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**lmilano** · Aug 01, 2009, 12:26 PM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

I think it is true, it is less polished, and the reason is that it is not the default Ubuntu, so it receives a lot less resources

Having people volunteer can only help, I have little time so I help in the forums, but if I get some more spare time to code I would join the team, you could do that

As for the browser, there will be a great light browser installed by default in Karmic: Arora

Settings: yes, everything should be done in System Settings, and we are getting there

**apparle** · Aug 01, 2009, 11:04 PM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

What about the KMenu icon and the Krunner I suggested.
How can I help??
Is arora comparable to firefox??

**lmilano** · Aug 01, 2009, 11:21 PM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

Arora is based on webkit, which was originally based on khtml (the html engine for Konqueror), but got lots of improvements from Apple for their Safari web browser. These improvements became webkit, and then there was qt-webkit, a qt component giving access to that engine. Arora builds on that

http://code.google.com/p/arora/

Regarding branding, I don't know, it seems like a good idea to me. But we lack polish in more important things. Sounds is partially broken because Pulse Audio and Phonon don't play together very well in 9.04. KNetworkManager has been problematic, and KPackageKit a disaster in 9.04. The rest, rock solid. But polish would mean I don't need to have breakfast every morning at 5:30 telling some new person to please install synaptic because KPackageKit is broken in this release.

How can you help? I love to see you'd like to. I would suggest you get strong in c++, python, qt, which is a great skillset on its own, and at the same time talk to the core developers of kubuntu to offer your help. I think Jonathan Riddel is one of them, probably the main one, and he seems to need help:
http://softvision.wordpress.com/2008...the-aftermath/

Thank you for the interest, and I think it is terrific you are asking all these things. Hope you stick around!

**kubicle** · Aug 02, 2009, 01:07 AM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

I'm not a big fan of extensive customization. Although distro specific tools can be useful, I hate learning to use new tools when I try out another distro (obviously there are always some differences, but I'd like to keep that to a minimum), also, these tools often can rarely be shared and used by other distros (which is sort of the point of OSS).

Improving common tools like systemsettings is of course a very important thing, and some branding/eyecandy doesn't hurt either (although I don't consider it a top-most priority).

As far as default software is concerned, everyone has their favorite applications and it is impossible to ship a default set that would be perfect for everyone...so IMO keeping it consistent with kde/qt software is an acceptable compromise. (AFAIK Pidgin isn't the default in Ubuntu either anymore, they'll ship Empathy instead, so I don't see it becoming the default in kubuntu anytime soon, you can always install it if you prefer it, of course).

Choosing software based on their library demands and dependencies is also a CD space issue.

Anyway, if you're interested in improving kubuntu, this should be a good place to start:
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu

Originally posted by lmilano

Arora is based on webkit

I like Arora, it's fast and the rendering engine is very good, but it's still lacking in some features you'd expect in modern browser. It's improving fast, but it's uncertain whether it'll be ready for prime time for karmic.

KNetworkManager has been problematic

Knetworkmanager (and the plasmoid) are being reworked, so hopefully this will get better (possibly for karmic)...in the future, we should get a standalone app front-end to NetworkManager (like the one in KDE3 and gnome), and a plasma-widget that should work with multiple backends (like wicd). Here's an excerpt from the kubuntu-devel mailing list (Sebastian Kügler):

Beginning of June, we have refactored the networkmanager code for two reasons:

- it was becoming complex, too complex
- we want the networkmanager plasmoid to be usable with alternatives to
networkmanager as well, wicd, connman for example

This refactoring is mainly done, and it proves to have been a very good idea. It's
relatively easy now to "get into the code", and thus easier to make things work. Will
has written a system-tray like "monolithic" app, I'm working on the plasmoid right
now. I've taken the same opportunity to also redo the user interface. The "staple
extenders on top of each other" approach is neat and flexible, but it can be
problematic with smaller displays. The new design is more netbook-friendly (works on
a confined space, uses more horizontal space rather than vertical space), and I'm
almost at a point where I can use it myself.

Will's monolithic client is a bit further towards being stable, as its UI code is a
lot simpler, so that's probably the safest option for karmic.

Both clients share the same infrastructure, so fixing bugs in one often fixes the
other, too (though not for UI bugs).

link: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ku...ly/003123.html

**Rog131** · Aug 02, 2009, 02:18 AM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

1. First of all why can't the KMenu logo be replaced by the Kubuntu logo.

Earlier > Topic: Kubuntu logo

DIY with the KDE 4.2 > HOWTO : create own (partial) icon theme

2. The boot splash screen should be improved. The Ubuntu one looks good but not ours.

There are many splash screens and you can customize them > Topic: how to create an animated splash screen

3. There must Firefox installed by default with a Kubuntu theme in it.

The Firefox is a GTK application. The Kubuntu is trying to be an all KDE/Qt Linux distribution.
There have been many starts to get a Qt Firefox > Topic: Interview: Qt Comes to Mozilla and Firefox

And there is the one CD limit. If it doesn't fit to the Kubuntu installation CD then it is not a default application.

4. My personal opinion is...

5. Also there must be...

6. It is not good to have

8. Also I think...

Wishes/suggestions > Brainstorm

Introduction

Ubuntu brainstorm provides a simple way for anyone to contribute ideas for improving Ubuntu. All ideas are voted on by the user community and the most popular ideas are brought to the attention of the development teams...

Something useful:

> Topic: Please Read Before Posting
> Topic: SEARCH BEFORE POSTING
> HOWTO find Kubuntu's manual / reference / guide / documentation / help
> Top 20 Kubuntu FAQs & Answers
> Topic: Karmic Release Schedule, Plans, KDE 4.3

**lmilano** · Aug 02, 2009, 07:55 AM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

Thanks folks for filling in. I said this in another thread, but I really love to see software like NetworkManager, with a modular design: a desktop agnotic lib and different front ends for KDE, GNOME, etc. This really is the way to go (and should simplify enormously supporting the different *buntus, not to mention improve quality overall

**josefko** · Aug 02, 2009, 10:43 AM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

It doesn't bother me, if customization is a bit difficult for me as for an administrator, but what really bothers me is that Kubuntu doesn't live at least half a year with a common user (my wife) without any issues.
For example:
- if I explain to a common user to click to a system tray to update and there are blocked updates.
- if I learn common user to force them with synaptic, so I loose compiled webcam driver because it doesn't work with a new kernel and webcamera in Skype stops to work.
- if there is some blacklist for example for webcam driver, so Guarddog from time to time blocks traffic and a common user must learn to do from shell sudo /etc/rc.firewall if no posts come.
- etc.

I don't want you to solve my issues, I brought them only to show you why Kubuntu is not polished system in my opinion. Believe me, a common user doesn't think about Kickoff icon.

I read once that some guy didn't need to solve issues on his father's computer for several months when switched his computer from Windows to some Linux, but unfortunately it is not my case.

**grizzler** · Aug 03, 2009, 03:31 PM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

Things not being 'polished' doesn't really bother me. Things not working does...

My first Ubuntu experience was with the Ubuntu/Gnome desktop. I didn't really like it, so I switched to Kubuntu/KDE and immediately liked the way it looked and 'felt'.
However, I keep ditching bits of it because they're broken. Just this evening I installed Evince because Okular is a complete and utter joke when it comes to printing. I use Synaptic because KPackageKit is crummy. I killed KNetworkManager in favour of Wicd. GEdit is my text editor, mainly because Kate won't save certain settings. I use Pidgin instead of Kopete, but I can't get the System Settings panel to accept Pidgin as my preferred IM client.

And then there's these panel widgets... Quicklaunch? The current implementation sucks. Gigantically. You can't rearrange the icons, they keep changing size and new ones are added in a seemingly random position. Rediculous! Even more so when you consider the KDE3 version didn't have these problems.

I don't want to go back to Gnome, but I'm starting to wonder...

**GreyGeek** · Aug 03, 2009, 05:09 PM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

Well, "beauty", like "polish" is in the eye of the beholder. For me, KDE is exactly the kind of DE I like. I can do anything I want with it.

EDIT: I updated KDE 4.2.4 to KDE 4.3 today. Very NICE! Tried every program I have on my desktop (over a dozen) and all work perfectly. New options in SystemSettings...

**SCBrazil** · Aug 05, 2009, 08:16 PM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

Well, I am very far from being an expert on the topic of OSs but I spent the last couple of days running OpenSUSE from a live CD.

I have no idea what goes on under the hood of an OS or distro so I really cannot comment there. I am just an average user looking for a pleasurable and understandable experience on my PC.

So, for what my two cents are worth;

The Bad about OpenSUSE
I will not be installing OpenSUSE on my PC, but that's not because it's without merit. My main gripe with it was that the graphics rendering (if that's the word) does not come close to Kubuntu. Everything seemed very slightly blurred compared to Kubuntu's crisp feel. The general look of it seemed about two years out of date. It felt like a colourful version of Windows 90s.

The Good
I have enjoyed my Kubuntu experience so far and do not see myself leaving it behind but one of my gripes is that I still cannot find my way around. I had been thinking that this was more of a user defect (me) than the OS itself. I came from Windows and figured I was being a little too slow adjusting my mental map.

But OpenSUSE has changed my mind about that. Within hours I was finding my way around much better than I still do after months using Kubuntu. On OpenSUSE I just understood where things were, what their titles meant and what they were for.

I have posted doubts on this forum about how to perform the most simple tasks, after hours of trying to find a way myself. I am not an IT illiterate but I sometimes feel like one using Kubuntu. I am a psychologist and writer by profession but taught myself Dreamweaver, ActionScript and Flash out of curiosity and pleasure. I can also change and configure my own hardware and while none of these things are much to shout about when compared to what some of you guys know, I shudder to think what users less IT curious and stubborn than myself would think of Kubuntu. I haven't even offered to install it on my girlfriend's PC as I know the earbashing I'd get.

I did not experience this using OpenSUSE. It was much more intuitive for a first time user. I would not hesitate to recommend it to a most basic PC user whereas I would be afraid of putting such a person off Linux forever if I introduced them to Kubuntu straight from Windows.

So I can understand why the original thread poster here used the words 'common user' and referred to his wife when lauding the merits of OpenSUSE. I persisted with Kubuntu because I am curious and enjoy a challenge but to the average PC user, if an OS's use is seen as a 'challenge' they will look for an alternative as soon as possible.

And to finish, I do recognise and admit I have no idea what the ultimate user profile the Kubuntu developers are aiming for, so my comments may all be redundant anyway. It might be like saying football would attract more little girls to stadiums if they put nice flowers around the pitch.

My 2 cents.

**lmilano** · Aug 05, 2009, 08:42 PM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

SCBrazil

I agree, this is what Kubuntu needs, little bits here and there on the usability front. It has improved a lot since the barebones ubuntu + kde it was at the beginning, but there is a lot to improve. SUSE has a loong headstart. Also, I wouldn't use it for philosophical reasons[1], but that's beyond what we are discussing here

Cheers!
Leo

[1] http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

**SCBrazil** · Aug 05, 2009, 09:17 PM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

Originally posted by lmilano

[1] http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Mmmm. Interesting. So I wasn't so far off the mark when I compared it to a Windows '90s' look.

Thanks for the info.

**metricus** · Aug 06, 2009, 10:55 AM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

I could not pass this opportunity for discussion. Mainly, because many of your thoughts went through my head at a time or another.

OSS: When I first switched to Linux it was In 2003 and at that time SUSE was the best distro in terms of GUI usability. (i am not a programmer but I am also no "common user" to quote josefko).
All went well until Novell got it's hands on it. That was in early 10.x versions which were a complete disaster. It was still using ReiserFS which I consider a great FS but not for the desktop user. The activity on my disk was so intense that I was clicking on an app and waiting.. until I would decide that maybe I did not "click well" and clicked again...then cold reboot.

This was when I decided to move to Kubuntu. It had ext3 which is much faster (may not be as secure but I really am no banking institution). And it was "pure" KDE. This is exactly what it is today. a sort of "KDE distro", a linux kernel with an almost untouched KDE desktop slapped on it.

... and this is what you get. with good things and bad things. OSS has a loooong history and YAST has years of coding behind it. YAST is not KDE but it's a SUSE thing just as Drake is a Mandriva thing (Mandrake at the time).

Now we have to understand that KDE 4.xx is still in development. Someone remarked that although they are called releases these are just glorified beta versions of KDE4. KDE is trying to make a platform independent desktop just as Firefox has become a platform independent browser. We should all realize that this is a grand undertaking which will surely not happen tomorrow.

On the other hand it is evident that kubuntu is the "step sister" of ubuntu as it obviously gets so little attention and resources. This is sad and it needs to change.
IMHO we should also change the release schedule. Ubuntu follows the Gnome release schedule while Kubuntu is completely out of sync with KDE resulting in the Kubuntu users doing major upgrades 4 times/year instead of twice. And as this leads to frustrations like josefko mentioned when it does not "live at least half a year" without issues for the common user.

Some final thoughts:
On Konqueror: I am of a different opinion as some have voiced. I find it brilliant that I can do everyhing in one app : from reading man files, to sftp transfers. All u need is to open a new tab.

As for OSS: I have tried it this summer again. I don't know if the word polished is the right one. I find it rather complex and surely confusing when it comes to managing repositories. I would most likely learn it but I am not ready for the switch.

I surely would like Canonical to change it's attitude towards Kubuntu.

**sunanima** · Aug 07, 2009, 03:22 AM

Re: Why is Kubuntu so less customized and polished

Originally posted by GreyGeek

Well, "beauty", like "polish" is in the eye of the beholder. For me, KDE is exactly the kind of DE I like. I can do anything I want with it.

EDIT: I updated KDE 4.2.4 to KDE 4.3 today. Very NICE! Tried every program I have on my desktop (over a dozen) and all work perfectly. New options in SystemSettings...

Hello Grey,
Could you please tell : How to see which version of KDE is installed on Kubuntu and how to upgrade to the latest one. Pardon my ignorance I am a new user

regards
Sunanima

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