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    "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

    I'm running Karmic Koala on an Acer Aspire 3100 laptop with 2GB of memory, a 250GB hard drive, and a 1.8GHz (single core) processor. The builtin video support is an ATI Radeon Xpress 1100. A respectable year-old machine, if not the latest and greatest. And it is grinding to a halt under KDE4, almost literally.

    The most recent symptom was the message "KDE compositing was too slow and has been disabled". So my system is apparently insufficient for the demands of the default version of KDE4. But that is only the latest in a recent string of disasters that I attribute to system overload. The most vexing one came when I was running VirtualBox with a Win 2000 Pro guest, and the installation of the OS simply slowed down and stopped, along with almost everything else that was running.

    The favorite description of the KDE visual interface seems to be "way cool", and I won't dispute that in general. But unless you have a system with octo cores, a hundred GB of RAM, a 10 GHz processor, and the finest video card ATI or whoever is turning out now, it isn't way cool because no way can a system that moves like an asthmatic turtle be way cool no matter how elegant and beautiful the eye candy.

    Until KDE4 came out and became the Kubuntu default, I was happily using KDE3. I managed to stick it out for a while with the KDE3 compatibility package until that became too awkward because of software that had become unusable because it was out of date. So I bit the bullet and moved to KDE4. And since then I've had nothing but trouble with the OS.

    We've seen this happen before, and its name is Vista. Microsoft thought they too had the latest and greatest (in their own world, at least) and fell flat on their faces. Hardware inadequacies, driver incompatibilities and such helped to sink Vista. Awkward usage, where accessing almost anything required overriding a safety protection, did the rest. When Microsoft discovered that much of their world was hanging onto XP for dear life, they realized they had made a big, big mistake.

    The word for what KDE4 has done is "overreach". KDE4 involved two things at once: a major paradigm shift and an enormous increase in the hardware resources required to run it acceptably. I've looked on Google at some of the threads about the "compositing was too slow" issue and discovered that the developers are squabbling among themselves as to who is responsible for the problems.

    It could have been done differently. The defaults could have been chosen for maximum backwards compatibility with KDE3 and minimal use of resources, with upgrades to the fancier stuff as an option. For instance, compositing could have been off by default and the interface preconfigured to permit different colors for different desktops, something I've missed terribly and finally got working. But I still miss the KDE3 color gradients on the desktop, and I haven't heard a peep about how to get them in KDE4. Like the physicians say, "above all do no harm".

    Look, I love Linux. I've been using it for over ten years or maybe more, along with Windows when I'm forced to in order to do stuff that Linux, even with Wine, doesn't support, like TurboTax or decent CAD. Now I use virtual Windows machines -- minimal ones -- running under Linux to get the best of both worlds. And I still have an alternative to the KDE4 behemoth: Gnome. I may take it.

    There seems to be something approaching schizophrenia in the Linux world. On the one hand, Linux advocates say that anyone, even the most naive and casual user, should be able to use it instead of Windows. On the other hand they react with disdain when users encounter problems that they can't solve without considerable technical expertise. We can't have it both ways.

    #2
    Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

    Originally posted by pwabrahams
    But unless you have a system with octo cores, a hundred GB of RAM, a 10 GHz processor, and the finest video card ATI or whoever is turning out now, it isn't way cool because no way can a system that moves like an asthmatic turtle be way cool no matter how elegant and beautiful the eye candy.
    I'm sorry that you have such an unpleasant experience with KDE 4. That said though, your statement above is simply unfounded and untrue. I'm running KK w/KDE 4.3.2 and it's a beautiful thing. Full compositing. System is quick. My system specs:

    PC: Toshiba Satellite P105-S6147
    CPU: Intel Pentium Dual-Core T2060 1.6Ghz
    RAM: 2Gb
    GPU: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)

    This is in no way a top of the line PC. The GPU would be considered by many to be a dog - it definitely isn't for gaming! Yet, with these modest specs, KDE 4.3.2 runs very nicely.
    Windows no longer obstructs my view.
    Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

    Comment


      #3
      Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

      Here's an even slower successtory on the use of KDE 4.3.2:

      PC: Dell Latitude C640
      CPU: Mobile Intel Pentium 4-M 2.00 GHz
      RAM: 512 MB
      GPU: ATI Radeon Mobility M7 7500

      It doesn't run games but it does work with compositing. I must admit that I have done some work to get this going. In your case it also might be a question of the right settings (custum xorg.conf)

      Comment


        #4
        Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

        my laptop is even slower... it runs fine with karmic and kde 4.3.x

        600mhz celeron
        256mb ram (sdram 133mhz)
        10gb hd.
        old s3-savage using 8mb of video ram. tweaked my xorg.conf to get it out of 640*480 res. its current max is 800*600 (limit of the card and lcd in the laptop.)

        and if i remember corrrectly i can turn on the desktop effects, but i get transparency in a terminal at very least.

        i really don't use this machine very often but i figured it would be a good test for an older system w/ kubuntu 9.10 on it. but it works well enuff that i can use it for my daily tasks, as for games i have only tried ri-li and knetwalk on it and both worked.

        A paradime shift in the desktop for sure, more hw requirements im not so sure of that.. i had debain w/ kde3 on this laptop before putting kubuntu 9.10 on it. and both kde3 and kde4 seam to run about the same speed on this machine there was really no noticable speed difference, other then login time (kde4 does take longer to login).
        Mark Your Solved Issues [SOLVED]
        (top of thread: thread tools)

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          #5
          Different experiences

          So some people have had great success in using KDE4 on slower hardware -- and some have not. A search on "KDE compositing was too slow and has been disabled" shows that many others have encountered the same problem. I was using VirtualBox with a Win2K guest without difficulty under KDE3.5, so I don't think that is the problem. In fact, I was even using it earlier on with KDE4 -- so it seems that some kind of detritus has been clogging my system.

          Apparently the problem isn't inherent in KDE4 since the other people who responded to my post are very happy with it and haven't encountered the turtleization that I have. That raises the question of what the difference is. If we knew what causes some people to have this problem and other not to, we might know what the cure is.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

            In my case, I experienced poor performance - no compositing and a sluggish system - when I first tied Karmic 9.10. At that time, it was a system upgrade from an existing Jaunty 9.04. But recently, I tried the LiveCD Karmic 'Final' that I had downloaded. I was amazed that, on the same laptop, the LiveCD 'just worked.' Compositing worked. System was fast and responsive. Given that experience, I installed Karmic from the LiveCD onto a separate partition. So in my case, and maybe might be true with others, an upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic resulted in poor performance. But, a fresh install of Karmic worked as one would expect.
            Windows no longer obstructs my view.
            Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
            "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

            Comment


              #7
              Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

              when i upgraded from jaunty to karmic my system was just SLOW....., so i poped in that karmic live cd and booted in to wonderful karmic bliss (no pun intended). so i did a fresh install of Karmic kepting my /home & ~/.kde ,this produced a MUCH faster system.

              now i have a friend w/ a laptop thats got a dual core 64bit processor w/ 2gb ram and an ATI mobility X1300. that video card has been nothing but issues with any OS from xp, vista(pre-installed) then 8.04,8.10 & 9.04 ,it proformace was behind even my older geforce4 card..when he decided to upgrade to karmic we both expected more issues. however everything worked perfect on the live cd (including desktop effects). after the os was installed it runs 1000% better then any other os either him or i have tried w/ that laptop. so i can see how on some hardware there are problems, that otherwise would be difficult at best to predict.
              Mark Your Solved Issues [SOLVED]
              (top of thread: thread tools)

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                #8
                Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

                In my experience, sluggishness with KDE4 is nearly always due to graphics card/driver/xorg settings (getting things right may take a bit of investigative work, though).

                I have kubuntu on an old T41 (radeon9000, 1Gb RAM, 1.6GHz CPU), and it can run the effects just fine...but it did need a bit of work.

                Of course, KDE4 does not depend on fancy 3D effects, you can use it just fine with the effects disabled and get better performance with older hardware.

                You can get rid of the "compositing too slow" message by disabling functionality checks in SystemSettings>Desktop>Advanced (the message seems to be triggered by high load peaks and things like GPU power saving even if the effects generally work fine).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Advanced desktop settings

                  There are several other settings there: OpenGL mode, enable direct rendering, and Use VSync. Not being an expert on video card behavior, how can I go about setting those other settings intelligently?

                  This is a very common problem: how to know when a specialized setting you know nothing about might be inappropriate, and what to do about it. The same thing comes up with the numerous BIOS settings, though not on this laptop since it offers few choices.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

                    If I were you I would turn off desktop effects. Yes they are nice, but not absolutely necessary and they do slow things down a bit.

                    I have an intel 915 graphics card (dell inspiron 630m laptop 3.5 years old) and it runs okay with effects turned on but things are a bit snappier without them.

                    Isn't the linux support for ATI cards in a transition at the moment? That could certainly make a contribution to your problem. You might try hitting ctrl+esc and seeing how much xorg is using in the way of resources. I have known that happen following an upgrade of kde to the next version. If that is the case you could try renaming your /home/.kde folder to (say) .kde.old and logging out then back in. That will reconfigure kde and in some cases (eg mine!) has been known to have a positive effect. If it doesn't work then you can always reinstate the folder. If it does, you can then simply move any data in it trhat you need to the new .kde folder.

                    Also, while you have the system activity log window open, it's worth taking a look at whether something else is misbehaving.

                    HTH

                    ian

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

                      I am running a 32b KK 9.10 on an Acer Aspire 3690 which has a 1.6Ghz CPU and 1 Gb RAM. KK is very fast and stable. The destkop and compositing are OFF by default. I turned them on and Stellarium gives me 20 fps on a midrange 945GM Intel video chip. IF I turn off desktop effects and compositing my Stellarium speed nearly doubles.

                      Over all, pwabrahams, I believe your rant was unfair and threats to "move to GNOME" are childish. If you like GNOME then move to it. It is a fine desktop (as long as one can uninstall MONO and Moonlight).

                      Compositing is not a failure in KDE4. My Acer Aspire 3690 is good enough to have both the desktop effects and compositing, and they are running very well. Also, your claim that KDE developers were "squabbling" over who "was responsible for compositing failure" is false. You can go to the KDE developers list and do a search for "composite" and "compositing". The latter appears in only 95 messages between 2000 and today. The former in only 95 messages. None of the messages since 01/02/2007, when KDE4 was released, have arguments or blame casting about compositing. I don't know where you heard that but someone pulled some wool over your eyes.

                      Finally, if you think folks aren't having problems with Win7 you need to do another google search on the topic.
                      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

                        I have had problems with kubuntu karmic running on an older ATI card. The live version of ubuntu runs perfectly so there is clearly some problem with kde4 and some ATI cards. Whether the real problem is in kde4 or the drivers or xorg or somewhere else is irrelevant tbh.

                        I have installed openbox and run a kde/openbox session. It isn't perfect but at least it is now usable. If gnome works better for you then use that. I keep thinking of wiping kubuntu and installing ubuntu instead but may just wait until 10.04. I don't think it is worth struggling too long with an os that is causing you problems if there is a better alternative for you.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: "Compositing was too slow" and the KDE4 overreach

                          In my case, the problem definately has something to do with my HD2400 ATI Graphics card & the FGLRX driver.
                          With effects and compositing off everythings fine. Turn them on and it grinds to a halt.
                          However ive been experimenting with the latest 2.6.32.3 kernel which has support for ATI graphics integrated in it. If used together, with xorg-edgers ppa, there is a considerable speed boost, with visual effects & compositing on. This is still in development though, so could cause some problems, but ive heard it will be included in Lucid.

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