Help with an external install

[komega]

Here's the architecture of my computer:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor (thus I have been using the amd iso, NOT the i386 iso)
1 GB RAM
External hard drive- USB 20 GB (always come up as /dev/sdg)
RADEON X700 Pro (but to install I always have to switch to my onboard video card)


Hello all,

I've been unsuccessfully trying to install Edgy for about a month on an external USB hard drive that I put togethor.

I was hoping that upgrading to Feisty would, for some unknown and miraculous reason, solve my problems. It did not.

I did a normal install (erasing all of the partitions on my external) but still got a GRUB error 18. I have not found a way around this yet.

I documented everything else that I did in this thread: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...;topicseen#new (it gets better towards the bottom). I have no reason to believe that anything else that I do would result in something different. The only difference so far is that when I shut-down or restart I am able to press enter and it actually restarts whereas before it would just hang there.

Here's the summary of what I did in Edgy and the varying results:


1.a- normal install using LiveCD, top drive (it's a lightscribe), and X700 video card
1.b- error after choosing to install (before even getting to the desktop) that just gave me a command line and said the drivers wouldn't work
Note- from then on, I always used the second CD-ROM drive (it's just a normal CD-RW+/- and DVD-R

2.a- normal install using LiveCD, second CD, and drive RADEON X700 video card
2.b- error after choosing to install (before even getting to the desktop) that enough memory couldn't be allocated to my PCI card
Note- from then on I always used my onboard video card without a problem

3.a- normal install using LiveCD, second CD drive, and onboard video card
3.b- install completed but I got a GRUB error 15 after GRUB stage 1.5
Note- never got a GRUB boot menu and couldn't access one

4.a.- normall install using LiveDVD, second CD drive, and onboard video card
4.b- install completed but I got a GRUB error 15 message after GRUB stage 1.5
Note- never got a GRUB boot menu and couldn't access one

5.a- normal install using LiveCD, second CD drive, and onboard video card following this method in Linux via LiveCD: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
5.b- install completed but I got a GRUB error 18 message after GRUB stage 1.5

6.a- normal install using LiveCD, second CD drive, and X700 video card following this method in Windows XP Pro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
6.b- install completed but I got a GRUB error 18 message after GRUB stage 1.5

7.a- normall install using Alternate Install CD, second CD drive, and onboard video following this method: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=80811
7.b- see second to last post here: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...;topicseen#new

8.a- got a 3.5" to 2.5" IDE adaptor, unplugged internal drive and plugged in my external hard drive, installed using LiveCD, second CD drive, and onboard video
8.b- received GRUB error (don't remember if it was 15 or 18)
Note- never got a GRUB boot menu and could never access one, never tried adaptor again (I no longer have it as I borrowed it from work)

9.a- normal install using LiveCD, second CD drive, and onboard video, I also partitioned during the installation to give it a boot (at the beginning) (ext3), swap (ext3), and root (ext3) partitions, installed GRUB to (hd1,0) (instead of the normal (hd1))
9.b- received GRUB error 15

10.a- normal install using LiveCD, second CD drive, and onboard video, I also partitioned during installation to give it a boot (at the beginning) (ext3), swap (ext3), root (ext3), shared (FAT), and SDG partition (FAT), installed SDG on SDG partition using this method: http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzo...kPage.html#bob
10.b- see last post here: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...;topicseen#new


So that's what I did with Edgy and I doubt I would get different results with Feisty.

I did most of that from memory so some of the information might be a little off but I think/hope that it'll be enough.

I know that I could just install GRUB on my internal drive and that would probably solve everything, but I want this to be a truly mobile OS.

Question- could I use the i386 iso to install on my machine even though it's AMD? Then I think I would have a much greater chance of getting it to work on other machines (because most besides mine that I interact with are not AMD64 machines). Alternatively, is it likely that an amd iso install will work on i386 type machines? If so, then I'll definitely keep trying to install the AMD64 iso so MY hardware can be optimized.

Note- I only used disks that passed the Kubuntu defect detection
Note- I can boot from a USB drive from my BIOS
Note- it seems to me that the partitioning tool within the installer is inferior to its previous versions. It still has all the same capabilities but now it takes a lot longer to make partitions because it has to scan and update after every one made (which takes about 25 seconds each time). Why'd they change that?

I apologize for the very long post but I've been at this for over a month with no results (besides possibly a lower GPA). Thus, any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Personally, I think the SGD idea (number 10) has the most potential. I just don't know my way around SGD well enough to get it to fix my problems.

Thank you very much for your time and assistance.

[javierrivera]

Re: Help with an external install

First of all, I'm sorry, I don't have any experience installing from USB. But I can help you with the architecture questions:

Question- could I use the i386 iso to install on my machine even though it's AMD?

Yes.

Alternatively, is it likely that an amd iso install will work on i386 type machines?

No.

It's not about intel against AMD, it's about 32 or 64 bits. 64 bits machines can run 32 bits OS. For example, a 64 bit machine will be able to run both Vista 64 bits and normal Vista.

But a 32 bits machine can't run a 64 bits OS.

Note- it seems to me that the partitioning tool within the installer is inferior to its previous versions. It still has all the same capabilities but now it takes a lot longer to make partitions because it has to scan and update after every one made (which takes about 25 seconds each time). Why'd they change that?

Because the old partitioner has some problems that were difficult to resolve and dangerous. Some people had their hard disk damaged by it.

So, look it that way, it's slower but safer.

Javier.

[jck]

Re: Help with an external install

I'm not an expert, but I will ask just a question to see if I can help:

1) Do you have any other storage devices connected to your machine through USB?

I read somewhere that sometimes having additional USB storage devices besides your boot drive can be an issue. If you do, unplug them until after you try to load the OS.

If you're getting grub errors, that's at least a sign the drive is returning GRUB to be loaded by the BIOS to boot from the drive.

Good luck.

cheers

jck

[komega]

Re: Help with an external install

I do not have any other STORAGE devices connected via USB (or anything else besides one IDE), but I do have a USB hub. I tried disconnecting all of my USB devices before but the results did not change.

As for GRUB, I also took it as a good sign that GRUB was loading for that very reason.

I'm wondering if GRUB is just looking in the wrong place (perhaps hd0 instead of hd1). If that's the case then I could probably go into GRUB and edit to (with some assistance from this forum of course). The problem (and that part that really puzzles me) is that I don't even get a GRUB menu unless I've loaded SGD on there. So, for the moment I'm stumped and would greatly appreciate any help you can give.

[jck]

Re: Help with an external install

I do not have any other STORAGE devices connected via USB (or anything else besides one IDE), but I do have a USB hub. I tried disconnecting all of my USB devices before but the results did not change.

As for GRUB, I also took it as a good sign that GRUB was loading for that very reason.

I'm wondering if GRUB is just looking in the wrong place (perhaps hd0 instead of hd1). If that's the case then I could probably go into GRUB and edit to (with some assistance from this forum of course). The problem (and that part that really puzzles me) is that I don't even get a GRUB menu unless I've loaded SGD on there. So, for the moment I'm stumped and would greatly appreciate any help you can give.

First of all...before taking my words to heart...1) I'm not a guru, 2) make a copy of your menu.lst before changing it

If you have your BIOS set to boot from USB first...yes...i'd suggest booting from a LiveCD...and then:

1) Break out to Konsole
2) if it didn't auto-mount your USB drive, then do a sudo mount /dev/sd*n /media/sd*n (*=drive letter for your USB boot device ,n=number of the partition on usb boot device that has your / setup)
3) edit your /media/sd*n/boot/grub/menu.lst with whatever editor you prefer
4) if your "root" line for Kubuntu isn't set to use hd0 (maybe hd1?), from what I understand you should change it to use that.

From what I understood, the boot drive automatically is considered hd0...and GRUB will see it that way.

let me know what happens...

cheers

jck

[mitchhobbs]

Re: Help with an external install

Look at:

http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3081543.0

This is a post where jck is trying to do the same thing. I pretty much posted the entire process there.

Hope it helps...

mitch

[komega]

Re: Help with an external install

Sorry that it took a bit to respond. If it weren't for those pesky exams, college would be so much easier.

Anyways, I tried two things suggested in this thread: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3081543.0

I edited my menu.lst using nano (didn't know that existed, always fun to learn new things):

## ## End Default Options ##

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-12-generic
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-12-generic
root=UUID=34ee736e-5b51-4ef0-a892-9a66fe7f91f2 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-12-generic
quiet
savedefault

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-12-generic (recovery mode)
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-12-generic
root=UUID=34ee736e-5b51-4ef0-a892-9a66fe7f91f2 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-12-generic

title Ubuntu, memtest86+
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
quiet

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

That gave me a GRUB error 18 (and no GRUB menu at all)

Using fdisk -l, I found that my external was currently /dev/sdg and since I'm pretty sure (based on size) that the first partition was the root partition and since it was the first one it had to have GRUB on it. Thus, I edited all three root=UUID=... to make them root=/dev/sdg1

Unfortunately, that too gave a GRUB error 18.

I also saved a copy to another flash drive I have so I have the original in case I need it.

Looking at what GRUB error 18 is: "Error 18: Selected cylinder exceeds maximum supported by BIOS" makes me think that I should try making a boot partition that's only about 64MB. I'll try that and get back to ya'all but I was wondering if you had any other ideas on what to do.

Thanks for the help.

[komega]

Re: Help with an external install

I made a /boot partition at the beginning of the external drive and I told GRUB to install to /dev/sdg1 (which is what it was). Unfortunately, that gave me a GRUB error 15.

So, I tried modifying the menu.lst file as I did before. I changed hd(1,0) to hd(0,0) and root=UUID=... to root=/dev/sdg3 (which was the root partition). That too gave me a GRUB error 15.

I, of course, am still unable to access a GRUB menu.

Error 15 seems very broad, any ideas on what to try now? I'll try to tinker with the menu.lst file some more as that seems to be the most likely source of my problems.

[komega]

Re: Help with an external install

Editing menu.lst and device.map haven't done much for me... but I'm not really sure what I'm doing. Anybody have better luck than me trying to get this to work?

Question- I created a boot partition at the beginning of the drive on which I installed GRUB. It's only 64 MB. Should I have not done that and set up the root partition as the first partition and install GRUB there and totally forgo having a boot partition? I've tweaked a few other things but if those ideas don't work then I'll try reinstalling Linux and doing that.

Any suggestions are always welcome.

[komega]

Re: Help with an external install

I formatted my external drive and reinstalled Kubuntu. The first partition is the root (ext3), then the swap (ext3), and the rest (about 15 GB) is shared (so I can use it as a hard drive accessible to Windows) set as a FAT32 partition.

I told GRUB to install to /dev/sdb1 (b is obviously the name fdisk told me Kubuntu is using for my external).

When I tried to boot from that I got GRUB error 2 and no GRUB menu. I found error 2 to mean: "Bad file or directory type - This error is returned if a file requested is not a regular file, but something like a symbolic link, directory, or FIFO."

I changed the menu.lst file so that everything said (hd0,0) instead of hd(1,0). That gave me the same error.

I changed the menu.lst file so that every time it said root=UUID=... I changed it to root=/dev/sdb1. That gave me the same error.

I noticed that I went into fdisk for my external drive I got this message:
"The number of cylinders for this disk is set to 2432.
There is nothing wrong with that, but this is larger than 1024,
and could in certain setups cause problems with:
1) software that runs at boot time (e.g., old versions of LILO)
2) booting and partitioning software from other OSs
(e.g., DOS FDISK, OS/2 FDISK)"

I tried to find a way to change the number cylinders but couldn't find any. I also don't have a lot of confidence that this is the underlying problem.

Anybody else have some advice or find a way to get this to work for them?

[komega]

Re: Help with an external install

Success!

So, I finally got it working. I edited the menu.lst file so that it was hd(0,0) and root=UUID=... was root=/dev/sdb1

That still gave me a GRUB error so, on a whim, I changed my BIOS from having it look first at my USB hard drive then my IDE hard drive, to the opposite of that. Then I went into the boot menu and told it to boot from the USB drive. That brought up the GRUB menu and I was able to log in from there.

So, it works. Thanks for all the advice.

[komega]

Re: Help with an external install

So, Kubuntu is working on my computer and that's wonderful. But now that I'm home from college I would like it to work on my parents' computer too. Unfortunately, their computer is older (about 5 years, so it can still run Kubuntu without a problem) and thus BIOS does not natively support booting from a USB hard drive. Thus, I was wondering what I can do to go about fixing that.

Most of the research I've done is for versions of Kubuntu that are too old to be applicable enough (around version 5.10). Thus, I'm wondering if someone has a method, link, download, etc. that can make it possible for me to boot Kubuntu from my parents' computer.

Here's the architecture:

Windows XP (Home) SP2
Pentium(R) 4 2.66GHz
512 MB RAM
NVidia Geforce4 MX 440

I looked but couldn't find what motherboard they have. I was using Belarc for the first time so maybe I'm just blind.

Anyways, any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[ilanesh1]

Re: Help with an external install

komega, why so complicated when it gets the easy way?
When you want to install to an external usb hdd, never do this from the live cd, I know this and I have my bad experiences with it.
So then i donwloadet the alternate installation cd, booted up and installed to the external usb hdd, all it did automatic, no headache, after finished install rebooted and here i have kubuntu feisty and all works.
its that easy.