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**penguin.ch** · Apr 06, 2007, 07:52 AM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Originally posted by jck

GRUB Error 21

Right from the boot loader's stack (aka GRUB manual):

"This error is returned if the device part of a device or full file name refers to a disk or BIOS device that is not present or not recognized by the BIOS in the system."

Which is why I would rather suspect your laptop's BIOS of being unable to boot from an USB disk (by default that is).

**mitchhobbs** · Apr 06, 2007, 09:59 AM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Hi jck,

I've installed to a few USB drives and they can be tricky. I opted to have the grub installed directly to the USB drive and not to the MBR of my internal drive. I didn't want to mess with that. While installing, on the last step down at the bottom (the last page in the install setup process before it actually installs) there is an "advanced" button. Click that and you can decide where grub is to be installed. In order to boot from the drive I have to twik my bios setting. On my laptop, HP pavilion dv4308wm, I hit f10 during bootup. move over to advanced and then select harddrive. I find my usb listed there, move it up in the order. Hit f10 to save the settings and then reboot. Then it reboots to the usb drive. Now that you have grub installed to the MBR of the internal drive you might have problems. I've used "supergrub" in the past as I have messed up the MBR of my laptop, windoz xp, and it has restored it. Primarily the reason I don't mess with the mbr anymore. As far as loading it the the USB drive and moving it between machines, I've tried that with my desktop and it freezes. I installed it while connected to the laptop and I think that once installed it is set for my laptops hardware and when I hook it up to the desktop I think it has a hardware conflict. (different monitor, graphic card, etc...) I would try to restore the MBR of the internal HD and reinstall grub to the usb drive.

**jck** · Apr 06, 2007, 01:49 PM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

I appreciate the responses.

Which is why I would rather suspect your laptop's BIOS of being unable to boot from an USB disk (by default that is).

UnicornRider:

The Dell Inspiron 1501 2.1.0 BIOS, under the Boot menu, shows the USB 2.0 drive when I have it plugged into the USB. I would have assumed that would mean it can boot from it, if it has the bootloader in the boot sector of the drive.

Of course, I'm not a BIOS expert so I can't be sure of anything about how they work

Hi jck,

I've installed to a few USB drives and they can be tricky. I opted to have the grub installed directly to the USB drive and not to the MBR of my internal drive. I didn't want to mess with that. While installing, on the last step down at the bottom (the last page in the install setup process before it actually installs) there is an "advanced" button. Click that and you can decide where grub is to be installed. In order to boot from the drive I have to twik my bios setting. On my laptop, HP pavilion dv4308wm, I hit f10 during bootup. move over to advanced and then select harddrive. I find my usb listed there, move it up in the order. Hit f10 to save the settings and then reboot. Then it reboots to the usb drive. Now that you have grub installed to the MBR of the internal drive you might have problems. I've used "supergrub" in the past as I have messed up the MBR of my laptop, windoz xp, and it has restored it. Primarily the reason I don't mess with the mbr anymore. As far as loading it the the USB drive and moving it between machines, I've tried that with my desktop and it freezes. I installed it while connected to the laptop and I think that once installed it is set for my laptops hardware and when I hook it up to the desktop I think it has a hardware conflict. (different monitor, graphic card, etc...) I would try to restore the MBR of the internal HD and reinstall grub to the usb drive.

Mitch:

I've tried loading the drive with GRUB to the MBR. The one thing I can think that I did not try was to change the boot order of the drives in the BIOS.

I will go and re-load Kubuntu 7.04 beta x64 into the USB drive and have GRUB load the MBR on the USB drive, then reboot and go into the BIOS and move the USB drive up in the list.

Hopefully, that will solve my problem and let me use the disk.

Thanks again to both of you. I will let you know whether or not the Dell BIOS allows this.

jck

**penguin.ch** · Apr 06, 2007, 02:25 PM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Please post the "automagic kernel" section of /boot/grub/menu.lst as well as /boot/grub/device.map (as a whole).

**jck** · Apr 06, 2007, 05:38 PM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Originally posted by UnicornRider

Please post the "automagic kernel" section of /boot/grub/menu.lst as well as /boot/grub/device.map (as a whole).

here is the automagic section...
I included the bottom section past the end that has the "chainloader +1" item

and device.map ...

Vista won't keep me logged on this site...I had to email myself the stuff and get on my other laptop...sorry it took so long

### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
## lines between the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST markers will be modified
## by the debian update-grub script except for the default options
below

## DO NOT UNCOMMENT THEM, Just edit them to your needs

## ## Start Default Options ##
## default kernel options
## default kernel options for automagic boot options
## If you want special options for specific kernels use kopt_x_y_z
## where x.y.z is kernel version. Minor versions can be omitted.
## e.g. kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8=root=/dev/hdc1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8_2_686=root=/dev/hdc2 ro
# kopt=root=UUID=34ee736e-5b51-4ef0-a892-9a66fe7f91f2 ro

## default grub root device
## e.g. groot=(hd0,0)
# groot=(hd1,0)

## should update-grub create alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. alternative=true
## alternative=false
# alternative=true

## should update-grub lock alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. lockalternative=true
## lockalternative=false
# lockalternative=false

## additional options to use with the default boot option, but not with
the
## alternatives
## e.g. defoptions=vga=791 resume=/dev/hda5
# defoptions=quiet splash

## should update-grub lock old automagic boot options
## e.g. lockold=false
## lockold=true
# lockold=false

## Xen hypervisor options to use with the default Xen boot option
# xenhopt=

## Xen Linux kernel options to use with the default Xen boot option
# xenkopt=console=tty0

## altoption boot targets option
## multiple altoptions lines are allowed
## e.g. altoptions=(extra menu suffix) extra boot options
## altoptions=(recovery) single
# altoptions=(recovery mode) single

## controls how many kernels should be put into the menu.lst
## only counts the first occurence of a kernel, not the
## alternative kernel options
## e.g. howmany=all
## howmany=7
# howmany=all

## should update-grub create memtest86 boot option
## e.g. memtest86=true
## memtest86=false
# memtest86=true

## should update-grub adjust the value of the default booted system
## can be true or false
# updatedefaultentry=false

## ## End Default Options ##

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-12-generic
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-12-generic
root=UUID=34ee736e-5b51-4ef0-a892-9a66fe7f91f2 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-12-generic
quiet
savedefault

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-12-generic (recovery mode)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-12-generic
root=UUID=34ee736e-5b51-4ef0-a892-9a66fe7f91f2 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-12-generic

title Ubuntu, memtest86+
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
quiet

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the
Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a
non-linux OS
# on /dev/sda3
title Windows Vista/Longhorn (loader)
root (hd0,2)
savedefault
chainloader +1

(hd0) /dev/sda
(hd1) /dev/sdb

**penguin.ch** · Apr 07, 2007, 12:12 AM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Assuming that /dev/sdb1 is hosting the Linux root partition, I'd say that your setup looks good - except for this "UUID" crap which I'd eliminate as a potential source of trouble.

In other words: you may replace all three occurences of root=UUID=[blurb] by root=/dev/sdb1 - and give it another try ... but please backup the menu.lst prior to any edition - just in case I'm wrong.

**jck** · Apr 07, 2007, 09:25 AM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Originally posted by UnicornRider

Assuming that /dev/sdb1 is hosting the Linux root partition, I'd say that your setup looks good - except for this "UUID" crap which I'd eliminate as a potential source of trouble.

In other words: you may replace all three occurences of root=UUID=[blurb] by root=/dev/sdb1 - and give it another try ... but please backup the menu.lst prior to any edition - just in case I'm wrong.

UnicornRider:

I tried as you suggested and it was unsuccessful.

I even tried removing the fixed disk from the laptop and re-installed Kubuntu 7.04 beta to the USB drive and configured the /boot/grub/menu.lst file accordingly and it would not boot.

In all cases when it goes to boot from the external USB drive, it sits with a blinking cursor for some seconds...then, it will say "Operating System Not Found".

I think perhaps it is a BIOS issue with Phoenix/Award and Dell, as the Boot menu shows it as a recognizable boot device but will not properly boot from it.

I have even tried installing the latest BIOS update from Dell, and it did nothing more than re-classify the external USB as "USB Storage Device" (BIOS 2.3.0) rather than "HDD Device" (BIOS 2.1.0 that came installed on the laptop from Dell).

I will fall back to Kubuntu 6.10 64bit...and if that fails, then try 32bit...hoping there is possibly an issue with the 7.04 Beta for some reason...and see if that helps.

If not, I am going to speak with Dell Technical Support about this issue, and see if there is a way to get-around it...or...if they know of a BIOS issue and that there is a fix in the works.

If I get no satisfaction from Dell and Kubuntu 6.10 does not work, I am going to pursue getting a 2nd tray and 2nd hard disk and load Kubuntu onto the 2nd disk and just have to swap drives.

I sincerely appreciate all your help. I will update this thread with the results from a Kubuntu 6.10 attempt so that you are aware of anything I find.

Thank you very much again. Cheers.

jck

**jck** · Apr 07, 2007, 12:25 PM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

An update:

I didn't have Kubuntu 6.10 32 bit desktop burned, so I took a copy of the Ubuntu 6.10 32bit desktop and used it.

Unfortunately, it had the same results.

I am going to make a post to the Dell Forums and see if someone at Dell will tell me if it is possible, and/or if Dell is working with the BIOS maker to resolve any issue with booting from external USB hard disk drives.

I will let everyone know what I find.

Thanks very much again. More updates to come soon.

jck

**jck** · Apr 07, 2007, 02:18 PM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Another update:

I went to Western Digital's support site to dig, and I (unfortunately) found this FAQ item:

Question
Can I boot my computer system using an external (FireWire, USB, Combo) hard drive?
Answer
While it may be possible to boot your computer to an external hard drive, Western Digital does not provide technical support for booting your computer using an external hard drive. If you intend to make a copy of your boot drive, or install your operating system, please use a second internal drive (EIDE or Serial ATA), rather than an external drive

No place for a 2nd internal drive in my laptop.

Will wait to see if anyone at Dell knows if there is going to be a BIOS upgrade to make things happen right.

More updates to come as I have more information.

jck

**jck** · Apr 15, 2007, 12:56 PM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Well, Dell was not a lot of help. They suggested downloading a boot CD with fdisk on it and changing the boot device.

I tried doing several things with Kubuntu...none of which worked.

I have seen several people post articles about getting USB HDs to work, but I can't seem to get it to function and I have developed a headache today because I've been pounding away and going through countless forums trying to find the definitive procedure to step through an install on an external USB drive.

For some reason whenever it tries to load from the USB external HD, it just stops...and eventually says "Operating System not found". I can't even get grub to error for me.

I will do a fresh install of my Kubuntu 7.04 64-bit Desktop this week, and then post my "fdisk -l" and "mount" and see if you can give me any pointers from there.

I might have to do some mumbo jumbo with the mkinitrd or something to get the USB to initialize right...that might be the problem, but I am not familiar whatsoever with the system device initialization part of Linux and will need some help if anyone is able.

Thanks again for all your help, UnicornRider. I will get more info on here as I have time.

cheers

jck

**mitchhobbs** · Apr 15, 2007, 08:39 PM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Sorry jck, I've been away for awhile. When I install to a usb device I also have to "edit" the grub menu. I'll go step by step as I have done this with a number of linux distos, MEPIS, KUBUNTU, SABAYON, ELIVE, all with success. I always come back to Kubuntu....

1. During install, I install to the USB device which in my case has always been listed as sda.
2. Direct grub to be installed to the usb device, different with each distro just have to find the option during install.
3. after successful install, reboot. This is where it gets tricky.
4. Like i previously posted you have to change your bios settings. In my case I hit f10 during bootup to get into the settings screen. I move over to advanced, then to hard drive. I find that my usb device is listed there. I highlight it, hit f6 to move it up in the order, then hit f10 to save the changes and reboot. Now sometimes my usb device doesn't show up. In that case I just hit f10 to save and reboot and go though the steps again and it is usually there by then.
5. Now, after a fresh install and reboot with correct bios settings I usually get an error message. It's usually a "grub error 17" message with a blinking cursor. I then hit enter which takes me to a screen which displays the grub entrys. I hit "e" to edit. As I see from you grub list you posted it has your root as: root=hd1,0. This has to be changed to hd0,0. I know, hd0,0 is the main hard drive. Not in this case. The usb drive is the main hard drive. It's all in how grub is interpreting the setup. (my laptop harddrive contains xp and it shows up on the grub as hd0,0 but when I try and boot from it I get error messages, which doesn't bother me because I just have to disconnect the usb drive and my laptop boots normally.) After making the change from hd1,0 to hd0,0 I hit "b" for boot. It usually boots successfully then.
6. Once successfully booted, first thing to do is open the konsole and using a text editor, open the /boot/grub/menu.lst file and change the hd1,0 to hd0,0 to make it permanent.
7. Thats it. like I said, it has worked for me for a number of distros including Kubuntu 7.04

Here is what my grub looks like from an install of 6.10 to a usb device:

# Splashimage line added by kubuntu-grub-splashimages package
splashimage=(hd0,0)/boot/grub/splashimages/KUBUNTU_splashscreen_blue_neon_logo_03.xpm.gz

# menu.lst - See: grub(8), info grub, update-grub(8)
# grub-install(8), grub-floppy(8),
# grub-md5-crypt, /usr/share/doc/grub
# and /usr/share/doc/grub-doc/.

## default num
# Set the default entry to the entry number NUM. Numbering starts from 0, and
# the entry number 0 is the default if the command is not used.
#
# You can specify 'saved' instead of a number. In this case, the default entry
# is the entry saved with the command 'savedefault'.
# WARNING: If you are using dmraid do not change this entry to 'saved' or your
# array will desync and will not let you boot your system.
default 0

## timeout sec
# Set a timeout, in SEC seconds, before automatically booting the default entry
# (normally the first entry defined).
timeout 10

## hiddenmenu
# Hides the menu by default (press ESC to see the menu)
#hiddenmenu

# Pretty colours
#color cyan/blue white/blue

## password ['--md5'] passwd
# If used in the first section of a menu file, disable all interactive editing
# control (menu entry editor and command-line) and entries protected by the
# command 'lock'
# e.g. password topsecret
# password --md5 $1$gLhU0/$aW78kHK1QfV3P2b2znUoe/
# password topsecret

#
# examples
#
# title Windows 95/98/NT/2000
# root (hd0,0)
# makeactive
# chainloader +1
#
# title Linux
# root (hd0,1)
# kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 ro
#

#
# Put static boot stanzas before and/or after AUTOMAGIC KERNEL LIST

### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
## lines between the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST markers will be modified
## by the debian update-grub script except for the default options below

## DO NOT UNCOMMENT THEM, Just edit them to your needs

## ## Start Default Options ##
## default kernel options
## default kernel options for automagic boot options
## If you want special options for specific kernels use kopt_x_y_z
## where x.y.z is kernel version. Minor versions can be omitted.
## e.g. kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8=root=/dev/hdc1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8_2_686=root=/dev/hdc2 ro
# kopt=root=UUID=f4370b90-f787-4f32-805e-655894aed8ad ro
# kopt_2_6=root=/dev/sda1 ro

## default grub root device
## e.g. groot=(hd0,0)
# groot=(hd1,0)

## should update-grub create alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. alternative=true
## alternative=false
# alternative=true

## should update-grub lock alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. lockalternative=true
## lockalternative=false
# lockalternative=false

## additional options to use with the default boot option, but not with the
## alternatives
## e.g. defoptions=vga=791 resume=/dev/hda5
# defoptions=quiet splash

## should update-grub lock old automagic boot options
## e.g. lockold=false
## lockold=true
# lockold=false

## altoption boot targets option
## multiple altoptions lines are allowed
## e.g. altoptions=(extra menu suffix) extra boot options
## altoptions=(recovery) single
# altoptions=(recovery mode) single

## controls how many kernels should be put into the menu.lst
## only counts the first occurence of a kernel, not the
## alternative kernel options
## e.g. howmany=all
## howmany=7
# howmany=all

## should update-grub create memtest86 boot option
## e.g. memtest86=true
## memtest86=false
# memtest86=true

## should update-grub adjust the value of the default booted system
## can be true or false
# updatedefaultentry=false

## ## End Default Options ##

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.17-11-generic
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17-11-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.17-11-generic
quiet
savedefault
boot

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.17-11-generic (recovery mode)
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17-11-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.17-11-generic
boot

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.17-10-generic
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17-10-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.17-10-generic
quiet
savedefault
boot

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.17-10-generic (recovery mode)
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17-10-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.17-10-generic
boot

title Ubuntu, memtest86+
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
quiet
boot

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/hda1
title Windows Vista/Longhorn (loader)
root (hd0,0)
savedefault
chainloader +1

Notice the hd0,0 for the root=
BTW, I have to change that with each new kernel upgrade because it sets it back to hd1,0

Now I see your getting a "no operating system found" message. I don't know what that is about, I've gotten that before but is usually meant that grub wasn't installed to the usb devise.

**jck** · Apr 16, 2007, 09:12 AM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Mitch,

Thanks again for your reply. I hope your time away was good.

When I install Kubuntu, I generally install this way:

1) Boot from Live CD, let desktop load and possibly detect USB device partitions, etc

2) Click Install icon

3) Click through default time and language settings

4) Click to Manually partition

5) Setup a root partition at the beginning of the drive(sdx1), then a swap (sdx2), then a FAT32 after that (sdx3) (where x = a or b, depending on if I have the internal drive in there...usually sdb cause I usually have the internal drive in the slot)

6) Set boot loader install to hdx (x= 0 or 1, if internal drive is or is not present) so that it puts grub to the external USB drive

7) reboot

My BIOS in the Dell Inspiron 1501 is always set to USB drive as first disk. I pretty much leave it there in an attempt to see something happen in case something works.

One thing I have noticed is that when I do a fdisk -l, I see that sda (the internal drive) and sdb (the USB drive) both have a partition set to "Boot". I don't know if that could be an issue with the BIOS or something.

I have tried setting the root in GRUB before, but for some reason (like right now) if I try to go from (hd 1,4) to (hd0,4), it tells me it can't find that partition. I think this is because the internal drive being present on the internal SATA controller is seen as first device of choice for recognition by the BIOS when it reports to GRUB about disks that exist on the system.

Maybe I need to take the internal disk out every time I work with installing Kubuntu on the USB drive so that my internal config will work accordingly when it tries to boot from USB?

Anyways, I will try to get my fdisk and mount and my device.map and my menu.lst on here so you guys can take a look and tell me where I'm messing up.

If u guys know how to download and use one of the tools to resolve this faster (supergrub, etc), I'd be willing to try that.

Thanks so much again. Be back with more info ASAP.

cheers

jck

**mitchhobbs** · Apr 16, 2007, 09:36 AM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Hey jck, forgot to mention that when I have grub installed to the usb drive I input:

/dev/sda

instead of sda, that's the way it recongnized my particular setup. My internal drive is hda and the usb is sda.

Yes, please post fdisk -l

mitch

**jck** · Apr 16, 2007, 11:10 AM

Re: Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem

Mitch,

When you say that you put in /dev/sda to the grub installer...you mean, you replace the "(hd0)" that is default with "/dev/sda"? Do you put parentheses around it?

Also...about root=hd0,0

I read somewhere...about changing "root" to "groot" so that on kernel upgrades it would maintain. Don't know how valid it is, but I thought I'd mention it.

I will get fdisk to here ASAP as soon as I'm home and settled in.

Thanks so much again.

cheers

jck

Announcement

Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem (boot problem because of hard drive)

Kubuntu 7.04 beta/GRUB 1.5 install problem (boot problem because of hard drive)

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