Inkscape 1.0 rc1, Snap/Appimage fail to install. How can I get 1.0?

[ianp5a]

Discover has Inkscape 0.92, but I specifically need Inkscape 1.0 for testing and feedback.
Inkscape.com has a 1.0 Appimage. And Snapcraft.io has a 1.0 snap.

The Snapcraft store has a link open in Discover. Which then only shows the 0.92 snap. It does not have channel options for the "--candidate" snap. This is a Kubuntu/Discover deficit according to Popey of snapcraft/canonical

The alternative is the Appimage, which although the program starts from the downloaded file, does not have a launcher Icon nor does it appear in the "Open-With" context menu item in Dolphin. Is there a way to create these integrations?

I'm looking for any way that Inkscape designers can easily install, test and give feedback on Linux for the beta/RC version, in a similar way to using their .exe download for Windows. Any user-level solution would be appreciated. I'd be happy to create some feature request too if needed, to help all other inkscape designers on KDE.

[jlittle]

... Inkscape ...
The alternative is the Appimage, which although the program starts from the downloaded file, does not have a launcher Icon nor does it appear in the "Open-With" context menu item in Dolphin. Is there a way to create these integrations?

Surely.

For a launcher icon, one way is to drag the Appimage from dolphin to a panel. Then right-click it, click the default icon, and change it to an Inkscape one. Another is to right-click the K menu, click Edit Applications, double-click Graphics (say), right-click in the list, new item, give it a name, click the file dialogue icon beside the command box, and find the appimage and select it. Change the icon, click save.

The open with context menu can be set up using system settings, applications, file associations. That could get tedious if there's lots of file types you want to edit with Inkscape; I can think of various kludges around that, like install the repository inkscape, to get all the file type stuff, then symlink the inkscape executable to the Appimage...

[ianp5a]

Surely.

For a launcher icon, one way is to drag the Appimage from dolphin to a panel. Then right-click it, click the default icon, and change it to an Inkscape one. Another is to right-click the K menu, click Edit Applications, double-click Graphics (say), right-click in the list, new item, give it a name, click the file dialogue icon beside the command box, and find the appimage and select it. Change the icon, click save.

The open with context menu can be set up using system settings, applications, file associations. That could get tedious if there's lots of file types you want to edit with Inkscape; I can think of various kludges around that, like install the repository inkscape, to get all the file type stuff, then symlink the inkscape executable to the Appimage...

Thanks John. I'll try that as a workaround.

But his really means, for the longer term, people should avoid the Appimage or there should be an Appimage installer available in Discover..

[ianp5a]

It seems it's a known Discover bug with Snaps:
Cannot choose snap channels https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=418207

[claydoh]

While the 'Install' link that opens discover won't install the desired version, an alternative is going to the Snap Store, which will give the command to install the desired version




I wonder if installing the separate Snap Store app snap is a useful if redundant option to gain the ability to choose the desired channel?

[vinnywright]

Do we have this on 19.10 ?

vinny@vinny-bonox8:~$ apt search appimage
Sorting... Done
Full Text Search... Done
appimagelauncher/now 2.0.2-travis878~4986e77+bionic amd64 [installed,local]
AppImageLauncher built using CMake

it works well on 18.04 and Neon-testing , it integrates the appimage to the system just like you discribe

VINNY

[ianp5a]

While the 'Install' link that opens discover won't install the desired version, an alternative is going to the Snap Store, which will give the command to install the desired version
[ATTACH=CONFIG]8751[/ATTACH]
I wonder if installing the separate Snap Store app snap is a useful if redundant option to gain the ability to choose the desired channel?

I saw that but my aim is to get an install for normal Inkscape designers, without using the command line or resorting to any hacks or specialised knowledge. The more that can manage, the more beta testers on Linux we have. Most will use Windows at the moment. But if they can feel comfortable on Linux that would benefit us all.

[claydoh]

Well, then as many users won't be running *buntu, they would first have to set up and install Snap support on their to get started, then install the Snap Store app anyway. So why not just have them install this app if they are on Kubuntu?

Most Plasma users will not be running Kubuntu or Neon so enabling Snap support is an extra step that need to be considered.



Appimage is probably the easiest route, I don't think the right-click integration is necessarily important for testing purposes. inmsho. Or having to click on the file to run it.

[GreyGeek]

...
But his really means, for the longer term, people should avoid the Appimage or there should be an Appimage installer available in Discover..

There is no reason to avoid AppImages. I am running 12 of them without problems. I like them because they do not require you to modify your system in any way except if you want to add a KMenu entry. After you download an AppImage and save it to the directory in your home account that you want to store it in, you must use the Konsole, or Dolphin, and add the execute permission to the AppImage. Then you can double click (or single as your settings may dictate) to run it. I usually add a menu entry for those I run a lot, otherwise I use Dolphin to browse to my ~/Download/AppImages/ directory and click on the AppImage.

AppImage does not require a daemon running in the background to work. When you are finished with it all you have to do to remove if from your system is to delete it using either Dolphin or the Konsole. No config files laying around, no entries in /opt or what ever, no daemons lurking, etc... Nothing. It's gone. If, for example, you use GIMP's AppImage and make a bunch of drawings you can save them in another location besides inside GIMP's internal directories. But, if you do save an output file inside an AppImage's environment and then later delete the AppImage your files will be gone as well.

[ianp5a]

Well, then as many users won't be running *buntu, they would first have to set up and install Snap support on their to get started, then install the Snap Store app anyway. So why not just have them install this app if they are on Kubuntu?
Most Plasma users will not be running Kubuntu or Neon so enabling Snap support is an extra step that need to be considered.
Appimage is probably the easiest route, I don't think the right-click integration is necessarily important for testing purposes. inmsho. Or having to click on the file to run it.

On Kubuntu the barrier for non IT people appears to be Discover. I'm not concerned about numbers of plasma users. Gnome Software on Ubuntu does let you choose channels for Inkscape. So Ubuntu users can test the betas in an easy way.
So a positive result would be to get that fixed/enabled in Discover to the benefit of Discover users.

Alan Pope sent me this screenshot of Gnome Software on Ubuntu yesterday
It shows the Inkscape Snap with option to select different snap channels.

[ianp5a]

There is no reason to avoid AppImages. I am running 12 of them without problems. I like them because they do not require you to modify your system in any way except if you want to add a KMenu entry. After you download an AppImage and save it to the directory in your home account that you want to store it in, you must use the Konsole, or Dolphin, and add the execute permission to the AppImage. Then you can double click (or single as your settings may dictate) to run it. I usually add a menu entry for those I run a lot, otherwise I use Dolphin to browse to my ~/Download/AppImages/ directory and click on the AppImage.

AppImage does not require a daemon running in the background to work. When you are finished with it all you have to do to remove if from your system is to delete it using either Dolphin or the Konsole. No config files laying around, no entries in /opt or what ever, no daemons lurking, etc... Nothing. It's gone. If, for example, you use GIMP's AppImage and make a bunch of drawings you can save them in another location besides inside GIMP's internal directories. But, if you do save an output file inside an AppImage's environment and then later delete the AppImage your files will be gone as well.

You may like them, but this is not about the effort you put in and the things you have learnt to do, I'm concerned about the many new, or non IT people who don't know the differences between the various systems, and why they need extra steps and special knowledge for no tangible benefit. They don't know what a daemon is or what /opt is. (this is first time I've heard of /opt) Removing an app from Discover is as simple as clicking on Remove. They don't have to search for where the file might be. And might not even remember that appimage is installed. It could have been installed years ago. Or not even remember that something was an appimage at all.

I suggest we aim to improve the process, than have people go elsewhere because they feel things "just work" there.

[Bings]

You don't need to understand what a daemon is or /opt to use an AppImage, he is just explaining to you why AppImage doesn't need an installer and the benefits of that. You download it like a file and open it like a file. When you don't need it any more, you delete it like a file. It's the simplest of all ways to use a program and it's precisely because of the simplicity that it doesn't automatically install a menu entry for you or auto update. The developers of a program can make the appimage ask whether you want to install a menu entry but that's down to them individually.

There is this though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2WA2zdLvVk

https://github.com/TheAssassin/AppImageLauncher

[ianp5a]

You don't need to understand what a daemon is or /opt to use an AppImage, he is just explaining to you why AppImage doesn't need an installer and the benefits of that. You download it like a file and open it like a file. When you don't need it any more, you delete it like a file. It's the simplest of all ways to use a program and it's precisely because of the simplicity that it doesn't automatically install a menu entry for you or auto update. The developers of a program can make the appimage ask whether you want to install a menu entry but that's down to them individually.
There is this though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2WA2zdLvVk
https://github.com/TheAssassin/AppImageLauncher

Thanks. Yes I've been looking at AppinageLauncher. I had even clicked download on that Github page. But all it gave me was some .zip file. The video you posted showed the nice installable .deb files tucked away under Releases tab. Familiar, perhaps, to frequent Github users. As I said above "there should be an Appimage installer available in Discover."

But Appimage is not "the simplest of all ways" from the viewpoint of a non IT user, who will just click Install or Remove in Discover.

[GreyGeek]

Thank you, Bings, for explaining AppImages better than I did.

ianp5a, making a distro idiot proof is impossible because idiots are extremely ingenious. I spent 30 minutes trying to talk a relative through the simple process of logging into his home account after an install, an install I did and then shipped his computer back to him. After he finally logged in I had him turn on Teamview and connected up. Then I proceeded to answer questions he had about finding and running other applications. I watched incredulously as he'd move his mouse arrow to the upper right corner after I told him to move it to the lower left corner. And that was the high point of that experience. It got worse. Later I talked with his wife (my sister) and suggested that he has some form of mental impairment, because I never knew him to be that slow-minded. He was later diagnosed with dementia and no longer uses a computer and a phone only when it is handed to him and all he has to do is talk. He understands his situation, or did, and knows where it leads.

At 79 I have moments of lucidity but spend an increasing amount of time searching for my butt with both hands. (As I write this I can't think of the correct term for the butt muscle and I spent several years in college teaching anatomy and physiology. )

ianp5a, you think you know what a "Remove" button means, but do other people have the same understanding as you do? Might they think it means remove Discover, or remove the entire distro? Possibly or probably. Remember the bell curve. A developer usually aims for the zero sigma point, the user who is smarter than half the people and dumber than the other half. I developed software for 40 years before I retired. It is a LOT easier to develop software for the +1 sigma user than it is for the -1 sigma user.
Here is an old Internet myth, but it says a lot:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/word-imperfect/

One of the reasons why I don't like snaps and flatpack is that they involve a daemon process that runs all the time. AFAIAC, such daemons are useful ONLY when you want to install an app. What is it doing the rest of the time, except for using CPU cycles and RAM? Maybe nothing, maybe something. I noticed that AppImageLauncher also installs a daemon. IF a person doesn't mind a daemon running in the background all the time then the launcher is a good addition. Adding the PPA would be a good option to keep it updated.

AppImageLauncher is supposed to add a KMenu entry, if the user desires, and (I assume) remove that menu entry when the AppImage is removed. Setting the AppImage execution bit and adding a KMenu entry are drop dead easy tasks, akin to learning how to use a knife and fork. So is removing the KMenu entry when you decide to delete the AppImage. So, for me, an AppImage daemon isn't necessary.

[ianp5a]

Thank you, Bings, for explaining AppImages better than I did.

ianp5a, making a distro idiot proof is impossible because idiots are extremely ingenious.

Funny yet sad about your relative. And yes there are many people who have massive difficulties with day to day computer use. It would naturally be quite hard to make things easy for everyone.

But I'd like you to think about another demographic. There are very many computer users out there who are not in IT, yet they are not stupid either. Far from it. Many know their field, and their software inside out. They may not have memorised IT hacks and magic words and terminal commands, but they do know all the hacks in their own discipline. Such as medicine, aviation, engineering, and in the case of Inkscape, design. These are smart, power users, who want to work fast. Waste their time with too many broken user interfaces and they'll go back to Windows.

Avoid making that mistake that many in the IT world make. If you you are not proficient in the common IT tools, then you must be one of the stupid ones. That attitude completely misses a whole set of potential next new Linux users.

Appimages do require extra steps and knowledge of particular method to work and to manage them. Quite problematic for non IT users who are at home using the more familar commands for adding a PPA or installing a .deb like pasting a URL for a PPA. And a .deb installs itself. Updates and removal of those are entirely familiar too as buttons in Discover.

In most cases, it's the developer who chooses the package format. And the user has little choice but to take what is given. Inkscape designers probably don't care which one. As long as it works without a load of hassle.