Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

[CentaurHauler]

I thought that I had found a real alternative to Windows, and I think that I have really given it a fair try. I've installed v7.04 and v7.10 on several machines. And I've made them work, to a point, with a lot of time and effort.

I'm well aware that many people have put in a lot of effort to making it happen. I like the look and feel, and I would be very happy with it, except that way too much of it simply just doesn't work. Typical things that many will want to do just don't work, and could not have failed to be noticed if anyone had tried the total package out before release. 7.04 had a lot of configuration bugs, and I hoped 7.10 would fix this - but it broke at least as much as it fixed. The vast majority of problems are related to setting up and configuration, where using the GUI tools is a total crap shoot. It might work, it might not, and it might trash a working setup - you just never know!

I will probably keep using Kubuntu on the machines where I have it working, as it is more trouble than it is worth to redo them. But I'll probably not install any more, as I do not enjoy fighting with these machines, and I have a busy life.

It's a shame, as it was really pretty darn close, but all in all I must consider this experiment to be a failure.

I really do appreciate the help I have received from various people on the forum.

[integr8e]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

What are you having problems with? I'll help in any way I can.

[CentaurHauler]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

I appreciate that, and helpful people on these forums are what make it work as well as it does - otherwise it would be hopeless. I have no doubt that the remaining problems I have can be fixed and I may get around to it eventually, but that misses the point.

There is simply too much that does not work, much of it in the the area of configuration, and hunting down all the places where I could type in some text strings that should have been taken care of by the GUI won't change that.

A simple test is to take a clean system and install v7.10. Then configure a simple home network for 2-way file sharing (with Windows machines), share a local printer, set up a 2nd monitor at a different res (to be other than a clone), and mount a couple of drives. And do it without editing a text file or using a terminal window. More than likely you'll end up booting in recovery mode and restoring a backed up xorg.conf so that you can even see the GUI again.

I struggled through all that, and mostly got it working, but does not mean it's acceptable. The 2 versions I've worked with, v7.04 and v7.10, should clearly never have been released.

[nilsA]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

A simple test is to take a clean system and install v7.10. Then configure a simple home network for 2-way file sharing (with Windows machines), share a local printer, set up a 2nd monitor at a different res (to be other than a clone), and mount a couple of drives. And do it without editing a text file or using a terminal window. More than likely you'll end up booting in recovery mode and restoring a backed up xorg.conf so that you can even see the GUI again.

Just did my 2.d 7.10 install.

Configuring a simple network - I had to go into the Konsole and make the smbpasswd file + set the user name and password. Then I had to open the samba configuration file, and add the workgroup name I use. The rest - setting the share etc. worked graphical.

Sharing the printer - needs some work, as it's the first time I have a printer on a Kubuntu PC. The installation of the printer was no problem, though.

Mounting a couple of drives - no problem, the graphical interface does that without much problem.

Setting the screen type & resolution - no problem; all done graphical. The unsupported ATI card went correctly to standard ATI.

But - in many ways I agree:

First - if there is a graphical tool: It should work.
Second - too many peripherals don't work. or needs a lot of work to do.
Third - some of the graphical tools are really intuitive, others ... oh, well ...
Fourth - There's just too much mystery as to the cooperation (or conflicting interest) of X and KDE

On the other side:

I've reinstalled Win 2000 recently. It's slower, I have to look for, and type correctly, the registration code, there's no real programs included, and I have to look around for those old driver disks and diskettes. Then, the upgrade process is really slow - download this and that, set up a firewall, install the programs I need ...

[integr8e]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

. . . and antivirus software, and antispyware software (which, btw, use a lot of system resources), and manually update all your non-Microsoft applications, and be kept in the dark about your OS, and be totally susceptible to the whims of those in Redmond (who care more about their pockets than the wellbeing of their users), and have to pay $$$ if you want to upgrade to a better/updated/more secure version of the OS, and have to deal with Microsoft's DRM (I couldn't even play some of the songs I ripped from my own CD's), and enter the darkness . . .

I became aggravated with all that, and, personally, kinda' like fixing my computer; it's fun to me and really, unless you experiment somewhat heavily with your system - like myself, you shouldn't have many problems with Kubuntu. If you run into difficulty with an application or feature, either work on fixing it yourself (if you know how), or file a bug report; developers can't test every feature in every nook and cranny of all the software available to Kubuntu's users, so they depend on bug reports to tell them what needs improvement. Linux is quickly, exponentially growing in popularity; so if you'll just be a little patient, we should soon have some serious support both from developers and manufacturers.

Microsoft is even becoming worried of the ever increasing popularity of Linux, as is obvious with all their babbling and declaring threats toward the Linux community (which they can neither validate nor uphold), their recent anti-Linux campaign, and their very recent deal with Novell (Why in the world would Microsoft even consider making a deal with any version Linux while ~91% - used to be ~93% - of the population uses Windows? I don't see them making any deals with Macintosh, in fact it's quite the opposite - correct me if I'm wrong). A personal prophesy - Microsoft will be the next Goliath to fall, and Linux will be the David who will rise to rule the wold (see The gospel of Tux unearthed)

It's not up to me to make your decisions, though, so if you want to switch back to Windows, go for it! We'll still be here and welcome you back should you decide to return. Go and be blessed in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth

[luvr]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

Mounting a couple of drives - no problem, the graphical interface does that without much problem.

It does? I could do that with Ubuntu, but I cannot seem to figure out how to do it with Kubuntu.

My harddisk has a number of NTFS and ext3 partitions, which are not listed in the /etc/fstab file, though. Under Ubuntu, I could see them on the left-hand side of any Nautilus (file manager) window that I opened, from where I could easily access them; Ubuntu would automatically mount them for me as needed.

Does Kubuntu support anything similar?

By the way--I do not want to list the partitions in the /etc/fstab file, because I do not want to have them auto-mounted at startup, and the noauto option doesn't work in 7.04; see Bug #120829 in util-linux (Ubuntu): /dev/sda3 is mounted despite the 'noauto' option in fstab.

[Bongo5HH]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/mountlinux

I use this guide to mount my second hdd each time I install Linux.

Kev

[nilsA]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

Mounting a couple of drives - no problem, the graphical interface does that without much problem.

It does? I could do that with Ubuntu, but I cannot seem to figure out how to do it with Kubuntu.

My harddisk has a number of NTFS and ext3 partitions, which are not listed in the /etc/fstab file, though. Under Ubuntu, I could see them on the left-hand side of any Nautilus (file manager) window that I opened, from where I could easily access them; Ubuntu would automatically mount them for me as needed.

Does Kubuntu support anything similar?

By the way--I do not want to list the partitions in the /etc/fstab file, because I do not want to have them auto-mounted at startup, and the noauto option doesn't work in 7.04; see Bug #120829 in util-linux (Ubuntu): /dev/sda3 is mounted despite the 'noauto' option in fstab.

The last installation went the way all old Hard Disks go >

But, if I remember right - I used System Settings -> Advanced -> Disk and filesystems -> Administrator Mode -> highlight the partition etc. (On this PC the rest is in Japanese, and, as it's an experimental PC, I don't want to make the effort of fixing that.

Doing it by right clicking in Dolphin seems not to work.

[integr8e]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

:P You may want to be careful using the "Disk and Filesystems" utility, it isn't completely stable :P Currently, it's best to modify your fstab via CLI (Command Line Interface). If you want to find the UUID's of your partitions, run the command "ls -lhA /dev/disk/by-uuid"; that'll show you both the location and UUID of each partition on all your hard drives. Create a mount point for the hard drive you'd like to mount with the command "sudo mkdir /media/*", replacing "*" with the whatever you want to call the mount point. Then, open your fstab in a text editor and modify it; I prefer Kate, so I use the command "kdesu kate /etc/fstab". Once it opens, all you have to do is enter the following somewhere on a new line:

UUID=[UUID of the partition] [mount point] [FS type] [options] [dump] [pass]

Seems complicated, but it's not really; say I wanted to mount my /dev/sda5 partition, I would first need to find it's UUID:

~$ ls -lhA /dev/disk/by-uuid
total 0
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2008-01-07 23:38 36ec67e8-a984-4f62-9141-7b8b0b8bec94 -> ../../sda5

Next, I would create a mount point:

sudo mkdir /media/sda5

And finally, create an entry in my /etc/fstab config:

kdesu kate /etc/fstab

# /dev/sda5 <- lets me know what partition I'm mounting
UUID=36ec67e8-a984-4f62-9141-7b8b0b8bec94 /media/sda5 ext3 defaults 0 1

Just be sure to leave a blank line at the end of the file, and save and close it. Log out, restart X.org with Alt+E, log back in, and my /dev/sda5 partition should be mounted in /media/sda5, where I can modify its content as I please

Edit: If you don't know what filesystem type the partition is you're trying to mount, run the command "sudo parted"; if "parted" isn't installed, install it with the command

sudo aptitude install parted

Then, enter "print all" so the output looks something like the following:

~$ sudo parted
GNU Parted 1.7.1
Using /dev/sda
Welcome to GNU Parted! Type 'help' to view a list of commands.
(parted) print all

Disk /dev/sda: 200GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos

Number Start End Size Type File system Flags
1 32.3kB 197MB 197MB primary ext3 boot
2 197MB 3265MB 3068MB primary linux-swap
3 3265MB 126GB 123GB primary xfs
4 126GB 134GB 8192MB extended
5 126GB 134GB 8192MB logical ext3

You'll notice, I've emboldened and underlined "Disk /dev/sda: 200GB" and "5 126GB 134GB 8192MB logical ext3", that's because the number "5" means it's the 5th partition on hard drive "sda", which means it's location is "/dev/sda5"; you can see also that it's "File system" type is "ext3".

[nilsA]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

Well, maybe the System Settings tool is not 100% stable.

However, this is how I do it:

First System Setting -> Advanced -> Disk & Filesystems -> Administrator Mode (password)

Highlight the partition -> New -> Define a mount point and check the "Enable at start" box.
Highlight and press the "Enable" button. The black "Disabled" "LED" should nowq be green.

Now it is possible to access the drive in Dolphin, but not the next time the PC is (re)started.

At this point, the green triangle have disappeared in the icon in Dolphin.

Now, right click, choose Mounting, anc check the Mount automatically box.

[Craigels39]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

Setting up file shares, setting mount points and printers are all within the scope of the 'systems settings' GUI. It isn't perfect, but if you are working on something more complex, you should already know CLI better.

You could also try installing webmin. It's a suprisingly powerful setup that will let you administer almost anything through a secure browser connection. It can configure printers, Samba, disk mounting, SQL servers, even anti-virus. This is really nice for servers, but it makes desktop setup easy as well.

webmin.com is where you download webmin. There isn't a debian package that I know of, but the included install.sh script makes the install really easy.

There is also a HOWTO from the Ubuntu forums if you have more questions on it.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=7507

[nilsA]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

webmin.com is where you download webmin. There isn't a debian package that I know of,

Looks like it is there now; I have downloaded and will try it, as it promises to make Samba configuration simpler.

EDIT: Downloaded the deb package, installed and in browser:

httpa://localhost:1000

Nothing happens - or I get into wikipedia or ...

Can't find any real help

[CentaurHauler]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

Saying the Systems Settings interface "isn't perfect" is a cop-out. Important parts of it just do not work, and have not for at least the 2 distributions I have tried. I'm not trying to do anything complex - simple home networking and file/print sharing, make the display work, etc.

I'm 44 years old, and I'm and electrical engineer working with a group that designs products with embedded x86 processors. We all remember the old days of DOS, and the wonderful Command Line Interface. It got tiring years ago. A couple of the engineers I work with have tried various versions of Linux, and all have abandoned the attempt.

It's nice to be able to edit the config file when you absolutely have to, but with Kubuntu it is a requirement. It takes a LOT of hours just to figure out which parts of the Systems Setting GUI will work, which ones will not, and which ones will trash your working configuration. I poured hours and hours into figuring it out, trial and error and searching the web for answers, finding obscure files and typing in random text strings - and I have several systems up and running pretty well. I suppose if you really enjoy that kind of thing, then this is great fun, but the thrill of that kind of stuff left a long time ago for me (how many hundreds of times have have waited for PC's to reboot?). So I am not interested in an OS that requires such a high level of CLI configuration, and therefore it appears Kubuntu is not for me.

Kubuntu is great for those who do this for a hobby, but forget it when it comes to general use and acceptance by the general public.

[Snowhog]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

I sympathize with your sentiments. Specifically, I agree: If you are going to provide a GUI, it simply has to work - period. Not some of the time. Not most of the time. All of the time. And, if it doesn't, then it should not be included in the distribution.

I think, that were this so (fewer GUIs in K Menu, but the ones there ALWAYS work), you would have fewer new user complaints. GUIs are supposed to be 'friendly' interfaces to the underworkings of the application/system. This is what most/all users understand and expect of any GUI. Now, speaking only for myself, I don't get completely bent out of shape when I have to 'dig below the surface' to resolve a problem. I learn more about the OS that way. If I didn't want to be an OS mechanic, I wouldn't have moved over to Linux. But like a car you just purchased, you don't expect to have to be working on it more than you drive it.

So, Canonical, take note: Less is better if it all just works.

[Craigels39]

Re: Kubuntu makes me Kfurious

Code:

httpa://localhost:1000


Nothing happens - or I get into wikipedia or ...

The address should be 'https://localhost:10000'

If you had a typo in your browser, is it working now? If the typo is in your post, that's a different story.