Why go the WIndows way and take the users for stupid?

[spheniscus]

I've just tried the AMD64 version of the new Ubuntu - too soon to say anything about the OS but soon enough to say it's developpers behave just as those in Redmond:

When you install, you get *no* option to change the Grub settings. So it will install on the master boot record of your first disk and crush anything you had there. Then, it possibly is able to detect an existing Windows installation but if you are running another Linux... well, you loose it.

I had put hopes in the Kubuntu development, apparently I was wrong

Thierry

[Nirvana]

Re: Why go the WIndows way and take the users for stupid?

Conrgrats, you found an installer bug. You can either use the alternate install cd, or and older live cd (which doesn't have an install option btw), or you can wait for the point release which I hear is in August.

Also, be weary that ubiquity, the installer on the live cd has never been used in ubuntu before, so expect v1.0 to not always be the best, wait till the next version when this bug will be fixed

more info on the point release: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperPointReleaseProcess

[aysiu]

Re: Why go the WIndows way and take the users for stupid?

The Desktop CD doesn't assume the users are stupid, but it doesn't want to present too many options that may confuse the new user.

If you know what you're doing, use the Alternate CD.

[Fenyx]

Re: Why go the WIndows way and take the users for stupid?

It's not a bug, actually. It's a limitation that was initially intentionally imposed on the Ubiquity installer.

The Desktop CD does make some presumptions:
a. You are a new user and are trying out Ubuntu or Linux for the first time, thus, having too many options, at least more than a new user could handle, will be counter productive; or

b. You are an experienced/casual/regular Linux user who wants to see what Ubuntu has or use the CD as a sort of rescue CD, in which case you don't need to install it, and would therefore have no issues about GRUB. If you do decide to install it, then you probably know enough to get around that limitation (transfer GRUB some other place later) or at least know enough to be able to ask the right questions.

EDIT: I forgot to add something (I've been forgetting a lot of stuff lately )

This is actually the first release of Ubuntu that had a Desktop CD, which is a Live CD + Ubiquity Installer. So it's a bit too early, I think, to say anything definitive about it. I'm presuming that, like every other FOSS project, it will evolve little by little.

[spheniscus]

Re: Why go the WIndows way and take the users for stupid?

I understand all your answers. I still think it should (at least) be clearly indicated that the installer will trash your bootloader: once you (maybe) understand it will (because you don't get another choice) it's a little late to go back to the alternate install...

Oh, and there is the fact that it won't identify my other Linux installations... DO you really think that all the people testing (K)Ubuntu are WIndows users?

I'll take a look at the latest Mepis - as far as I understand it's now based on Ubuntu.

Thierry

[Fenyx]

Re: Why go the WIndows way and take the users for stupid?

Well, if you mean by "clearly stated" that it should say "The Desktop CD will automatically overwrite your MBR", then yes, it's not clearly stated. But the download mirrors do give a hint, but still indirectly. It says about the Alternate Install CD

he alternate install CD allows you to perform certain specialist installations of Kubuntu. It provides for the following situations:

* setting up automated deployments;
* upgrading from older installations without network access;
* LVM and/or RAID partitioning;
* installing GRUB to a location other than the Master Boot Record;
* installs on systems with less than about 192MB of RAM.

Which would imply that the Desktop CD doesn't have those features.

But yeah, it needs to be a bit clearer.

And yes, SimplyMEPIS 6 will now be Ubuntu-based.