Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem (boot problem because of hard drive)

[mitchhobbs]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

jck, yes. When I get to the point during install and I select the advanced options I input /dev/sda just like that without parenthesis.

As far as the groot or root, I don't know. It would be nice so I wouldn't have to change it with every update. I'll have to research that.

Are you installing to the whole usb drive or making partitions to install to? I always install to the whole device and let the installer do what it may. I've done the making of partitions on my desktop with 2 internal HD's. I'm currently triple booting my desktop with Edgy, Feisty and Elive. Anyway, my laptop setup is:

HP pavilion 4308wm, with intel integrated graphics.
1 gb processor and 100 gb HD.

I use 2 different usb drives, both SIMPLETECH products. One is 60 gigs and the other is 100 gigs. I use the 100 gigs as my "stable" version which is Edgy at this point and the 60 I use to test other distros, Feisty, Mepis, Sabayon, etc... The Grub I posted is from the 100 gig drive. Anyway, I'm rambling on and on.

Did you install grub to the internal HD? Are you booting your stock operating system from it or is it booting normally? I keep xp on my laptop because I burn a lot of DVD's and with linux it's kinda coplicated. I like to be able to click a few option and then burn and I haven't found it to be that easy on linux.

I sounds to me like grub is installed to your internal hd and when you try to boot to the usb drive your getting the "no operating system found" error because there is no grub on the usb drive. If it were there you should at least get some kind of grub error.

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

jck, yes. When I get to the point during install and I select the advanced options I input /dev/sda just like that without parenthesis.

Cool. I will do that in a second. I came over to see your response before I did it. Thanks for putting this here before I reloaded Kubuntu

BTW...about Dell BIOS... 2.3.0 for Inspiron 1501...

If you are having trouble with the Kubuntu CD loading, go to the main setup screen in the BIOS...there is a setting called "High Precision Events Timer" that is a Yes/No option...it will keep your Kubuntu 7.04 CD from booting. You have to turn it off. That might have been one issue. I will re-test the boot after this re-load.

As far as the groot or root, I don't know. It would be nice so I wouldn't have to change it with every update. I'll have to research that.

Hope it works for you. Would like to think I could actually help you out too with something.

If it does, then thank God my entire memory hasn't gone yet...haha.

Are you installing to the whole usb drive or making partitions to install to? I always install to the whole device and let the installer do what it may. I've done the making of partitions on my desktop with 2 internal HD's. I'm currently triple booting my desktop with Edgy, Feisty and Elive.

I usually manually partition. If the reboot with manual partitions without the Dell BIOS item on doesn't work, I'll try letting Kubuntu use the whole drive...then repartition later. I do want to load MEPIS on there as well.

In fact, I put a suggestion to Warren at MEPIS that he should relocate where I live...he could help convince my employer move to Linux.

I'd try to convince Kubuntu...but...well...I don't know if Kubuntu wants to move. hehe

Anyway, my laptop setup is:

HP pavilion 4308wm, with intel integrated graphics.
1 gb processor and 100 gb HD.

I use 2 different usb drives, both SIMPLETECH products. One is 60 gigs and the other is 100 gigs. I use the 100 gigs as my "stable" version which is Edgy at this point and the 60 I use to test other distros, Feisty, Mepis, Sabayon, etc... The Grub I posted is from the 100 gig drive. Anyway, I'm rambling on and on.

That's ok. My setup is:

Dell Inspiron 1501 w/1GB ram, 120GB internal drive, TSST CD/RW-DVD/RW
15" screen, wireless-g, 10/100 ethernet, 56k modem, etc etc

I've got the one Elements powered by Western Digital 250GB USB drive. Want Kubuntu and MEPIS on it. If I can get it working, I might buy another and put Fedora and/or openSUSE on it. I really want to work with Linux bad.

In fact, I want to migrate by year's end on every machine that I can.

Did you install grub to the internal HD?

No, I put it on the external USB Drive.

Are you booting your stock operating system from it or is it booting normally?

I am booting the laptop from the internal drive with the Windows bootloader for Windows Vista Home Premium which came on the laptop.

I decided to keep it because I will eventually have to know Vista and do VB.NET 2005 for it for my job.

I keep xp on my laptop because I burn a lot of DVD's and with linux it's kinda coplicated. I like to be able to click a few option and then burn and I haven't found it to be that easy on linux.

Yeah, there's a cool program I use for burning CDs in Windows XP on my gaming box...called CD Burner Pro 3 Freeware...it's simple, and awesome.

I sounds to me like grub is installed to your internal hd and when you try to boot to the usb drive your getting the "no operating system found" error because there is no grub on the usb drive. If it were there you should at least get some kind of grub error.

Well, I am going to go over and type in "/dev/sdb" into the boot loader config after I finish my writing this.

I really appreciate your holding my hand on this. I first messed with Linux back in about 1990 in college (Yggdrasil), and haven't done much since 1992. It has come a long ways and I love it...especially because it's free.

I need to also make a post to Kubuntu and find out how to send a banque cheque to them so that I can donate. I said I would when I got my main machine working fully and it is. I want to perpetuate and reward them for their hard work and contribute.

And besides. $100 to Kubuntu for the OS is far cheaper for the $300 upgrade to Vista!

Thanks again...will have the fdisk here soon if the boot doesn't work after this install.

jck

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Mitch,

Alright...here's how it went.

I tried to do a manual partition. It didn't boot. Same "Operating System not found" message.

So, I tried letting do the whole disk. It wouldn't boot, same message.

I rebooted and went into the live cd and edited the /boot/grub/menu.lst, and I made the root=UUID=.... change to root=/dev/sdb...and I made the root (hd1,0) change to root (hd0,0).

Question:

Now that the USB external hard drive is now seen as primary boot hard drive (hd0), won't the device.map file defining (hd0) /dev/sda make my menu.lst definition of root=/dev/sdb try to boot the wrong drive?

I'm gonna try modifying that again back to root=/dev/sda.

I'm really eager.

I couldn't get the fdisk because there's no shared Windows FAT partition to write the file to from Linux and then send in Vista via IE...so...I'll have to wait til I re-install again and configure my own partitions. But...the basic gist of the fdisk -l output after a whole disk autopartition was:

/dev/sdb1 boot Linux partition sectors 1-?
/dev/sdb2 Extended partition sectors ?-??
/dev/sdb5 Linux Swap within the extended partition

Hope this gives you some inkling.

Let me know what you think. I'll try to get fdisk on here later tonight or tomorrow.

Again...thanks for your help

cheers

jck

[mitchhobbs]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Hey jck, it looks like your usb drive is showing up as sdb and not sda. I would change the install of grub to /dev/sdb and then change the "kernel" line in the grub menu to read root=/dev/sdb1

Here is what my first option in grub looks like as my drive shows up as sda, this is on edgy though:

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.17-11-generic
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17-11-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.17-11-generic
quiet
savedefault
boot

Notice the root (hd0,0) and in the kernel it has root=/dev/sda1

Here it the output of fdisk-l on my system:

Disk /dev/hda: 100.0 GB, 100030242816 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 12161 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 * 1 12135 97474356 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hda2 12136 12161 208845 88 Linux plaintext

Disk /dev/sda: 100.0 GB, 100030242816 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 12161 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 11787 94679046 83 Linux
/dev/sda2 11788 12161 3004155 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 11788 12161 3004123+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris

see how /dev/sda1 is the boot root directory with a *

I also seem to remember that one of the updates to feisty had changed the way other peoples HD's were listed to where hda was now sda and sda was now sdb. You internal drive may be showing up as sda and your external showing up as sdb. The fdisk I show above is on my edgy disk. I don't have feisty up and running on a disk but I do have a copy of the menu.lst that I had saved:

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-9-generic
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-9-generic root=UUID=2d35425d-8429-46be-a31a-b0a3f2e79392 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-9-generic
quiet
savedefault

I don't know what the root=UUID is all about but I do remember that this worked with the usb drive I had it installed on. You might want to leave that section alone and try it as it is installed. Still change it to (hd0.0) though.

Hope this helps....

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Hey jck, it looks like your usb drive is showing up as sdb and not sda. I would change the install of grub to /dev/sdb and then change the "kernel" line in the grub menu to read root=/dev/sdb1

When I set it up, I did it as /dev/sdb...however, I can't remember what I made root to be in menu.lst. I'll make sure that it is set to /dev/sdb1.

Here is what my first option in grub looks like as my drive shows up as sda, this is on edgy though:

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.17-11-generic
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17-11-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.17-11-generic
quiet
savedefault
boot

Notice the root (hd0,0) and in the kernel it has root=/dev/sda1

That's close to what mine looks like as well. I will double-check when I get home from the office.

Here it the output of fdisk-l on my system:

Disk /dev/hda: 100.0 GB, 100030242816 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 12161 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 * 1 12135 97474356 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hda2 12136 12161 208845 88 Linux plaintext

Disk /dev/sda: 100.0 GB, 100030242816 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 12161 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 11787 94679046 83 Linux
/dev/sda2 11788 12161 3004155 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 11788 12161 3004123+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris

see how /dev/sda1 is the boot root directory with a *

I also seem to remember that one of the updates to feisty had changed the way other peoples HD's were listed to where hda was now sda and sda was now sdb. You internal drive may be showing up as sda and your external showing up as sdb.

Yeah, Fiesty shows my internal SATA 150 drive as sda, and my external USB disk as sdb.

The fdisk I show above is on my edgy disk. I don't have feisty up and running on a disk but I do have a copy of the menu.lst that I had saved:

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-9-generic
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-9-generic root=UUID=2d35425d-8429-46be-a31a-b0a3f2e79392 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-9-generic
quiet
savedefault

I don't know what the root=UUID is all about but I do remember that this worked with the usb drive I had it installed on. You might want to leave that section alone and try it as it is installed. Still change it to (hd0.0) though.

Hope this helps....

thanks. I'll double check things this evening. I really hope I can get it up and running this weekend. I'd hate to have to rely on VMWare on Windows.

Will let you know as soon as I get home and make the changes.

Thank you very much once again.

cheers
jck

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Alright, I've come home...and I'm re-installing the Kubuntu 7.04 x86_64 Desktop install.

Doing the partitioning, I did:

1) Entire disk of the USB External drive
2) grub told to load to /dev/sdb

It is installing now...partitions made by the installer are:

partition #1 of SCSI5 (0,0,0) (sdb) as ext3
partition #5 of SCSI5 (0,0,0) (sdb) as swap

After I finished the install, I did a restart of the system with the CD removed to see what would happen.

"Operating System not found"

So, I tried loading the Live x86_64 CD...and...it froze...so...I went into the BIOS to check my settings...they had al remained the same.

So, I put in the i386 Live CD in to boot into desktop to edit files. It succeed in booting to the desktop.

So, I first go into /media/disk/boot/grub/device.map and it is as such:

(hd0) /dev/sda
(hd1) /dev/sdb

Now, I go to /media/disk/boot/grub/menu.lst and my Kubuntu boot is such at the end of menu.lst (typing this into here, since I have no FAT partition):


title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-12-generic
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-12-generic root=UUID=... ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-12-generic
quiet
savedefault

I made the UUID= followed by ... to save typing.

So, I will change the hd1,0 to hd0,0 and leave the UUIDs alone.

Then I check fdisk -l, and it has this:

Disk /dev/sdb: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 633 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb1 * 1 30074 241569373+ 83 Linux
/dev/sdb2 30075 30401 2626627+ 5 Extended
/dev/sdb5 30075 30401 2626596 82 Linux swap/Solaris


So...I know it's sdb...partition 1 is set to boot...my menu.lst is set to use (hd0,0) which is what the external should be set to when I use it as the boot drive in the BIOS.

So...I check GRUB:

grub> find /boot/grub/stage1
(hd0,0)

So, it should be set properly...I think...since the external should become hd0 on BIOS boot set to USB...and...partition 0 should be sdb1...

So...I reboot.

"Operating System not found"

So, my idea is this: device.map says my hd0 = /dev/sda. But if that gets processed before menu.lst...then...I would be looking at /dev/sda for a boot. So, I go back into device.map...and modify it to this:

(hd0) /dev/sdb
(hd1) /dev/sda

This way, my menu.lst and device.map drive designations will correlate to my partition stuff.

So I reboot...and...

"Operating System not found"

So...I'm at a loss...the only thing I can think that might make a difference is if I were to somehow setup my mkinitfs to use USB or something as a pre-load. But, I don't know how to do it.

Alright...I hope that helps see what I have done on an install.

Please let me know any other ideas you might have to try to get this to boot.

Thanks again.

cheers

jck

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

mitchhobbs and UnicornRider:

I have a solution:

evidently, there is a BIOS/USB signalling issue.

If the hard drive is powered up and initialized prior to the laptop doing its boot process, the USB drive will not respond to the laptop's boot signal.

If I power the USB drive on and then immediately also power on the laptop, it seems to go right into GRUB.

Evidently, this is either a problem exclusive to WD Elements USB drives and Dell BIOSes being paired...or...WD/Elements has an issue...or...Dell's BIOS has an issue.

Nonetheless, I will be testing to see if the drive will boot from my Toshiba A35 Satellite laptop as it should. If so, then I will let Dell know it's their BIOS that is the problem.

If not, I will tell WD that it doesn't work with 2 laptops I own.

Thanks to both of you again. I very much appreciate both of you assisting me in this.

Mitch:

Could you please let me know the model of USB drive you use in the Simpletech brand? If this drive won't work on both laptops, I will be purchasing something similar to yours to work with on my Dell.

If either or both companies help to resolve the issue, I will let everyone know.

If one or neither do anything to resolve the issue, then I will let you know too so that you don't spend $90 on a drive that won't boot properly, or $100s on a laptop that won't...with our beloved Linux.

Thanks so much again to you both for your help.

cheers

jck

[mitchhobbs]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Glad to help jck, I think you are using a "big" external usb drive with it's own power source. I'm using small pocket sized drives that are solely powered by the usb port. I don't have the model numbers handy but I bought them at Circuit City. Try Circuit city's website or www.simpletech.com. Let us know how it turns out.


Mitch

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Mitch,

Yes, the Elements powered by WD drive is a 250GB drive with its own power source.

I bought it due to the amount of space. Guess I should have done more research into the subject of what drives work best.

That will teach me to trust the brand name of a drive to work perfect.

Again, thanks. I will let you know when/if I hear something from Western Digital and/or Dell.

cheers

jck

P.S.- the "groot" thing...I found a quote for you from http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/p15.htm#groot:

'groot' is short for 'grub root device'. That will be the partition you want your new Linux kernel to be installed in when you get a new one during an update. Your /boot partition is the partition you should specify here.
If you have a standard installation, with a /boot directory in your root partition, (/ ), then the number you will see here will be the same as the number you will see for kopt.
If you have a special installation with a separate /boot partition, the number you should see here will be the the partition number of your /boot partition.

Hope that helps.

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

A sub-note:

I ordered a 2.5" Aluratek External USB 120GB stand-alone, port-powered hard drive this morning.

It supposedly has a Western Digital drive in it, and I want to see if it's a power control issue with the BIOS or something.

Hopefully it will get here Friday evening. I put rush shipping on it from Newegg.com so it will leave their warehouse (I think most drives come out of their Edison NJ location) tonight. Sometimes I have gotten FedEx Express Saver in 1 day from there.

Cross your fingers for me. Will try to put notes on here this weekend if I get it Friday. Want to keep anyone else getting a Dell laptop from making the same mistake in the Elements drive that I did.

Thanks again. More to come ASAP.

cheers

jck

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

OK...final update about the Elements/Western Digital USB drive:

PLEASE READ THIS IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AN EXTERNAL USB DRIVE TO USE AS A BOOT DRIVE

According to the Western Digital technical support representative:

"Elements powered by WD" USB external 3.5" hard drives DO NOT SUPPORT BOOTING AND WESTERN DIGITAL TECH SUPPORT WILL NOT ASSIST YOU WITH GETTING THEM TO BOOT.

I tried to explain to them it was not an OS or software issue...that it was an issue with BIOS signalling and the drive reaching a state that it would not acknowledge the boot signal from my laptop, and send the data in its boot partition.

So...my warning:

If you want to dual boot with Linux from an external USB drive...do not get an Elements powered by WD external USB hard drive, unless you want to have to power the drive off and back on each time you reboot.

Anyways...it's a Western Digital issue...and...the rep said he'd put my opinion and suggestion in the notes...but, couldn't guarantee anyone would do anything with them.

I'll let you all know how the Aluratek drive works if I get it Friday.

Thanks again to all of you who helped me.

Cheers

jck

[mitchhobbs]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem (boot problem because of hard drive)

Thanks jck, Do let us know if it works.

Mitch

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem (boot problem because of hard dri

Alright...update again:

Kubuntu 7.04 32 bit desktop w/WPA-PSK wireless...is running

ndiswrapper and the Dell drivers I got didn't like 64 bit. I'll mess with it when the new drive gets here next week.

Thanks again to everyone. I'm going to watch football (soccer) and have a drink...then will be back to mess around the new and improved, Kubuntu-fied laptop!

cheers

jck

[jck]

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem (boot problem because of hard drive)

just another update:

Laptop is up, running, and external drive now has *3* distros on it...Mepis64, OpenSuse 10.2, and Kubuntu 7.04!

My next project is to get the high-end video driver working on my main PC so I can subscribe to Transgaming Cedega and work on getting Shadowbane and Quake to run on Kubuntu

Thanks again all...it is very much appreciated.