ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

[asdinnie]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hi kubicle

Thanks for your reply.

Of course it's possible you can't get very high performance out of your 9250, as it's not listed as supported with the radeon driver.

Actually the radeon driver seems to think that the 9250 is supported, according to the log file!
Mind you, mine is a 9250 PRO (according to the sticker on it) so this might make a difference, especially as X seems to think its a 9200.
Actually there is something in the X log about a legacy driver being detected (so this might be what's happening).

Could you post the output of the command 'glxinfo' (just to check if there's anything useful there)

Here tis (attached).

You can also mail me the log file, and I'll take a quick look into it (to see if we can reduce the error messages)

Your email is hidden in your profile.
Thus I have tried to change the extension of a Gzip version of the file to PDF.
Hopefully it will be ok as a binary file (no conversion). If you remove the .pdf extension it should magically become a Gzip file again!

Many thanks

Cheers

Andy

[Fintan]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hers glxinfo as a reference:

name of display: :0.0
display: :0 screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
server glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer,
GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGI_swap_control,
GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group
client glx vendor string: SGI
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_allocate_memory,
GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer, GLX_MESA_swap_control,
GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_OML_sync_control,
GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_SGI_video_sync,
GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer,
GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
GLX version: 1.2
GLX extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_allocate_memory,
GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer, GLX_MESA_swap_control,
GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_SGI_make_current_read,
GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_SGIS_multisample,
GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group
OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R200 20060602 AGP 8x x86/MMX/SSE2 TCL
OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 7.0.1
OpenGL extensions:
GL_ARB_imaging, GL_ARB_multisample, GL_ARB_multitexture,
GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp,
GL_ARB_texture_compression, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map,
GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine,
GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3,
GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle,
GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object,
GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_window_pos, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_bgra,
GL_EXT_blend_color, GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate,
GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_EXT_blend_subtract,
GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_convolution,
GL_EXT_copy_texture, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_EXT_fog_coord,
GL_EXT_histogram, GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_point_parameters,
GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_EXT_secondary_color,
GL_EXT_separate_specular_color, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_subtexture,
GL_EXT_texture, GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp,
GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_EXT_texture_env_combine,
GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3, GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic,
GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp,
GL_EXT_texture_object, GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_vertex_array,
GL_APPLE_packed_pixels, GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate,
GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3, GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once,
GL_ATI_fragment_shader, GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip,
GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_INGR_blend_func_separate,
GL_MESA_pack_invert, GL_MESA_ycbcr_texture, GL_MESA_window_pos,
GL_NV_blend_square, GL_NV_light_max_exponent, GL_NV_texture_rectangle,
GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_OES_read_format, GL_SGI_color_matrix,
GL_SGI_color_table, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp,
GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp, GL_SGIS_texture_lod

visual x bf lv rg d st colorbuffer ax dp st accumbuffer ms cav
id dep cl sp sz l ci b ro r g b a bf th cl r g b a ns b eat
----------------------------------------------------------------------
0x23 24 tc 0 32 0 r y . 8 8 8 8 0 24 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 None
0x24 24 tc 0 32 0 r y . 8 8 8 8 0 24 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 None
0x25 24 tc 0 32 0 r y . 8 8 8 8 0 24 8 16 16 16 16 0 0 Slow
0x26 24 tc 0 32 0 r y . 8 8 8 8 0 24 0 16 16 16 16 0 0 Slow
0x27 24 tc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 24 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 None
0x28 24 tc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 24 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 None
0x29 24 tc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 24 8 16 16 16 16 0 0 Slow
0x2a 24 tc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 24 0 16 16 16 16 0 0 Slow
0x2b 24 dc 0 32 0 r y . 8 8 8 8 0 24 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 None
0x2c 24 dc 0 32 0 r y . 8 8 8 8 0 24 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 None
0x2d 24 dc 0 32 0 r y . 8 8 8 8 0 24 8 16 16 16 16 0 0 Slow
0x2e 24 dc 0 32 0 r y . 8 8 8 8 0 24 0 16 16 16 16 0 0 Slow
0x2f 24 dc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 24 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 None
0x30 24 dc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 24 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 None
0x31 24 dc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 24 8 16 16 16 16 0 0 Slow
0x32 24 dc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 24 0 16 16 16 16 0 0 Slow
0x67 32 tc 0 32 0 r . . 8 8 8 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ncon

glxgears gives me:
an average of 4600 frames per second.

ATI radeon 9250 pro
Gutsy default xorg.cong.

[asdinnie]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hi Fintan

I used your example xorg.conf and still not luck!!!
Only changes made were:
InputDevice
Option "XkbLayout" "ch" -> "us"
Option "XkbOptions" "lv3:ralt_switch" -> removed (not sure that this was needed).
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Acer AL1951" -> "Generic Monitor"

(see attached file for this new conf).


Removed my .dricf file to see if this was affecting it and my settings slowed down to ~750 fps.

Have you made any other changes? (eg. to your modules or blacklist file) ?
These are the only other changes I have made, apart from running driconf.

Have you made any other tweaks apart from the default Gutsy install?

How are these being loaded (previously in my detailed xorg.conf file)?

Section "Module"
	Load		"glx"
	Load		"GLcore"
	Load		"dri"
	Load		"v4l"
EndSection

I have looked at your glxinfo and cannot see any significant differences.

This is really weird as theoretically it should perform the same way as yours!
(unless my generic monitor is the cause of X being difficult here).

I have added the new xorg.conf file as an attachment.
The X log errors are the same as with the prior, more complex, xorg.conf config (that gave me the same 1100 fps).

Cheers

Andy

[kubicle]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Your email is hidden in your profile.

Ah, sorry, I forgot I hid it after a particularly busy spam-week

Anyway, I can't immediately spot any critical errors on your xorg log, and glxinfo output seems solid as well...I'll take another look on the log file when I have time to dig deeper, I'll let you know if I can think of ne things to try.

Seems odd Fintan can get such performance out of the same 9250 pro, might be one of those one of those 'turn-the-carpet-around-and-it-works' issues. Are you two using the same package version of the driver?

[Fintan]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hi kubicle and a happy new year to you
xserver-xorg-video-ati was installed by default. I am using the kubuntu default xorg.conf which the installation gave me.
No teaks, modifications, nada.

[asdinnie]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hi folks

Sorry about the delay in replying. Kids holidays, etc.

Firstly I removed all the settings that I previously put into /etc/modules & /etc/modprobe.d/blacklists in order to get close to the original system installed. No improvement.

Secondly, I have compared the log files between my system and Fintan's system to see whats different.
1. The cards report being exactly the same card
2. The versions of all the relevant drivers are the same and the same files appear to be loaded in the same order.
3. The only obvious points of difference (apart from a newer monitor for Fintan) are in the following lines:
o (II) PCI: End of PCI scan
(II) Intel Bridge workaround enabled (this is missing in Fintan's log)
o My log: (II) RADEON(0): Detected total video RAM=131072K,
accessible=131072K (PCI BAR=131072K)
(--) RADEON(0): Mapped VideoRAM: 131072 kByte (64 bit DDR SDRAM)
Fintan's log: (II) RADEON(0): Detected total video RAM=262144K,
accessible=131072K (PCI BAR=131072K)
(--) RADEON(0): Mapped VideoRAM: 131072 kByte (128 bit DDR SDRAM)

So it appears that my card does not detect as much RAM as Fintan's. Also my system is running RAM at a slower speed (I have DDR-400 memory)? The first issue may explain the problem (I can see no obvious jumpers on the card so I am wondering whether there may be some software settings on the card that might have been missed).

So I am trying to find a manual for this graphics card (the ATI website has taken it down) to remove this possibility. Does anyone have the manual in electric format (PDF) anywhere?
Fintan: Did you receive any software with the graphics card that might have fiddled with some hardware settings??

Any ideas if I am looking in the right direction folks?

Many thanks

Andy

[Fintan]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

So I am trying to find a manual for this graphics card (the ATI website has taken it down) to remove this possibility. Does anyone have the manual in electric format (PDF) anywhere?
Fintan: Did you receive any software with the graphics card that might have fiddled with some hardware settings??

Well I hope you had a nice holiday

To answer your question: No. When my old card died I put this guy in and just used it.

You probably are on the right track. I am no expert at this so take my words with a very large grain of himalayan salt.
You could set the ram of your card manually with:

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

You should have the same amount of ram as I do. Don't know why your kubuntu does not see that.

I also can't remember the RAM version I have but it is 5 years old so it is not the newest either, and I cannot remember the cli command to find out.

lshw

just tells me that I have 1gig RAM but not which type. I guess I'll have to reboot sometime and read the bios output.

[kubicle]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hi kubicle and a happy new year to you

And to you

(II) Intel Bridge workaround enabled (this is missing in Fintan's log)

My guess is that you have an intel based motherboard, and Fintan does not

o My log: (II) RADEON(0): Detected total video RAM=131072K,
accessible=131072K (PCI BAR=131072K)
(--) RADEON(0): Mapped VideoRAM: 131072 kByte (64 bit DDR SDRAM)
Fintan's log: (II) RADEON(0): Detected total video RAM=262144K,
accessible=131072K (PCI BAR=131072K)
(--) RADEON(0): Mapped VideoRAM: 131072 kByte (128 bit DDR SDRAM)

I think these refer to the ram present on your graphics card (as opposed to ram installed in your motherboard ram slots), 128 Mb is a common value in 9xxx radeon cards.

Some bios versions let you set shared memory for your graphics card to use (basically let your graphics card access your motherboard ram for extra ram)...Maybe that's why Fintan's system reports 256 Mb of total video ram. You could check your BIOS settings to see if you can set/change shared memory.

It also seems Fintan's card has 128-bit video ram as opposed to your 64-bit. This may affect performance, though I doubt it alone can make such a big difference.

[asdinnie]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hi kubicle & Fintan

Happy holidays to you both. And thanks for your kind wishes.

From Fintan's post:

I have done the "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" reconfig. It actually recognised my monitor. No big change. Actually slowed it down a frame or two, thats all.

Yes. I also have RAM about 4 years old. Actually I have more than what you have (1.256 GB)!


From Kubicle's post:

I was curious why there is a difference in the RAM reported by X when X reports it being the identical gfx card, even to the same revision number!

I have a Gigabyte motherboard. So I can only presume its using a Intel chipset, hence the bridge workaround line in the log.

Nothing in my BIOS is obvious about changing the RAM configuration.

And I agree with you about the ram differences not being the full (if any at all) reason for the speed differences experienced.


As I am running WINE as well I am going to look at the software setup for (gasp) XP from the ATI website to see if anything funny is happening to this gfx card.

If all else fails, I am going to reinstall Gutsy from scratch on this box to see if it will resolve the problem. So I am going to more than hang the carpet out to clean, kubuntu. I am going to send it to the drycleaners!

Thanks for help.

Cheers

Andy

[crl6904]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hi.

Sorry that I haven't been answering lately (but have bee looking at the updates once in a while), must prepare for knee surgury monday.

When I had the problem, I had the feeling that it was either in two different areas : x11 or the modules that I loaded/removed. I thought that the problem was in the second but I never found where. If I where to try it today I'd run the live CD and see what is in and what isn't.

It may not help but may be worth a try....

take care
crl6904

[asdinnie]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Hi all.

Have finally reinstalled Gutsy as a clean system, vanilla ATI drivers/details in xorg.conf.

Same old problem, about 1100 fps in glxgears & 3D programs are sluggish.

Just checking that I have not missed anything during the install?
- libgl1-mesa-dri installed
- libgl1-mesa-glx installed
- Just checking: I do not need to install glide3 (libgl1-mesa-glide3) ??

- DRI is working according to glxinfo
- no scary messages in the X log file
- no leftovers from fglrx

Else I am completely stumped.
It should be the same as Fintan's system, except I am having just 25% of the 3D performance.

I can only then assume there is something wierd/dodgy with the gfx card or its internal configuration. And I presume that I'd need some Windows system to interrogate the card to see if its kosher (there is no BIOS option for the gfx card upon boot).

(deep sigh)

Cheers

Andy

[Fintan]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

I can only then assume there is something wierd/dodgy with the gfx card or its internal configuration.

That would be my guess as well. As we have the same basic setup.

My last card took a long time to die as well. This one will be replaced asap as amd/ati are not supporting it anymore (it is a good 5 years old)
Besides, although it was just good enough to run stuff like compiz, but just barely, it wasn't anywhere near newer cards with fps as high as 25000!

[asdinnie]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

Thanks Fintan. I have an inkling its the problem now...

Any idea on where to find out which of the current "reasonably priced" AGP8 cards on the market work well (ie at a decent speed) with Gutsy?
I have been looking around on the websites but the info usually seems dated.
This is so I do not repeat the current "falling through the cracks" dramas with any new gfx card.

Most of the gfx cards now sold are PCI-E based cards, which would not suit my system nor yours

Cheers

Andy

[Fintan]

Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

A good place to start is here:
http://ati.amd.com/support/driver.html

you will want to find the cards supported by the latest driver version 7.12 (as of 12.20.07)
and see which ones fit your budget. I have not chosen one yet, because I don't know how much I want to spend on this machine. It to is almost 6 years old

I hope that helps
Cheers
fintan