Buntus no longer support older ati cards?

[kbunt]

I tried Ubuntu 9.10 on my Thinkpad T41 but it boots up to the desktop and crashes. A total lockup as before. I tried the pre-releases, the Alpha and Beta and it basically did the same thing. There was only one version that booted but if you went to the settings and enabled desktop effects, it would lockup and crash. Now, I cannot even boot up the default desktop at all. I tried the F3 option as well trying to disable whatever and use basic settings.

I think Karmic is a failure and I can't see any reason to use Kubuntu ON IT either as it's based on an OS of developers who don't seem to care about users with older hardware. I'm sure the ATI card in the Thinkpad is at least one of the culprit but the ATI Radeon 9000 (aka RV250) is only supported by the open source driver so developers should have an easier time dealing with the card?

Anyway, I guess I'm just posting my experience as I'm curious what other users of similar hardware experienced.

I was comparing/considering either Debian or sidux as the OS to install (I am in the process of upgrading the hard drive) anyway so it is narrowed down now.

[kubicle]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

Anyway, I guess I'm just posting my experience as I'm curious what other users of similar hardware experienced.

I have karmic on a T41 (with the same graphics chip), and it works fine (desktop effects and all), though it's entirely possible to experience various graphical glitches out-of-the-box because of the new drm/xorg/radeon drivers in karmic. (The newer drivers should improve performance in especially older hardware, but they are still relatively new.)

Here's how my T41 is currently set up, graphic wise:
1. booting with 'nomodeset' to avoid using KMS (kernel mode setting) which currently seems to result in some graphical glitches on my machine (might be solvable otherwise, but I haven't had the inspiration to tinker with it much)...nomodeset can be set as a permanent boot option in /boot/grub/menu.lst or /etc/default/grub.cfg depending on whether you use GRUB or GRUB2 (don't forget to run 'sudo update-grub')
Note: I've seen KMS work just fine on other machines, so YMMV.
2. Some radeon driver tweaking in xorg.conf, in which this thread might be of help:
http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3107466.0

I think Karmic is a failure and I can't see any reason to use Kubuntu ON IT either as it's based on an OS of developers who don't seem to care about users with older hardware.

I'd say that is uncalled for...the newer drivers were put in to improve performance on older hardware (it could be a good or bad choice depending on your view-point...that is, whether they work for you or not), but definitely not because "developers don't care about older hardware".

[GreyGeek]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

Well, IMO, KK is a resounding SUCCESS!!!

Based on its behavior I'd say it is the best OS that has ever run on this Sony VAIO VGN-Fw140E/H, it is the best OS that has ever run on my other two Acer Aspire 3690's, it runs on the 5 year old Gateway m675prr that I gave my son, it runs well on an EIGHT year old eMachine my friend uses, just to name a few.

But, I have to admit, it did not run very fast on an eleven year old PIII 486SX with only 298MB of usable RAM. For that box I installed Xubuntu.

And, I suppose, you could go to the Linux Hardware database site and find out that some hardware just won't run Linux at all, or is distro specific. Even then, older hardware may have worked on previous distro releases but not on more recent. It just depends. Mandriva 2009 PWP would not give this Sony an accelerated video, but Kubuntu Jaunty did.

Here is the 6 year old data on the T41 laptop.

Find a distro that you like and, more importantly, works well with your T41.

[assettt]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

Well, IMO, KK is a resounding SUCCESS!!!

Based on its behavior I'd say it is the best OS that has ever run on this Sony VAIO VGN-Fw140E/H, it is the best OS that has ever run on my other two Acer Aspire 3690's, it runs on the 5 year old Gateway m675prr that I gave my son, it runs well on an EIGHT year old eMachine my friend uses, just to name a few.

But, I have to admit, it did not run very fast on an eleven year old PIII 486SX with only 298MB of usable RAM. For that box I installed Xubuntu.

And, I suppose, you could go to the Linux Hardware database site and find out that some hardware just won't run Linux at all, or is distro specific. Even then, older hardware may have worked on previous distro releases but not on more recent. It just depends. Mandriva 2009 PWP would not give this Sony an accelerated video, but Kubuntu Jaunty did.

Here is the 6 year old data on the T41 laptop.

Find a distro that you like and, more importantly, works well with your T41.

I agree with you whole heartedly. Karmic works very well on my 7 year old acer and even knetwork manager seems to have come of age. Connects promptly and I think the tray icon is well integrated with the new kde look. I realise you do have problems but I'm of the opinion you see very few success stories posted on the forum and mainly people having issues.

[claydoh]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

I have a 6 year old Compaq laptop with a 2.0 P-4 mobilekcpu and an ati 32mb graphics chip. I have seen definite improvements in performance with the open drivers, ie less mucking around with xorg. Though there is a bug related to low vram ati systems like mine that I hit here I actually have to switch kwin effects on to get plasma widgets, taskbar etc to show correctly

I actually just put together a laptop from spares I have collected for the old Evo, and it is running just fine with only 512 mb ram, though I have yet to fully give it a workout yet.

kbunt is unfortunately someone who has to label everything as a failure or terrible no matter what the circumstances, especially given the successes of those with the exact same hardware

[moonscar]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

^^ lol Kubuntu karmic it worked like a champ on my hand built pc and still does. Tbh there was only 1 problem with sound in AmaroK that i fixed under 20 minutes. :P dunno what ur rolling on, my pc is a hand built hardcore gamer pc and i never had intention of running Linux on it until a couple of months ago . Glad i chose Kubuntu.

[Guest]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

I have to agree. I think Kubuntu 8 was better than 9, imho. In fact, I switched back to Freespire. Freespire seems much more stable and it does everything I want (except for getting Ubuntuzilla to run right).

[Adrian]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

I don't agree, everything seems to be working as it should, the only thing that I don't seem to figure out is how to get package update notifications, that worked OK in Jaunty, but I don't get any notification in Karmic.

[kbunt]

Buntus no longer support older ati cards?

Both Ubuntu and Kubuntu cannot be run with compiz or any kind of desktop effects in the new Karmic release.

I've read various bug reports on Launchpad and no one seems to care at all.

My laptop screen goes 'black' with a frozen white mouse cursor. This is in Kubuntu. Ubuntu's 9.10 won't even boot up at all! What a failure!

I guess the *buntus want to be like Microsoft and give the finger to older hardware and users that own them.

[kbunt]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

I don't buy it. I'm not making things up. You just have to check Launchpad and the bugs regarding older ATI hardware and Compiz. Not only did older ATI hardware have issues before in 9.04 (although, there were at least 'fixes' you could do to get around them), they seem to have worsened or were neglected in 9.10. I even posted a 'confirmation' report after another user eloquently described a similar issue to mine. Should I believe that a few posters claiming the same hardware don't have the issue? They have special ATI hardware?!? I don't think so.

Of course, newer hardware is fine with it. It would be fine with virtually all the recent distros as long as it's not just released hardware. But, recent Intel and AMD chipset motherboards are fine. Recent Intel, Realtek and Atheros wireless is, for the most part, good. But, have older hardware especially ATI graphics and you are up the creek.

Combine older ATI hardware and Compiz and Ubuntu (includes all *buntus) fails.

[kbunt]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

kbunt is unfortunately someone who has to label everything as a failure or terrible no matter what the circumstances, especially given the successes of those with the exact same hardware

What do you want my reaction to be? What would you claim? I am only observing and stating my experience. I can say the same: I read the bug reports on Launchpad and this was way back since Alpha 5 and 6 until now. Almost no change with the result. I don't mind mucking around but I keep getting obstacles thrown my way.

If you could tell me how to edit settings now that xorg.conf is now gone, I would try. I would like to try changing EXA to XAA but now I don't know how.

Also, I've tried other Live CD versions of other distros in which Compiz and/or desktop effects can be enabled without it crashing or you could leave the LiveCD without it crashing (Ubuntu 9.10 hard crashes on my desktop if just left alone). That tells me that it's something Ubuntu has done in isolation from other operating systems (for whatever reason). However, the other distro uses a different file/package system and I would like to stay with debian if I could. Anyway, I thought it was a sufficient reason to be disappointed but to each their own. I guess if you have the latest laptop or hardware and everything works, it's hard to understand why others would be negative.

[Snowhog]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

You've stated the issue in your own words: "But, have older hardware especially ATI graphics and you are up the creek."

Are you really expecting/demanding that 'older hardware' be fully supported in *all* *ubuntu releases? That is not realistic. Desirable maybe, but not realistic. That Karmic is a 'failure' on your 'older' system isn't anything more than an issue with your system and Karmic, not the other way around.

[claydoh]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

In guess my 2003 or -04 era ati mobility 7500 with 32mb ram and it's noticeable performance boosts using kwin the past year and a half or so must count for nothing?

Your chicken little "it always is awful no matter what all the time forever and ever it sux" is getting very tiring to us all. Go try a different distro and see what works for you or doesn't.
Now I am not saying that every release is 100% awesome and it all works all the time or anything stupid like that, but you always have your topic titles so extremely negative. Yet you still keep using Kubuntu. And you keep producing topics with dire titles. It sure makes people who might be able to help you end up ignoring you

[claydoh]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

kbunt, if you would look you would find my own post of this just last week:

[kubicle]

Re: Karmic is a failure, imho

I'm not making things up.

Yes you are. Your issues are probably real, but you are making things up by saying that "older ati hardware is not supported", when others (even with the exact same hardware) have told you their hardware works as expected (though it may not work perfectly out-of-the-box). BTW, arch linux has the same drivers...and the same issues on some cards.

If you could tell me how to edit settings now that xorg.conf is now gone, I would try.

I could, but I won't. I'm done wasting my time with you.