Multiverse repos

[cadfael]

The multiverse repos really ought to be included in the default sources.list (although commented out). It's a pretty safe bet that any user today is going to want to (e.g.) play MP3s, which requires packages in the multiverse repose (such as libxine-extracodecs).

Or is this some sort of intentional learning curve issue? "If you want to listen to your music, you <i>have</i> to figure out the package manager...?"

[aysiu]

Re: Multiverse repos

I'm wondering if it's a legal/cost issue--even if it's commented out.

[sky]

Re: Multiverse repos

Aysiu is right I think it's a legal issue because mp3 is not gpl based for example.

Cheers

[tonihele]

Re: Multiverse repos

Yes, to my personal experience, people that are eager to switch to Linux, abandon it very soon after installation because they simply can't play MP3s!!! And because many of them, haven't heard the term Linux before, you can't even image how to start fixing this problem. I couldn't fix it either before they switched back to Windows... This is really annoying!

And I can't even find the package from .fi multiverses, the xinelib-extracodecs I mean . The fix is hard, and the problem is big!

[tonihele]

Re: Multiverse repos

Look at it this way, your friend is making a switch to Kubuntu from Windows:
- "Well, to play games you need to wait weeks after the release to make them work, or even dream about it"
- "Um, that's okay, Civ IV is great but there is just one game released / year that I want"
- "Oh, and you can't play MP3s or watch any movies without studying the Linux world for weeks"

It really does break your heart...

[Fenyx]

Re: Multiverse repos

I guess the Ubuntu page needs something like a very visible link/text that says that it doesn't support restricted codecs/formats, because a lot of people end up asking these, without coming across the RestrictedFormats section.

Regarding the different "components" of Ubuntu (main, restricted, universe, multiverse), this might be an interesting read: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components

@tonihele: there were some replies already to what you posted in another thread. I won't repeat them here.

Anyway, while MP3's and games seem to be one the most common things desktop users use, aside for word processing and browsing, it's not entirely Linux's fault that support for these is not so easy to get. For one, MP3 is a propriety format, and you need to pay licensing (or is it royalty?) fees to have encoders/decoders for it.

Secondly, most games nowadays are built around Windows and/or Mac because these two OS'es are more popular. It's not entirely easy to port these games, especially since they are closed source. This is further complicated by the fact that some games are built around Direct X, a MS only product. And then, you have to take into account that some game makers actually don't want to make a Linux version for their games.

People in Linux are always trying their best to be able to provide ways to enable users to use these things. But they can only do so much, as their hands are tied when it comes to legal issues.

Oh, and you don't need to study Linux for weeks to be able to play MP3s or watch movies. That absolutely false. There are other distributions out there that provide built-in support for these things. So just because Ubuntu doesn't offer them built-in, doesn't mean all other distributions do the same.

[KStorm]

Re: Multiverse repos

Yes, to my personal experience, people that are eager to switch to Linux, abandon it very soon after installation because they simply can't play MP3s!!! And because many of them, haven't heard the term Linux before, you can't even image how to start fixing this problem. I couldn't fix it either before they switched back to Windows... This is really annoying!

And I can't even find the package from .fi multiverses, the xinelib-extracodecs I mean . The fix is hard, and the problem is big!

libxine-extracodecs showed up with my list of repositories:

## Uncomment the following two lines to fetch updated software from the network
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper main restricted
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper main restricted
## Uncomment the following two lines to fetch major bug fix updates produced
## after the final release of the distribution.
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-updates main restricted
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-updates main restricted
## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from the 'universe'
## repository.
## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
## team, and may not be under a free licence. Please satisfy yourself as to
## your rights to use the software. Also, please note that software in
## universe WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu security
## team.
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security universe
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security universe
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper multiverse
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper multiverse
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse

Currently enjoying mp3 with amaroK! Yea baby!

[tonihele]

Re: Multiverse repos

Yes, I found the package. I had the multiverse in "backports" and I thought it would do it, but yes it didn't . Thanks.

Linux is not the choice for gamers, that's true. And I think these guys behind Wine and Cedega do a great job, as well as the whole open source people. I know I'm a programmer myself, just for Windows currently. Everything in Linux seems so greatly done that there is no or little room to be better ! At least because I don't yet know my way in Linux-world, so don't no what should I expect from each program, they just feel good

I'm still with the myths, I just know xUbuntu and all the rest Linuxes are just some commandline monsters! That is not the truth...

[gregwalton]

Re: Multiverse repos

I'm still with the myths, I just know xUbuntu and all the rest Linuxes are just some commandline monsters! That is not the truth...

But it would be easy to think it was the truth from forums like this. It concerns me a bit that almost every piece of help that is offered is in the form of "type this into a console" when in fact most problems can be solved through a GUI interface (if you know where to find it!).

OK the console seems the easiest way to communicate a fix but it is not ideal for a newbie. I don't want to just type in what someone has told me: I probably don't understand what it is doing so I don't know if there's a typo in there that's going to mess up my system.

I know it's more work but it would be nice to see more help that's around steering people through the GUI menus. It would give those of us who are just looking for an alternative to Windoze the feeling that we may be on the right track.

[Fenyx]

Re: Multiverse repos

Becoming off-topic... but still:

I usually adapt my answers to questions, depending on the presumed level of the poster when it comes to familiarity with Linux. If he/she is more or less familiar with the command prompt/editing files manually, I usually give them the fastest way to do things: CLI. If the poster is obviously new to the game, I go through the long and give them almost step by step instructions on what to do using the GUI. But, if I had the time/resources, I would probably give answers in both ways, GUI and CLI.

The advantage of giving advice using CLI is really to destroy the myth surrounding it. CLI is not really difficult to use. The only reason people think so is because people are no longer used to it. What better way to become familiar with it than by actually using it. While I do not underestimate the usefulness and user-friendliness of the GUI, I also do not discount the speed and efficiency of the CLI. It's not just because it's easier to communicate solutions using CLI, it's because it's actually easier to do so, on the part of the user. Most of the time, there's no need to re-type the commands, you just have to copy-paste them.

While Linux is no longer the "command line monster" that it once was, it should neither become the "mindless graphical interface zombie" that some OSes are (you know what/who I mean). I like GUIs. I like eye candies. But I would also like to encourage people to think out of the box and to try and see for themselves how powerful (or difficult, your pick) the CLI can be.

[kubicle]

Re: Multiverse repos

But it would be easy to think it was the truth from forums like this. It concerns me a bit that almost every piece of help that is offered is in the form of "type this into a console" when in fact most problems can be solved through a GUI interface (if you know where to find it!).

OK the console seems the easiest way to communicate a fix but it is not ideal for a newbie. I don't want to just type in what someone has told  me: I probably don't understand what it is doing so I don't know if there's a typo in there that's going to mess up my system.

I know it's more work but it would be nice to see more help that's around steering people through the GUI menus. It would give those of us who are just looking for an alternative to Windoze the feeling that we may be on the right track.

GUI instructions are good when they can be described efficiently and easily, but there are a few problems with giving GUI paths:

1. For some (few) tasks...there still isn't a GUI available
2. For some tasks there are multiple GUI tools available
3. There may be language/translation issues with GUI tools (for example the helper has a german interface and the helpee has french)
...etc.

Of course these obstacles can be overcome, but often people don't have the time to thoroughly describe all the possible GUI options in every post they make...I try to include GUI possibilities whenever I can (especially if the poster asks for a GUI way to do it)...but sometimes it's just more effective to offer a CLI alternative. -> Usually it's possible to answer 5 questions with a CLI solution in the time used by one thorough GUI answer :P

Of course it's always better to post a description of what the CLI command actually does so the asker doesn't have to run it 'blind'...also if the answer fails to provide such a description, it's always a good idea to quickly browse through the man page of the command to get an idea of what it's supposed to do.

[xoseramus]

Re: Multiverse repos

I dont know, whats goin on rock? I download xmms and I don't have any problem with mp3