Thunderbird NTFS partition access

[zaflaucich]

Hi all,
I have searched the forum without finding any help.
I have installed the ntfs-3g to have RW support for the ntfs partitions of the pc and it works (I can write, modify, delete files and folder from terminal and from programs)
This is not true for Thunderbird (1.5.0.5)
The mail archive is in the ntfs partition, and I can read all my saved emails.
When I try to get new mails or move any mail within the program, I get a writing error message).

Is there any help out there?
Thanks
Max

[randcoop]

Re: Thunderbird NTFS partition access

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to do. But if you are trying to use your Windows partition as the location for your Linux Thunderbird's email, then you might want to pointing the Linux Thunderbird to the Windows mount. So in Thunderbird, the server setting shows which profile you're using. Point that to the Windows mount and it might just work the way you want it to.

[zaflaucich]

Re: Thunderbird NTFS partition access

Yes, I need to use the win partition as mail archive for both win and linux version of thunderbird.
The problem is not in the settings of linux thunderbird program: I have tried to put the mail archive in a vfat partition and using that i don't have any problem.
It's thunderbird that doesn't work on a NTFS partition mounted in RW and I can't understand why.

[zaflaucich]

Re: Thunderbird NTFS partition access (update)

Update:
It seems that using ntfs-3g driver you can't overwrite a file previously written with windoz.
I have tried, in a console, to copy a file over an existing one and I got the error "operation not permitted"
I have tried to create a file from linux in the same dir, and I can overwrite it.
Maybe this can help somebody.

[The Liquidator]

Re: Thunderbird NTFS partition access

When I got my current PC (with XP on it) I was able (using Mandriva) to create a FAT 32 partition at the same time as installing the OS. That way all shared data (my docs, quicken (which I run under Wine) is accessible and writeable by both. So far as mail is concerned, I have my mail folder within my docs for ease of backup and location.

Is this doable:

1. By Kubuntu and
2. Once the OS is installed?

[tiger99]

Re: Thunderbird NTFS partition access

Yes, just about any modern Linux distro will allow you to make a FAT partition, but it is probably best to just use a partitioning tool like gparted to free up some space, and then make the partition from within Windoze.

The FAT (FAT12, FAT16, FAT32, VFAT or whatever Windoze makes it) will be fully accessible for read and write from Linux or "any" other OS that will run on a PC (someone will prove me wrong with an obscure one...) with no problems at all. You may need to arrange for it to be mounted first (try "man mount" in a shell to find out how). This type of configuration has been supported since almost the beginning of Linux.

The original question was about NTFS, and I am far from convinced that safe, non-destructive read, write, resize delete etc of NTFS partitions is available. Proceed with caution, and back up all vital data first!

Using FAT you unfortunately get only the minimal set of file permission bits, for readonly or archive if I remember correctly. There is no concept of file ownership, group and user permissions, ACLs or any other civilised form of protection, so using FAT on a machine exposed to the internet, or to other local users (family members, for example) presents considerable risk of data loss, which of course, as well as having an existing NTFS partition, is why many people want to use NTFS. I am one of these people, but it simply is not satisfactory yet, and if you want to know why, M$ are entirely to blame for not publishing, or probably not even having for their own internal use, proper file system specifications. Of course they also keep changing it, with the intention of breaking Linux compatability. Maybe once the EU courts have hammered them severely over the network protocols (same basic problem) they will finally do the right thing.

Incidentally, M$ are actually very backward in many ways (but you knew that or you would not be using Kubuntu...). Windoze is the only modern OS that has no capability whatsoever of handling "foreign" file systems, whereas Linux supports, sometimes with a kernel compile, Acorn, MAC (both varieties), Amiga, Solaris, SCO Unix (ugh!), FAT, OS/2, AIX......... But I only wrote that so you will know where to address your complaints about incompatability. Everyone else plays together nicely, but for one..... By all means ask for help and assistance here or on any Linux support forum, but all complaints to Bill Gates, 1 Microsoft Way, Redmond please!

BTW, FAT, being the lowest common denominator of just about every OS, is used for memory cards in digital cameras and such like, so you will likely be using it at some stage anyway, whether on a hard drive or elsewhere. But that is another issue altogether.

[The Liquidator]

Re: Thunderbird NTFS partition access

Interesting post. Yes, I agree it is unsatisfactory that we have to put up with a primitive file system if we (say) dual boot. It was necessary for me to set up a FAT 32 partition when I installed Mandriva on my new machine with (ugh!) XP which, incidentally I boot up about once a week primarily to install updates. One of the reasons was that I could access my mail from each. I am reluctant to wipe it though as of course some of the more obscure bits of hardware (and the bain of my life multimedia) does not work too well in kubuntu. Maybe when edgy leaves the nest I can bite the bullet.

Back to topic, however, the poster of the original question will I think find my solution relatively simple and elegant. It will just work. It also for example will provide a safe backup location for any key files if any kubuntu surgery is needed. If one were to password protect any key files on the FAT 32 partition like I do and have a decent firewall like Guarddog I would be very interested to know how risky it would be.

[randcoop]

Re: Thunderbird NTFS partition access

Since this has become something of general discussion, I just want to provide a strong counterbalance to tiger99's contention that NTFS cannot be dealt with safely in Linux. The ntfs-3g software represents a major breakthrough. The single problem raised in this thread is that you can't overwrite a file that was originally written in Windows. I'd expect that single problem to be solved as ntfs-3g develops, but it shouldn't diminish the success of the program.

Using ntfs-3g and fuse, Linux users can use the ntfs partition to store backup, to share files with their Windows OS, to download files necessary to the Windows OS, to read and use files that were created by the Windows OS software, and so on.

I am unaware of any problems in doing this and have encountered none myself nor among the users whose dual boot machines I'm working with.

If someone has encountered problems (deleted files, crashed hard drives, etc, etc,), please post those examples here. It would put ntfs-3g in a different light, I think.

The caution to back up all data applies to virtually any use of a hard drive. But my point would only be that as far as I can tell, extraordinary concerns about ntfs-3g are not warranted.