Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

[claydoh]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

I'll keep repeating myself till the cows come home on this:

Sure, 3.5.9 is awesome. But does anyone remember 3.0?. it was released in April 2002 and the stable and usable 3.2 was released in February 2004! Our current 3.5 series was released November 2005. See for yourselves how many changes were made, new apps added, and new configurations created over a six-year period.

Just like every major KDE version, it has and will take a while for all the old bells and whistles, as well as all the new ones to be done for KDE4.

You don't have to switch to KDE4 immediately if you don't want to, but , just like the KDE2-3 move, its gonna have to happen at some point and in this case KDE4 is going to get there much faster than KDE3 did.

You can go ahead and fork, no one is stopping anyone from doing so. But do you see any [i]developers/coders[i] working on a fork? I don't. Why are suse and their corporate focus, money and paid developers jumping into KDE4 much harder than Kubuntu? (The Kickoff menu anyone?)

As to OOo, that will remain the office suite, for some time probably. But KOffice2 may one day be a suitable replacement. Or not (just as Koffice1 isn't). But if it were, it would take up so much less space on the cd image that we might be able to include the QT port of Firefox if that becomes viable.

[Fintan]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

I have to concur with claydoh.

KDE4 has basically done in 6-7 months what took kde3 a few years and I remember the days of kde2. Kept me away from Linux for quite a while.

For my very humble part there is little (if nothing) that I can't do in kde4.1 respectively need kde3.5.9 for.

[svpctech]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

yea well rather it be 3.5 or 4.1 it's still years ahead of the competition if you ask me. The only people i seen that like gnome was people that came from Mac, but there's not very many of those people, so i don't see why the push for gnome. gnome is old and ugly looking. i look forward to kde to completely take top spot in desktop environments. It's way more appealing than xp, and is nothing like the bloated useless vista interface. and the mac interface just doesn't make sense.
As far as Koffice vs OpenOffice it's a pretty close call. I personally like KOffice, it's beautiful, however OpenOffice is quite popular(Windows, Mac and Linux) We use OpenOffice at work(That makes right around 1,000 copies of it used daily)
I think Kubuntu will over power/out grow Ubuntu, IMHO

[MoonRise]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

I'll keep repeating myself till the cows come home on this:

Sure, 3.5.9 is awesome. But does anyone remember 3.0?. it was released in April 2002 and the stable and usable 3.2 was released in February 2004! Our current 3.5 series was released November 2005. See for yourselves how many changes were made, new apps added, and new configurations created over a six-year period.

Just like every major KDE version, it has and will take a while for all the old bells and whistles, as well as all the new ones to be done for KDE4.

You don't have to switch to KDE4 immediately if you don't want to, but , just like the KDE2-3 move, its gonna have to happen at some point and in this case KDE4 is going to get there much faster than KDE3 did.

You can go ahead and fork, no one is stopping anyone from doing so. But do you see any [i]developers/coders[i] working on a fork? I don't. Why are suse and their corporate focus, money and paid developers jumping into KDE4 much harder than Kubuntu? (The Kickoff menu anyone?)

As to OOo, that will remain the office suite, for some time probably. But KOffice2 may one day be a suitable replacement. Or not (just as Koffice1 isn't). But if it were, it would take up so much less space on the cd image that we might be able to include the QT port of Firefox if that becomes viable.

I have to concur with claydoh.

KDE4 has basically done in 6-7 months what took kde3 a few years and I remember the days of kde2. Kept me away from Linux for quite a while.

For my very humble part there is little (if nothing) that I can't do in kde4.1 respectively need kde3.5.9 for.

I agree with both of you on this. I really see no practicality in forking a Desktop Environment. As far as the OOo vs. KOffice issue, I'm neutral. I've done some testing for OOo and think it is top notch, but there is room out there for KOffice to make a show and since they are working on the Cross Platform File Format, then all the more power to them!

[kjjjjshab]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

...KDE4 has basically done in 6-7 months what took kde3 a few years and I remember the days of kde2....

I have seen that fact mentioned time and time again... but I wonder... how much of that is due to the paid work of Trolltech/Nokia employees working on Qt and how much is the community?

I am not trying to complain/troll or be rude or anything... it is just a legitimate question in my opinion.

[svpctech]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

how much of that is due to the paid work of Trolltech/Nokia employees working on Qt and how much is the community?

Well I'm sure there is alot of factors besides paid support. I think it's great that companies help free and open source projects, because it's not really free. somebody is actually putting alot of time and effort behind opensource projects and only receive donations in return.


However, back to your question, I want to know if we Could compare the size of the community to the size it was during kde 3 or kde2 i'm sure you'll see that linux is rapidly growing, so naturally a larger community means more effort which in turn results in the faster development that we see today.

It think though, as long as it's not microsoft no one should be really concerned who is writing code.

[kjjjjshab]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

...I think it's great that companies help free and open source projects...

It's not just "help" though... recent stats put the Linux kernel at 70% corporate code. Openoffice.org is nearly 100% Sun and IBM code... open Java will be introduced as corporate code... Mozilla developers are paid, AFAIK... Novell supports many projects... my proprietary (albeit sucky) nvidia driver was [over-]paid for... and of course the aforementioned Qt... I guess my point is that I get tired of seeing the myth of the "weekend hackers making GNU/Linux what it is today" brought up again and again... and that certainly was no doubt the case 5-10 years ago, but those days are over, from what I read.

Now, I would say for sure there are more individuals hacking for free... and more individual apps that are developed for free, but the ones that are most used on a day-to-day basis were probably not "free".

Again, I don't post this to piss off the great people who do give their free time to support GNU/Linux, KDE, etc... but I do think an open, factual and honest discussion needs to take place sooner or later as to where exactly this "free as in beer" OS comes from... companies have an agenda... and by using this OS and reporting bugs, helping the new guy, etc., you are contributing to the agendas of Sun, IBM, Novell, Nokia, and countless other companies... that should be very clear to users of this "free" OS. I know for a fact that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation gives millions (billions?) of dollars to great causes... how much does Nokia give?

These are just some thoughts... this thread was going a bit philosophical and clearly off-topic so I thought I'd expand a bit...

Again, I hardly care that I am indirectly helping Nokia with their next-gen N810 or helping IBM ditch a couple thousand Microsoft Office licenses, because I get something in return... a super, open source OS that allows me to truly own my documents and to some degree, my experiences (yikes, that is getting way too cheesy/deep ...time for bed i think).

[claydoh]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

Don't forget that Suse, Mandriva, Red Hat, and Canonical all employ developers that also work on various F/OSS projects. And don't forget Google's Summer of Code,
QT/trolltech have been employing KDE/QT developers long before Nokia came around and there is a foundation created by the QT folks (trolltech) to ensure that the toolkit stays free. As long as the software is under open-source licensing, it doesn't matter who does what to it. And as so many people not connected to any Major Corporation are working on all these projects, I highly doubt anything nefarious could even get through to the end user.

As to the kernel itself
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/publi...evelopment.php has a ton of stats on this subject. with some interesting charts and notes that explain a little better where kernel changes are coming from.

[MoonRise]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

Thanks Claydoh!!

[kjjjjshab]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

...I highly doubt anything nefarious could even get through to the end user...

I did not say or imply such a thing would happen. Nor am I worried that code will become "closed" by some means... that wasn't the point being made.

There is a very prevalent perception that open source software is mostly all written by people doing it in their spare time for the love of the work/project/community. I am saying that is no longer true, at least for the majority of code that users rely on every day. Just because the corporations have an agenda doesn't mean they are evil or planning something against the community... but nonetheless they do have a result in mind... it is important for people to realize this (knowledge is power!)... perhaps someone would/should choose not to report a konq bug because it will benefit Apple and their DRM business model (powered by WebKit)... perhaps someone would choose not to use KDE because Nokia is poisoning the third world with their crappy "disposable" cell phones... THESE ARE NOT MY VIEWS... but they are legitimate opinions... when I see the KDE community taking an implied full credit for the 4.0 - 4.2 accomplishment, it bothers me. That happened on the backs of corporations that simply were not there during the KDE2-3 days.

I know these things and still gladly help folks here any time I can... and I am thankful for all the developers who do the same...

This is half rant / half devil's advocate, with the error in the two perhaps fact/truth... but still, a relevant discussion, in my opinion.

[claydoh]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

...I highly doubt anything nefarious could even get through to the end user...

I did not say or imply such a thing would happen. Nor am I worried that code will become "closed" by some means... that wasn't the point being made.

There is a very prevalent perception that open source software is mostly all written by people doing it in their spare time for the love of the work/project/community. I am saying that is no longer true, at least for the majority of code that users rely on every day. Just because the corporations have an agenda doesn't mean they are evil or planning something against the community... but nonetheless they do have a result in mind... it is important for people to realize this (knowledge is power!)... perhaps someone would/should choose not to report a konq bug because it will benefit Apple and their DRM business model (powered by WebKit)... perhaps someone would choose not to use KDE because Nokia is poisoning the third world with their crappy "disposable" cell phones... THESE ARE NOT MY VIEWS... but they are legitimate opinions... when I see the KDE community taking an implied full credit for the 4.0 - 4.2 accomplishment, it bothers me. That happened on the backs of corporations that simply were not there during the KDE2-3 days.

I know these things and still gladly help folks here any time I can... and I am thankful for all the developers who do the same...

This is half rant / half devil's advocate, with the error in the two perhaps fact/truth... but still, a relevant discussion, in my opinion.

Well maybe nefarious was too strong a choice of words

But I do see what you are trying to say. I don't agree with your concerns, though I completely understand them.

[kjjjjshab]

Re: Lancelot, KDE 4.1 w/Quick Access and Adept 3.0

... I don't agree with your concerns, though I completely understand them.

Knowing that a large group of people probably don't know the truth about something is always a concern of mine, regardless of the actual consequence of not knowing the facts. But perhaps I am just a little extra angry this week with the start of the Republican convention (in the US). :-X