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    #16
    Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

    Regardless of what they say, I'd like to see if it can be made to work on a supposedly unsupported card...
    For external use only.

    Comment


      #17
      Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

      Ok...... Well, according to my research you can make it work with an older version of the proprietary driver and an older kernel. Take a look at the post I pointed you to above. Or I believe you can use the ati driver and still get 3d working with the appropriate configuration. It is up to you. If Sheeetin knows what to do, I will watch and learn. The errors in your log indicate to me that your card is not supported. Some are spurious, but some are catastrophic. Good luck.

      Comment


        #18
        Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

        Hi all

        Thanks to all for your helpful advice.

        As a result, I have some good news but not all good news.

        The good news is that I now have DRI working by using the radeon driver (the fglrx driver is a dead loss here- sorry SheeEttin for your help on the new driver).

        Not so good news is that its still at a sluggish pace (compared to other results).

        Most of the info came from the How To (http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=9200.0 and crl6904's similar issues (http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3087210.0).
        Hence it IS possible to get the older Radeon cards running DRI under Gutsy.

        Basically I did the following:
        1. Removed the fglrx driver both from xorg.conf and the system (5 packages removed). Better to start w/o the fglrx driver in the first place it seems.
        2. Replaced it with the radeon driver & put new radeon settings into xorg.conf
        3. Ran the 'driconf' utility and enabled 'Use HyperZ to boost performance'

        My benchmarks have gone from ~ 300 fps with glxgears to ~ 750 fps at the moment.
        A little too slow still to run any useful 3D application. But better than it was before.
        However the How To above indicates its possible to get between 2000 fps and 4000 fps (not sure which version of Kubuntu kubicle was using.)
        Now anything over 2000 fps would be really good!

        Issue 1: Clearly some basic tuning of xorg.conf is needed. (sections listed below)

        Issue 2: There still are some warnings within X when it boots to be resolved.
        No errors are present.
        Warnings are listed below.

        This may be because the How To is dated back to September 2006 and things (options) may have moved on since then with X, Kubuntu &/or the Radeon driver.

        Any help from those more experienced with configuring X would be most appreciated.

        Cheers

        Andy

        --

        Relevant sections of xorg.conf are as follows:

        Section "Device"
        Identifier "ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]"
        Boardname "ATI Radeon"
        Busid "PCI:1:0:0"
        driver "radeon"
        vendorname "ATI"
        option "VideoOverlay" "on"
        option "UseInternalAGPGART" "no"
        Option "RenderAccel" "on"
        Option "AGPMode" "8"
        Option "EnablePageFlip" "on"
        Option "AGPFastWrite" "1"
        Option "BusType" "PCI"
        Screen 0
        Option "MergedFB" "off"
        EndSection

        Section "device" #
        Identifier "device1"
        Boardname "ATI Radeon"
        Busid "PCI:1:0:0"
        Driver "radeon"
        Screen 1
        Vendorname "ATI"
        Option "MergedFB" "off"
        EndSection

        (at the very EOF)

        Section "DRI"
        Mode 0666
        EndSection


        X warnings are as follows:

        (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic" does not exist.
        (WW) RADEON: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:1:0:1) found
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) RADEON(0): No crtc mode list for crtc 1,continuing with desired mode
        (WW) RADEON(0): Option "VideoOverlay" is not used
        (WW) RADEON(0): Option "UseInternalAGPGART" is not used
        (WW) RADEON(0): Option "MergedFB" is not used
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x23
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x24
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x25
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x26
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x27
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x28
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x29
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2a
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2b
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2c
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2d
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2e
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2f
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x30
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x31
        (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x32
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
        (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing


        --

        Comment


          #19
          Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

          are you sure that you are doing only 750fps?

          That's what I'm doing right now and I noticed that it is what it does when you have no 3D apps running.

          Try
          Code:
          glxgears
          and open, without closing glxgears, open office. See what happens. Mine jumps to X.000 fps.

          It has trouble with torcs and bouncy the rabbit (both don't work), but somethings can be done (supertuxcart).



          Comment


            #20
            Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

            Hi crl6904

            The most I get in any circumstance at the moment is ~ 750 fps with glxgears.

            The issue is that almost any useful 3D program has quite a lag with the graphics.
            Others appeared to have much better success with somewhat the same configuration (but different versions of Kubuntu/X).

            What's your configuration looking like (eg. xorg.conf)?

            I have looked at xorg.conf with my teenage son and can see no obvious changes.
            Currently I suspect that the errors coming from X are part (or all?) of the cause of the lagging graphics.

            Cheers

            Andy

            Comment


              #21
              Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

              I'll provide some information here as you asked for input (PM)

              The root of your problem with the radeon driver (the open source 3d driver for radeon cards), is probably that it doesn't seem to (at least not fully) support 9250 cards. It does support for example 9000, 9200 and 9500 cards (see 'man radeon' for a complete list), which may be why your card is identified as a 9200. It probably also explains the low performance (750 fps).

              As a comparison, although glxgears is not a perfect benchmarking tool, I get 4000 fps with an older 9000 card with the 'radeon' driver.

              Unfortunately, I think support for 9250 cards has also been dropped from fglrx (closed source driver) some time ago, but you can of course try it...it may still work to some extent at least...or use a really old fglrx driver if you can find it.

              If you choose to continue using the 'radeon' driver, you can probably tone down the xorg errors you posted by editing your xorg.conf:

              1.
              (WW) RADEON(0): Option "VideoOverlay" is not used
              (WW) RADEON(0): Option "UseInternalAGPGART" is not used
              (WW) RADEON(0): Option "MergedFB" is not used
              These are 'fglrx' only options, not used with 'radeon' driver, comment them out (or delete)

              2.
              (WW) RADEON: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:1:0:1) found
              This suggest you haven't written a configuration for the second (dvi?) interface on your card, it's not necessary if you don't have a second monitor connected to the card.

              3.
              (WW) EDID preferred timing clock 202.50MHz exceeds claimed max 150MHz, fixing
              You can try to 'fix' this with the
              Option "IgnoreEDID" "on"

              4. Further options you can try to improve the performance:
              Option "AGPFastWrite" "on"
              Option "EnablePageFlip" "on"
              Option "ColorTiling" "on"
              Option "AccelMethod" "EXA"
              EDIT: I noticed you already have some of these enabled, sorry :P

              Read 'man radeon' to see the descriptions of what they do (and for other possible options not mentioned here), and try adding the options one at a time to see the effects on performance...some options may cause unstability on some systems.

              As a reference, here's my (relevant part of) xorg.conf:
              (NOTE some of the option mentioned are the defaults, only written down for clarity)
              Section "Device"
              identifier "ATI Technologies, Inc. Radeon 9000 Pro (RV250 If)"
              boardname "ATI Radeon"
              busid "PCI:1:0:0"
              driver "radeon"
              vendorname "ATI"
              Option "RenderAccel" "on"
              Option "AGPMode" "4"
              Option "EnablePageFlip" "on"
              Option "AGPFastWrite" "on"
              Option "DRI" "on"
              Option "ColorTiling" "on"
              Option "AccelMethod" "XAA"
              EDIT: These options you have also seem to contradict each other:
              Option "AGPMode" "8"
              Option "BusType" "PCI"
              Is your card in a PCI or AGP slot?
              BusType should be auto detected without forcing it with the option.

              Comment


                #22
                Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                Hi kubicle

                Thanks for your considered (and editted ) response.

                I have had a look at the dri.freedesktop.org wiki as well as the X log file and your comments.
                It may be well possible that the 9250 fall between the cracks for both the fglrx and radeon drivers ...


                Firstly, yes, my AGP card has two connectors on it, as follows:

                (--) PCI:*(1:0:0) ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO] rev 1, Mem @ 0xe8000000/27, 0xf9000000/16, I/O @ 0xa000/8
                (--) PCI: (1:0:1) ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO] (Secondary) rev 1, Mem @ 0xf0000000/27, 0xf9010000/16

                Some enlightenment has occured.

                - using Option "BusType" "AGP" (Busid either "AGP:1:0:0" or "PCI:1:0:0")

                X appears to recognise the card as a Radeon 9250 and as an AGP card if I tell X (via xorg.conf) that its an AGP card.
                It loads relevant AGP radeon drivers for the card (supposedly its supported)
                However it says AGP not available and reverts to software acceleration. Thus glxgears gives ~ 300 fps.
                Same things happens whether I specify the Busid here as either "AGP:1:0:0" or "PCI:1:0:0"

                Wierdly, the PCI bus reports the card as a 9200 PRO (see below) while the radeon driver reports it as a 9250 PRO (see below)...

                Relevant log file contents follow:

                (II) Reloading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//radeon_drv.so
                (II) RADEON: Driver for ATI Radeon chipsets: ATI Radeon QD (AGP),

                [snip]

                ATI Radeon Mobility 9200 IGP 7835, ATI Radeon 9250 5960 (AGP),

                (--) Chipset ATI Radeon 9250 5960 (AGP) found

                [snip]

                (II) RADEON(0): [drm] DRM interface version 1.3
                (II) RADEON(0): [drm] created "radeon" driver at busid "pci:0000:01:00.0"
                (II) RADEON(0): [drm] added 8192 byte SAREA at 0xf8cc7000
                (II) RADEON(0): [drm] mapped SAREA 0xf8cc7000 to 0xb7af8000
                (II) RADEON(0): [drm] framebuffer handle = 0xe8000000
                (II) RADEON(0): [drm] added 1 reserved context for kernel
                (WW) RADEON(0): [agp] AGP not available
                (EE) RADEON(0): [agp] AGP failed to initialize. Disabling the DRI.
                (II) RADEON(0): [agp] You may want to make sure the agpgart kernel module
                is loaded before the radeon kernel module.


                - using Option "BusType" "PCI" & Busid "PCI:1:0:0"


                It tells me that its forced into PCI mode.
                So I get basic hardware acceleration as a PCI card.
                Hence glxgears gives slowish speeds (~ 750 fps).

                Also it cannot seem to initially find /dev/dri/card0, twice (not sure if this is important?).

                Relevant log file contents follow:

                (--) RADEON(0): Chipset: "ATI Radeon 9250 5960 (AGP)" (ChipID = 0x5960)
                (--) RADEON(0): Linear framebuffer at 0xe8000000
                (II) RADEON(0): AGP card detected
                (**) RADEON(0): Forced into PCI mode
                (II) RADEON(0): Legacy BIOS detected
                drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
                drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device or address)
                drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device or address)
                drmOpenDevice: Open failed
                drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:01:00.0
                drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
                drmOpenDevice: open result is 7, (OK)


                - using the BusType default

                I think it reverts to a AGP card and results are as per "AGP" above.


                Questions:

                1. I am not sure how to load the agpart kernel first (the AGP errors above).

                2. Its got me real confused otherwise, any enlightenment possible??




                The other problem is that now the system is a little unstable (eg. Firefox tends to freeze the system if I load two tabs up). Needs the magic "on/off" switch solution.
                So I also need to look at the settings to sort that out

                Cheers

                Andy

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                  As was mentioned earlier, don't get too hung up on glxgears. It's pretty but nearly meaningless. My ATI cards generally run a much higher frame rate on the OS driver or fglrx from the repositories, but games run much faster with the proprietary driver. My message, focus on the performance of the applications you want to run, not glxgears.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                    Hi lingenfr

                    Actually the difference between the two configs is noticeable.
                    BTW The glx gears is a vaguely useful indicator to me to see how the config is going. I have checked using 3D apps and the improvement between the configs roughly indicates what glxgears supports.

                    I am trying to find out the causes of the wierd AGP messages in the X log at the moment (listed in the last post)
                    It may be the clue to fixing the problem.

                    Cheers

                    Andy

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                      1. Don't change the BusID, it should be PCI even if it's an AGP slot (yup...confusing)

                      2. If it is an AGP card, don't force Bustype to PCI, either use AGP or let it autodetect.

                      3. This seems to be in the heart of the problem (as you suspected):
                      (WW) RADEON(0): [agp] AGP not available
                      (EE) RADEON(0): [agp] AGP failed to initialize. Disabling the DRI.
                      (II) RADEON(0): [agp] You may want to make sure the agpgart kernel module
                      is loaded before the radeon kernel module.
                      There seems to be a bug report with quite similar symptoms to yours:
                      https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source....20/+bug/78684
                      You could try the solutions offered on the report...blacklisting the edac modules seems to have worked for a number of people.

                      You can test whether those modules are loaded on your machine with
                      Code:
                      lsmod | grep edac
                      Another thing you might try is setting the Agpmode option to 4 (just in case your hardware doesn't support AGPv3)

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                        Hi kubicle

                        Thanks for your helpful reply.

                        Thanks for the clarification on Bus ID's & ports. Actually i have to force bus-type at the moment to PCI to get the faster (of the slow) configs working.

                        I have read the launchpad bug report you described, thanks. Certainly sounds like my problem (even the same error messages!).
                        Seems this one has been around for a while and also affects Nvidia cards as well as the Radeon ones.

                        Will try the load order for modules & blacklisting tomorrow if I get time (kids, NY eve!).
                        Else Tuesday it will be done with my teenager providing commentary

                        edac is being loaded, accordimg to lsmod.
                        I'll also check the Agpmode setting.

                        X is prone to freezing at the moment (with the new settings) so I'll have my hands full.

                        Many thanks once again for your help.

                        Cheers

                        Andy

                        PS Happy New Year to all as well.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                          Originally posted by asdinnie
                          Actually i have to force bus-type at the moment to PCI to get the faster (of the slow) configs working.
                          That's because the AGP error disables DRI on your card when you set the bus AGP. Once you get it fixed you should get better performance with AGP.

                          edac is being loaded, accordimg to lsmod.
                          That's sort of good news, it means the modules could be the cause for your AGP issue (as mentioned in the bug report)

                          Will try the load order for modules & blacklisting tomorrow if I get time (kids, NY eve!).
                          Else Tuesday it will be done with my teenager providing commentary
                          Do report back to let us know how it goes

                          PS Happy New Year to all as well.
                          And to you

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                            Hi kubicle

                            Just to let you know how this is faring, as requested
                            (its taking longer than the plot in a Tolstoy novel at the moment).

                            Have finally (sigh...) got some sort of AGP working on the system. Its taken hours & hours.
                            Only outstanding issues are X errors and some speed questions (lagging).



                            Basic Changed To Get Things Running

                            1. change /etc/modeprobe.d/blacklist to add following lines (as per bug report)

                            blacklist i82875p_edac
                            blacklist edac_mc


                            2. change /etc/modules to add following lines (as per bug report)

                            agpgart
                            intel_agp
                            drm
                            radeon


                            3. change xorg.conf to have the following:

                            Driver "ati" in Section "Device" & Section "device" # previously "radeon"

                            That was the main change to xorg.conf.
                            Apparently the "radeon" driver is automatically called by "ati".
                            Using "radeon" itself freezes X on my system...

                            Used the Ubuntu wiki documentation as a guide
                            https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ra...37ff7b65f55b78)


                            4. other specific changes to xorg.conf to get it working.

                            Code:
                            Section "Device"
                            
                                Option     "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps"
                            
                            Section "ServerLayout"
                            
                                Option     "AIGLX"     "true"
                            
                            
                            At EOF:
                            
                            #
                            Section "DRI"
                                Mode 0666
                            EndSection
                            #
                            Section "Extensions"
                                Option "Composite" "Enable"
                            EndSection

                            X System Tuning

                            I also have been trying to tune the system as follows (using the wiki):

                            Code:
                            [u]xconf.org: Section "Device"[/u]
                            
                            #
                                Option     "AGPMode"    "8"  #usually not needed, the driver will use the setting from BIOS. is AGP "4" safer??
                                Option     "AccelMethod"  "XAA" #either XAA or EXA. "XAA" is the default and safe choice
                                Option     "ColorTiling"  "on"
                                Option     "EnablePageFlip" "true" #only works with accelmethod "XAA"
                                Option     "AccelDFS"    "true" #seemed to speed things up using EXA acceleration
                            #    Option     "TripleBuffer"  "true" #This *might* help if you use something like Beryl and have slow video playback.
                            #    Option     "DMAForXv"    "true" #This can speed up movie playback but can in rare cases case instability
                                Option     "GARTSize"    "64"  #This is the size of the "GART" that xorg will use.
                            #
                            	Option "IgnoreEDID" "on" # gets rid of "EDID preferred timing clock ... fixing" warnings
                            #
                            #	 Option "AGPFastWrite" "true" # considered very dangerous, use with caution! - Ubuntu wiki
                            	Option "UseInternalAGPGART" "no"
                            #	 Option "DisableGLXRootClipping" "true"
                            #	 Option "AddARGBGLXVisuals" "true"
                            #	 Option "AllowGLXWithComposite" "true"
                            This got me to about 1100fps in glxgears (previously 750 under software acceleration)


                            driconf

                            I used driconf to change "Hyper Z" to "yes".
                            And it actually slowed down my system to 750 fps again ( caused many expletives to be thought!).

                            Deleted the %home%/.drirc file and reran driconf.
                            It somehow got its act sorted and boosted the fps back up to ~ 1100 fps.

                            Currently I am stuck about 1100fps in glxgears (the other 3D apps, eg. pouetChess appear to show about the same improvement).
                            Nowhere near the 2500-4000 fps you were/are getting.


                            X errors.

                            Quite a few X warnings are coming up in the log file, as well as a heap of screen related messages.

                            X Warnings:

                            Some of the X errors are coming up as follows:
                            Code:
                            (WW) RADEON(0): No crtc mode list for crtc 1,continuing with desired mode
                            (WW) RADEON(0): DRI init changed memory map, adjusting ...
                            (WW) RADEON(0):  MC_FB_LOCATION was: 0xefffe800 is: 0xefffe800
                            (WW) RADEON(0):  MC_AGP_LOCATION was: 0xffffffc0 is: 0xe3ffe000
                            
                            [u]Example screen/monitor related messages (heaps of them):[/u]
                            (II) RADEON(0): Not using mode "1600x1200" (height too large for virtual size)
                            (II) RADEON(0): Not using default mode "640x350" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan)
                            My assumption is that too many screen settings are being loaded into xorg.conf (these came as the defaults from my original Gutsy install/dpkg).
                            This may be making the X system more complex and also slowing it down

                            Should I simplify these somehow? (eg. the Ubuntu radeon wiki (see above) says the following)
                            Code:
                            Section "Monitor"
                                Identifier   "Generic Monitor"
                                Option     "DPMS"
                                HorizSync    28-72
                                VertRefresh   43-60
                            EndSection
                            
                            Identifier is the name you want to give your monitor. 
                            The DPMS option is a power management option -but i am not sure about that anymore- anyway, it will certainly be compatible with your hardware. 
                            HorizSync and VertRefresh options are often not necessary. However for me they are. 
                            These are given in the example but are pretty much standard. You can refer to your monitor's documentation to find them.
                            
                            
                            The "Screen" section
                            
                            It will basically look like that:
                            
                            Section "Screen"
                                Identifier   "Default Screen"
                                Device     "Radeon 9600"
                                Monitor     "Generic Monitor"
                                DefaultDepth  24
                                SubSection "Display"
                                    Depth      24
                                    Modes      "1440x900" "1024x768"
                                EndSubSection
                            EndSection

                            So this is where I am at.


                            Any ideas on tuning/speeding up X/3D and reducing the X warnings would be greatfully appreciated.

                            BTW It appears that my system does not like EXA, only XAA. EXA seems to also freeze the X system.

                            Cheers

                            Andy

                            PS I have added the xorg.conf and the X log file, just in case they are needed.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                              xorg.conf file is here

                              i'll have to email the log file on request as it's too large to post here >

                              cheers
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: ATI Radeon 9250 PRO - 3D graphics at snails pace

                                Well...some progress at least.

                                Of course it's possible you can't get very high performance out of your 9250, as it's not listed as supported with the radeon driver.

                                Could you post the output of the command 'glxinfo' (just to check if there's anything useful there)

                                You can also mail me the log file, and I'll take a quick look into it (to see if we can reduce the error messages)

                                btw, your xorg.conf seems to have (redundant) secondary entries for your card and monitor (at the bottom)...shouldn't have any effect, but if you want to clean it up.

                                Comment

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