My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

[NJ_Dude]

I love Kubuntu, but, this new version is not what I was expecting.

TOO MUCH EYE CANDY, is my first problem, I personally don't like the MACafication or VISTAfication of Kubuntu, and those "widgets", certainly don't work right or are flexible enough, meaning, placing them on the task bar really look bad.

I installed 8.10 final version on a test laptop (which had Hardy Heron) and I've seen a decrease on performance, not bad but runs a tad slow even though I tweaked the settings to get a more "plain" view.

The icons on the desktop DO NOT SNAP TO GRID, I really don't like that, it should be an option to turn on/off so the user could choose their desktop setting.

Favorites: If you change the view to "Kickoff" you can delete the shortcuts you don't want, however, you can't do the same on "Classic" view, moreover, if you delete the shortcuts on Kickoff these remain in Classic and there's no way (at least I haven't figure it out) to delete them otherwise since there are no FAVORITES option on the Menu Editor.

I'm still testing and getting used to this new GUI, I'll post more later, but so far, I'm not changing to IBEX anytime soon.

[tomp01]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)



I don't like the fact that it is not so easy to align icons but I think that the powers that be prefer you not to do that. Apart from that I love the new look and so do many others.

[buckeyered80]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

Is Kubuntu 8.10 only allowing KDE 4? That's what it sounds like he is using. I haven't installed it yet, but for now, in 8.04, you are able to choose KDE 3.5 or KDE 4. Personally, I don't really like KDE 4 much either, it reminds me of Vista. I am hoping that 8.10 will still allow the use of KDE 3.5, faster and more stable. Cheers!

[aged hippy]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

Is Kubuntu 8.10 only allowing KDE 4? That's what it sounds like he is using. I haven't installed it yet, but for now, in 8.04, you are able to choose KDE 3.5 or KDE 4. Personally, I don't really like KDE 4 much either, it reminds me of Vista. I am hoping that 8.10 will still allow the use of KDE 3.5, faster and more stable. Cheers!

Yes, Intrepid is KDE 4 only, no option of 3.5.10.

[suplero]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

I agree that 8.10 is a bit more "beta" than I thought it would be. With KDE4 being out for a whole release now, I was hoping it would be a bit more usable than it is.

Overall, I think it works well enough, but there are a few things that can really bug me.

1) the taskbar:

a) no option to control it other than three check boxes. What happened to the ability to actually size the task boxes?

b) switching desktops reorders all of the windows. What's up with that? I was ok with this behaviour in 8.04, since it was the first version. Does nobody at KDE switch desktops? I open about 10-15 windows per desktop when I am working, and switch frequently. with the size of the text and the size of the task boxes, the reordering literally makes me search for the proper window for up to 15 seconds each time. I remember where each one is [previously they could be ordered alphabetically or by starting position I think] based on when I open it, and now I can't. Very disconcerting and inefficient.

2) widgets.

Overall I like the idea of widgets, but the options are still not fully useful.

a) clock. I like analog clocks. I want to put one on the desktop, but windows cover it. I previously asked for an option to make it stay on top, but that doesn't look too imminent. Other widgets have that option - along with "opacity," but not the clock. Why? I'm thinking that widget controls are simple functions [the black option box for example is consistent across all widgets, along with the icons and such - why not everything?]

b) system tray. with the reordering of the taskbar, I decided to remove the system tray from the taskbar to make more room. I then created a system tray widget on the desktop. This is very useful. However, getting the actual system tasks into the system tray is like herding cats. Literally. Try it. The system icons are sometimes not there at all, and every time the system tray widget is moved, the icons have a mind of their own. I pretty much never have them in the tray if they actually decide to show up.

3) Konqueror.

Konqueror still has issues with opening new windows automatically. I have the "open folders in new windows" checked, but it doesn't work - ever. I can manually create them fine, but it is more clicks. Not a deal breaker, but again - inefficient, especially since they have the option. If there wasn't the option, it wouldn't bother me as much, but if they have the option, it should be working.

4) adept.

Adept has a new interface, and I know it is a beta, but there are many functions that are missing.

a) where are the applications? Under adept [not the add/remove programs version] the first screen has absolutely no applications listed. All that is there is a new [confusing?] interface, with pretty much no instruction on how to use it. Even playing around with the different options, I can't really understand what is going on. When all of the "show" boxes are on - nothing shows. So this is an XOR function?

b) arrangement. When I do actually get applications to show up, they are in some bizarre order. Being used to the alphabet, this seems very inefficient. I have to look through the entire list to find stuff.

c) missing stuff.

Where is KPDF? xine? several other applications that I used very often are missing. I hope they return at some point.

d) surprise installs. Not in the sense that adept installs stuff on its own, but in the sense that I don't know what to expect when I select packages to install. The preview is nice, but an overall size is missing. So, I want to install Koffice. All of the packages get selected, great, but I don't have any way to tell how much needs to be downloaded before I select apply. Suppose I am downloading some work files, and while waiting I go through and select several packages to install. I hit the apply button and now 200MB needs to be downloaded - which on a slower internet connection can significantly impact the other downloads. I know I can cancel it, but that isn't the point - it is the "surprise" factor. Especially upgrades. Nothing tells how big the upgrades are. Maybe they are 200MB... A status bar would be great for this.

On a related note - is there anything planned in the future to allow assigning priorities to downloads? Mozilla has the "pause" buttons, and torrents have a "speed limit" feature. Can the network manager have this feature? List all of the running internet applications/downloads and have a slider bar/text box for a speed limit. I would find that useful. I could limit adept to 10% or so of my connection and let it run longer, while not impacting anything else.

I guess those are my overall impressions of what I found so far.

Don't read this as a completely negative review. I think there are very many good things that are happening, and the progress seems to be accelerating - but don't leave the users behind.

[Nate]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

suplero, that's a good list. Very specific. You might want to bring those things up on the KDE forums http://forum.kde.org/. Lots of developers there and they appreciate specific feedback.

The only things I can respond to from your list are that Okular has replaced KPDF. And there is a new version of the systray coming in 4.2. The current one seems to be disliked by the developers and they seem to really like the replacement that is coming soon.

[aged hippy]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

Good points, suplero, and i agree with most of them

Those pesky cats can be herded into the tray... if you <Unlock Widgets> and move the tray very slightly 1/8 of an inch or so, they hop right in. I usually <Lock Widgets> immediately after they do, so they can't escape.

[xerosis]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

To follow-up on one of your points, I believe there's a snap to grid option in 4.2.

[NJ_Dude]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

To follow-up on one of your points, I believe there's a snap to grid option in 4.2.

That will be nice to have back

This is an unrelated issue but, I can't GHOST my 8.10 , I use images to test OS's, installs, etc, however, I tried to make an image of Intrepid Ibex and my Ghost just creates a 14KB file and says is complete!! , I can do a bit-by-bit image but it would take like 4 hours, as opposed to 30-40 minutes, what's new on the drive geometry or format? , I did a clean install of 8.10 on a blank drive.

[tblups]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

This is an unrelated issue but, I can't GHOST my 8.10 Huh, I use images to test OS's, installs, etc, however, I tried to make an image of Intrepid Ibex and my Ghost just creates a 14KB file and says is complete!! Huh Huh, I can do a bit-by-bit image but it would take like 4 hours, as opposed to 30-40 minutes, what's new on the drive geometry or format? Huh, I did a clean install of 8.10 on a blank drive.

The same here with both Acronis Backup and Partimage.

[Guest]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

I agree that KDE4 is a huge, wasteful P.O.S. and I'm pissed over being forced to use it with 8.10. Translation: I've re-installed 8.04 over it and I'm keeping it that way. Anyone can argue their preferences, but I really wish they wouldn't because they are just that: PREFERENCES. I remember the days when I could install several desktop interfaces and select the one I wanted on login. KDE4 was never necessary, and I don't ever remember having an issue with software compatibility.

If I ever want a Microsoft-style desktop, I'll be sure to install KDE4. Until then I'll consider it crap-ware.

[aged hippy]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

I remember the days when I could install several desktop interfaces and select the one I wanted on login.

I can do that now, in Hardy.

I used to do it as well, in Gutsy.

Didn't know it was possible, in Feisty.

[Snowhog]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

...KDE4 is a huge, wasteful P.O.S. and I'm pissed over being forced to use it with 8.10.

Forced? That's a bit strong. The Kubuntu developers made it very clear that Intrepid Ibex (8.10) was going to use KDE 4 exclusively. KDE 4 is the road down which KDE has decided to travel. Right or wrong, it is the decision that was made. While you (and others, but by no means all) don't like KDE 4, others do. Likes/dislikes will always vary with the individual user. It's always been that way, and always will be that way.

I was very happy with HH KDE 3.5.10 (and it's still one of my three installed versions of Kubuntu), but I am now using as my primary OS, II KDE 4.1.2. Am I completely happy with it? No. There are functionality issues - missing features - that exist in KDE 3.5.10 but not in KDE 4.1.2. But, some (hopefully all) of those features will be back in KDE 4.2.

[blackbelt_jones]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

Is Kubuntu 8.10 only allowing KDE 4? That's what it sounds like he is using. I haven't installed it yet, but for now, in 8.04, you are able to choose KDE 3.5 or KDE 4. Personally, I don't really like KDE 4 much either, it reminds me of Vista. I am hoping that 8.10 will still allow the use of KDE 3.5, faster and more stable. Cheers!

Anyone interested in KDE3 in Intrepid can try this unofficial repository

http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/

After some initial problems with KDM login, I 'm having a great experience running KDE 3.5.10 applications on intrepid. I'm not sure if KDE3 and KDE4 will play together nicely. I started with a Gnome-based Intrepid Ipex install. You may want to use synaptic to purge all signs of KDE4 before installing KDE3. When doubt, contact the repository administrator.

KDE 3 is now in "maintanance mode". It's KDE's policy to support KDE3 with bugfixes and security updates as long as it's in circulation, and it's going to be in circulation for years at the very least. If people keep using it, it will continue to be supported. There won't be a lot of new features, if any, but the KDE3 we know will almost certainly remain secure and viable well into the next decade.

Some distros are choosing to drop KDE3 from further releases, as Kubuntu has, but when that happens, unofficial repositories will almost certainly arise to take up the slack. As with any GNU/Linux software, you use these at your own risk.

Some of us have started a facebook group for KDE3 users. I'm too busy to find the link right now, but you can certainly find it by searching the facebook database. It looks like we're going to be dedicated to helping users and repositories find each other.

[paxmark1]

Re: My Humble opinion on 8.10 (plus some issues)

And another option to keep kde 3.5.10 and the apt update process is to go with debian Lenny. That gets you a 2.6.26 kernel. Their testing-Lenny is much more stable the Kub 8.10 as it is in a freeze. And it would be quite easy to go back to Kubuntu in the future when things settle down. I do not believe that the .26 kernel has the atheros wifi support though.

I did the II beta on an old machine and gave up and installed lenny. Fantastic on 3 to 5 year old machines. My new machine is kub8.04 and I will wait on it to see what happens with JJ.