howto use kde3 in intrepid?

[claydoh]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

I don't think that "must" or "had to" are part of the open source (or the Linux) vocabulary and i hope that they are not part of the Kubuntu.

But if you want kde3 in intrepid you must or have to build it yourself. The freedom is still there, its all in how much work do you want to do on your own. Any distro can choose what to use, another may choose to support KDE3 longer. Again, the freedom is still there.

If more people came to kubuntu meetings to express their thoughts and concerns, and maybe expressed an interest in helping maintain KDE3, maybe it would be around a little longer. But as Kubuntu devs are a very small group there just isn't enough manpower to support it past hardy.

[Rog131]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

The resources or the lack of the resources is a different question than:

Wouldn't it be better for the evolution of KDE4/Intrepid if no one created such packages - i.e. Intrepid users *had* to use KDE4

Note
I know that 3vi1 was playing Devil's advocate !


If someone want's to use the KDE 3.5 with the II and is offering those packages through the ppa repositories it will be a good thing ! So those who really, really (and really) want to use the KDE 3.5 with the II can do so.

ppa > Personal Package Archives for Ubuntu


KDE forking ?

> KDE: It’s time for a fork
> KDE: It’s time for a fork . . . is it really?
> 11 Myths About KDE 4


I think that forking is just empty talk but...

[3vi1]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

I don't think that "must" or "had to" are part of the open source (or the Linux) vocabulary and i hope that they are not part of the Kubuntu.

True. Let's change that to "were greatly discouraged from using KDE3".

[of_darkness]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

The resources or the lack of the resources is a different question than:

Wouldn't it be better for the evolution of KDE4/Intrepid if no one created such packages - i.e. Intrepid users *had* to use KDE4

Note
I know that 3vi1 was playing Devil's advocate !


If someone want's to use the KDE 3.5 with the II and is offering those packages through the ppa repositories it will be a good thing ! So those who really, really (and really) want to use the KDE 3.5 with the II can do so.

ppa > Personal Package Archives for Ubuntu

i vill probably ditch the ppa cause its strange.. i can build binarey packages,but source -packages.. nah dosent work..

so i will build my own binarey kde3 packages then put them on a 3dy party repo that i will 1ast and formost only use my self and build only working packges 2 save some tiem and build pages whit changlog and copyright and all other public stuff later on..

KDE forking ?

> KDE: It’s time for a fork
> KDE: It’s time for a fork . . . is it really?
> 11 Myths About KDE 4


I think that forking is just empty talk but...

2 bad that non who has the nohow feals that kde3 is better and that kde4 is somthing alltoghter diffret from kde as we know it(as i se it), and that kde3 versions of most kde apps i better then kde4 (i think,amarok is a spledid example) konqueror has gone ugly(havent tested it more than that truth 2 be told cause i cant stand it)..
but hay i can live whit them as the are and hope some one uppgrades them in the kde3 style..

[of_darkness]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

I don't think that "must" or "had to" are part of the open source (or the Linux) vocabulary and i hope that they are not part of the Kubuntu.

But if you want kde3 in intrepid you must or have to build it yourself. The freedom is still there, its all in how much work do you want to do on your own. Any distro can choose what to use, another may choose to support KDE3 longer. Again, the freedom is still there.

If more people came to kubuntu meetings to express their thoughts and concerns, and maybe expressed an interest in helping maintain KDE3, maybe it would be around a little longer. But as Kubuntu devs are a very small group there just isn't enough manpower to support it past hardy.

i think the ones wanting kde3 is users, cause those whit skill probably rate the developing cons of kde4.. and its a real big step iin my mind 2 learn so mouch that you can be any help..

i do wonder if some one will start a sub distro of kubuntu whit kde3 only that focuses only in keping kde3 alive.. i dont realy se the nead 2 suport or maintin it more than keap upp the repo and only put in things that work whit kde3.. like if a new kernel would sohow bugger whit kde3 they wouldent consider that kernel.. thats my ide of a good distro 4 me:P and whne im in wish mode it would automaticly put upp all new apps from opendesktop in repo:P

[of_darkness]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

Just to play Devil's advocate: Wouldn't it be better for the evolution of KDE4/Intrepid if no one created such packages - i.e. Intrepid users *had* to use KDE4 (and therefore uncover and report more bugs, faster)?

in my mind i would force ppl over 2 opensusse as its the closent thing 2 kubuntu ... and if all distros made some change that made kde3 impossible i would go over 2 gnome or maybe even go pack to pirated software and windows... hey in windows there is always win blinds that hase the nicest desktop thems any os i seen:P

[claydoh]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

I would suggest plain ole Debian, they will probably have 3.5x longer than other distros, and the overall administration and structure will be much more familiar to Kubuntu users. Plus their source packages may make a usable starting place for someone willing to learn the ins and outs of packaging them for kubuntu

During the transition from kde2 to kde3, there was anger and frustration, and even talk of forking. No one stepped up to the plate to keep KDE2 alive despite the convictions of those hating KDE3. I do doubt anything will come out of any fork attempts here, either

[caryb]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

Open source development is a finite resource, we have 2 options fork KDE3 & split advancement of KDE in 2 or work with the devs at KDE & improve kde4! yes I get disheartened with KDE4 but some of the problems are Kubuntu's in the lag time to keep up with KDE development but I believe this is a resourcing issue at Ubuntu. I think at the Kubuntu level we should concentrate on the current Kubuntu supported level & stop creating extra work for the Kubuntu team. We don't have the resources to maintain a fork.

2c Cary

[pansz]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

in my mind i would force ppl over 2 opensusse as its the closent thing 2 kubuntu ... and if all distros made some change that made kde3 impossible i would go over 2 gnome or maybe even go pack to pirated software and windows... hey in windows there is always win blinds that hase the nicest desktop thems any os i seen:P

No distribution will provide KDE3 for ever... so you still want to choose a distribution which has a longer KDE3 support while still have up-to-date non-KDE applications.

Debian have a longer KDE3 support, but I doubt if the debian archive of other applications is quite up-to-date.

OpenSUSE might be a choice, OpenSUSE 11.1 will have KDE3 support, but will 11.2 have KDE3? I don't know.

If what you want is to keep KDE3 forever, I suggest you just install a command-line 8.10 and maintain your own copy of compiled-from-source KDE 3.5.9, that is a better choice since you will still need KDE3 in ubuntu 9.04, 9.10 and future versions, solve the problem only in ubuntu 8.10 does not help too much.

[pansz]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

2 bad that non who has the nohow feals that kde3 is better and that kde4 is somthing alltoghter diffret from kde as we know it(as i se it), and that kde3 versions of most kde apps i better then kde4 (i think,amarok is a spledid example) konqueror has gone ugly(havent tested it more than that truth 2 be told cause i cant stand it)..
but hay i can live whit them as the are and hope some one uppgrades them in the kde3 style..

There actually is NO need to upgrade to a new distribution when the system simply works.

I am using Ubuntu 7.04 which is rock solid. When I want some applications with the newest version which is only available in 8.04 or 8.10 I just compile them from source. Thanks to the powerful "apt-get build-dep", average users can compile anything without difficulty.

[Guest]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

Hello everybody...

i was really shocked when I just wanted to download the Intrepid Alpha5 (i missed alpha4) and realized that kde3 support is going to be completely dropped in Intrepid. KDE4 might offer some nice looks, but it does not offer by far the functionality KDE3 offers/offered. And it has tons of bugs more. The declaration of KDE 4.0 as stable back in a while was really a disaster from a software engineering point of view, releasing a totally unfinished product and ruining the good reputation KDE had up to then...

But if you want kde3 in intrepid you must or have to build it yourself. The freedom is still there, its all in how much work do you want to do on your own. Any distro can choose what to use, another may choose to support KDE3 longer. Again, the freedom is still there.

sorry guys, but that's not really an option. That's merely a "why dont you switch to Linux from scratch" argument - actually people who are using a distro do that because they do NOT want to put (any) efforts in compiling stuff themselves and tracking the latest security announcements on the stuff they compiled months ago. This "freedom" you express is therefore no real freedom - it burdens the user in chains forcing him to do the maintenance him/herself!

If more people came to kubuntu meetings to express their thoughts and concerns, and maybe expressed an interest in helping maintain KDE3, maybe it would be around a little longer. But as Kubuntu devs are a very small group there just isn't enough manpower to support it past hardy.

Of course KDE3 is going to "die" sooner or later. But at the current moment in time, KDE4 is not ready to be considered a usable replacement. You cannot demand from the users to open up hundreds of bug reports and feature requests for things that worked fine in KDE3 (like multiple task bar support) and stopped working or even being present there in KDE4...
Of course the argument with the manpower is to be considered. But picking this point - you are going to support 8.04 until April 2011, right? Since 8.10 is going not to be supported as long as 8.04 will be, is it really so much additional overhead if you supported kde3 in 8.10 and say 9.04? The effort to support this "largely unmaintained kde3 base" is still there, at least for 8.04.....

Just to play Devil's advocate: Wouldn't it be better for the evolution of KDE4/Intrepid if no one created such packages - i.e. Intrepid users *had* to use KDE4 (and therefore uncover and report more bugs, faster)?

well actually this is my impression here - KDE released a feature-leaking, buggy product and now they are pushing it into every distro to "enforce" bug reports. I wonder what would have happened if a car manufacturer did this with their new buggy Airbag system.....

[kbunt]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

I couldn't even use KDE 4. That's how badly it is implemented in Kubuntu. I couldn't even use the menu. It just wasn't available. POS.

[claydoh]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Star...Stable_Version
and
http://kdesvn-build.kde.org/
Not sure if you'd have to compile QT libraries if you compile yourself, but the kdesvn-build script will do that for you

[madscientist159]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

According to the Kubuntu devs I spoke with, there will be no 3.5.x packages for the Ibex, so sticking with hardy is the only way to go, unless some, er, ahem, intrepid soul creates their own packages somewhere, or via a PPA repository, but that would be such a massive undertaking I don't think it could be done very well or very easily.

I vastly prefer KDE3.5's power, so I built an APT repository for it.

Add this line to your /etc/apt/sources.list file:
http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/ intrepid main
and then run apt-get update and apt-get install kde3

You will probably also want to install the gtk-qt-engine package for pretty GTK application support.

WARNING: This will completely remove your KDE4 installation, so be absolutely sure you want to revert to KDE3.5 before you do this.

I have also included a couple of other legacy packages in this repository, such as Glade v2, so look around for them in Synaptic.

AMD64 packages will be added after Intrepid goes to full release, as I only have 3 64-bit systems and they are all used in mission-critical areas.

Let me know what you think!

Tim

[claydoh]

Re: howto use kde3 in intrepid?

Why does it completely remove kde4?
That's quite extreme imo. Why not do it as its done in Hardy - set everything to go to kde3-specific directories. You'd get more people trying it out, with less chance of breaking someone's entire system? I sincerely hope noone uses these packages on a production system!

Also if you build your own packages and offer a public repo, you should not list the (K)ubuntu developers as the maintainers of your packages. And have a really big red sign on your site somewhere with all then requisite warnings