_OSI ("Linux"))
{
Store (0x3, OSVR)
}
}
Else
{
If (MCTH (_OS, "Microsoft Windows NT"))
{
Store (0x04, OSVR)
}
Else
{
If (MCTH (_OS, "Microsoft WindowsME: Millennium Edition"))
{
Store (0x02, OSVR)
}
}
}

Return (OSVR)
}

Replacing "0x3" with "Zero" for the Linux test, AND the 7 occurrences of

dsdt.dsl 6467: Acquire (MUTE, 0x03E8)
Warning 1103 - ^ Possible operator timeout is ignored

with

Acquire (MUTE, 0x03E8) and replace with Acquire (MUTE, 0xFFFF)

which:

These are bogus mutes that are harmless to Windows (it ignores them), but crash Linux sporadically, soooo....

... it appears they're trying to crash the kernel by locking a region of memory that shouldn't be locked,[/b] but without access to their source code comments, I can only speculate, this tells it to lock a memory address that is always reserved instead.

I have no doubt that Foxconn wasn't/isn't the only ones doing this. The motive would probably reveal itself if we could follow the money.

Then, folks come to this and other Linux forums complaining that Windows runs OK on their hardware but Linux crashes randomly, ergo, Linux is trash ... AGAIN.

**boardfoot** · Nov 29, 2009, 08:00 PM

Re: Graphics & Boot Issues on upgrade.......... AGAIN

Touche Grey Geek.

You are right, this is a help forum, and I did get a few suggestions even void of specific configuration information. More than I got from from that Redmond offering in 16+ years of use and programming I spent there.

I am aware of the trials and tribulations Linux faces in the wild and I do appreciate all of the hard work the developers put in.

Indeed it is because I know this that I get a little worked up over something that should *seemingly* be avoidable. All that hard work to be undermined by a blank screen.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that perhaps some visual cues or some operational checks after the new user has pulled his pants down around his ankles and presses the upgrade buttons would be prudent.

In itself I am proposing temporary bloatware that would run a series of diagnostics on the upgrade before it writes it into stone. If it doesn't work... revert to a base default that whilst being limited in bling function... is almost globally functional (like VESA). If confirmed to work... erase boot script and let the ferrari purr. If it doesn't... give some visual recourse to rectify or troubleshoot.

Lest we forget the most important task... attract and keep new users. Everything else falls in place after that. It takes numbers to get out of the "fringe status".

We're off the help topic so I'll stop now. Sorry gang.

Thanks for reading. Thanks for replying. Thanks for helping. Great advice from you all.

Problem solution:

1) Install OS on 1 partition.
2) Install Home directory on another partition
3) Install SWAP on yet another partition
3) Whipe OS clean and do a fresh install (instead of running upgrade script)

Have to say... 9.1 looks and works good after the above 4 steps (for me anyways). Picked up all my settings/etc. and I didn't miss a beat. Lesson learned.

Regards,

Jason

**GreyGeek** · Nov 29, 2009, 09:18 PM

Re: Graphics & Boot Issues on upgrade.......... AGAIN

Originally posted by boardfoot

.....
I suppose what I am trying to say is that perhaps some visual cues or some operational checks after the new user has pulled his pants down around his ankles and presses the upgrade buttons would be prudent.

One useful tool is apt-get. One set of parameters for it are:

-s, --simulate, --just-print, --dry-run, --recon, --no-act
No action; perform a simulation of events that would occur but do not actually change the system. Configuration Item: APT::Get::Simulate.

That may not help in all cases but if you see error msgs or warnings going by you should act accordingly.

The automatic upgrades I let KPackageKit take, automatically. Synaptic, however, has a history list showing the date and names of packages installed. This is handy when you want to reverse out some packages and its dependencies. Also, "sudo apt-get autoremove" cleans out orphans.

Welcome aboard, Jason!

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Graphics & Boot Issues on upgrade.......... AGAIN

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