Before I start - From Mint to Kubuntu

[Don B. Cilly]

Well, the last dual-boot I had with Windows in it was with Win7 - some 10 years ago or so.
It was with Ubuntu 10.04. I then moved to Kubuntu 12.04, 14.04 (which I really loved), and no Windows whatsoever by then) and 16.04, without having to use UEFI.

Then I tried 18.04 and it started bugging me with the UEFI stuff.
Which I solved, but I had no Windows to worry about, only older Kubuntus to dual-boot.

So, your Win7 doesn't use UEFI.
Kubuntu 18+ seems to require it.
I guess the Mint you re-installed was an oldish one which did not require it. Which, if that is the case, is not-all-that-good.

So it seems to me the possible solutions are:
- Find a way to (dual)boot Win7 with UEFI. If you can, just make a little EFI partition and Bob's your uncle.
- Find a way to (dual)boot a recent version of Kubuntu without UEFI. If you can, Bob's your uncle with no further partitioning.

Otherwise...
------------- CILLY MODE ON ---------------------
Get an Arch Linux ISO and install that.
Fun for all the family.
It's like playing a text-mode adventure game from the '80s.
If you manage to get to the installed-system level, any other installation will look like shooting fish in a barrel with an UZI.
------------- CILLY MODE OFF ---------------------

[claydoh]

No, Kubuintui does not require EFI, it can boot to either, ther OP likely has to see about booting the USB in the 'legacy' or 'bios' mode/

We never did ask what model of laptop it was.....

i have in my hand an HP elitebook from my brother, I am replacing a drive on, an older unit (2570p), and it definitely has a hybrid option, though it is set to Legacy. it definitely is running the Kubuntu installer I am using in legacy mode, installing to an external drive as a test.

It will be worth looking at the bios settings for this

I think we forget that Mint KDE is a 16.04 based distro, and if a Mint-specific tool from 2016 was used to create the USB disk, the tool there might not be able to properly create the 'hybrid' installer.

[AnthonyL]

It is an HP Elitebook 8440p notebook. I don't know where the idea of USB has come from - no USB is involved. It originally came with Win7 Pro on a smaller disk, I cloned that onto a larger disk, all fine. I burned a KDE Mint 64bit DVD and installed from that, but my have used GParted first. Booting up then gave me a selection and that has worked fine until recently. I burned a Kubuntu 18.043 LTS DVD the other day and installed from that specifiying the SDA3 partition to reformat and use and despite choosing options that I believe would not change the boot I lost the boot altogether. I've used the KDE Mint DVD to reinstall - that is fine and boots up - initially straight into Linux but whilst writing this I went into the BIOS to check one or two things and without knowingly having changed anything I'm now fully working as before with Dual Boot and the other options (Memory test, Recovery etc).

So, there was and is no USB involved. I don't know why it is now working, I don't know why it wasn't working and I guess I don't know which way to go next.

[jglen490]

So are you back on Mint, or were you successful with Kubuntu, or neither?

[Don B. Cilly]

Well, the way to go next seems to be to try and install Kubuntu in "legacy" mode.
Apparently, if you can tell your BIOS to boot from the DVD in legacy mode, the installer will not require an EFI partition.

I say apparently, because:
With my BIOS, if I try to boot from USB in UEFI mode, it does not boot.
If I boot in non-UEFI mode - which I assume is legacy, the options are: "UEFI: USB" and "USB", it boots just fine, but the installer still demands an EFI partition.

Now, there may be a way to install it without the ESP. But
- I couldn't find it and
- All I can google says, boot in legacy mode and there you go.

Now, in the Boot section of your BIOS, what options do you have for booting from DVD?

[AnthonyL]

So are you back on Mint, or were you successful with Kubuntu, or neither?

I'm back on Mint as I was before I made the first post, just the worst for wear and uncertain as to which direction to now take.

[AnthonyL]

Well, the way to go next seems to be to try and install Kubuntu in "legacy" mode.
Apparently, if you can tell your BIOS to boot from the DVD in legacy mode, the installer will not require an EFI partition.

I say apparently, because:
With my BIOS, if I try to boot from USB in UEFI mode, it does not boot.
If I boot in non-UEFI mode - which I assume is legacy, the options are: "UEFI: USB" and "USB", it boots just fine, but the installer still demands an EFI partition.

Now, there may be a way to install it without the ESP. But
- I couldn't find it and
- All I can google says, boot in legacy mode and there you go.

Now, in the Boot section of your BIOS, what options do you have for booting from DVD?

I'll have a look in a few days as I'm now behind on a number of other things. I can only say that:
1) The DVD boots fine
2) I can boot from a USB stick if need be
3) The Mint KDE installed originally, and re-installed fine from DVD
4) Kubuntu didn't seem to understand my boot system, Mint KDE does

I don't believe I''ve ever changed anything in the BIOS since I've had this machine (2+ years but it was second-hand then).

[Don B. Cilly]

Yes, but your Mint is old.
And as I've said, up to 16.04 (included), I never saw any mention of any EFI.
It started with 18.04.

Maybe try and find out what mode your BIOS is using to boot from DVD, and if it's legacy, there's probably a way to tell the installer you don't want EFI.

[AnthonyL]

Yes, but your Mint is old.

So am I.

And as I've said, up to 16.04 (included), I never saw any mention of any EFI.
It started with 18.04.

Maybe try and find out what mode your BIOS is using to boot from DVD, and if it's legacy, there's probably a way to tell the installer you don't want EFI.

Yes I intend to learn a lot more about my BIOS, MBR, UEFI, GRUB etc. Just been on the HP support site and there are numerous updates to BIOS and other drivers avaiable. I hate updating BIOS's. Still have nightmares about flashing them in days of old.

Easy to read article at https://neosmart.net/wiki/mbr-boot-process/

[Don B. Cilly]

Thing is, you probably don't need to update it.
If you can confirm you're actually booting (the DVD) in non-UEFI mode, chances are that someone here (not me will tell you how to install Kubuntu without an EFI partition.

[AnthonyL]

Thing is, you probably don't need to update it.
If you can confirm you're actually booting (the DVD) in non-UEFI mode, chances are that someone here (not me will tell you how to install Kubuntu without an EFI partition.

I've not been back into the BIOS to check but is the suspicion that the DVD is booting in UEFI mode (which the BIOS I believe supports) and the Hard drive in MBR mode?

Is the mode determined by the BIOS or could it be written into the ISO? I'm still struggling to understand why Kubuntu was insistent on (U)EFI mode or whether I had simply not told it the right partition to be the boot partition.

I'm just slowly preparing a checklist - but Win 7 has been working fine today.

[claydoh]

Without having (or asking for ) more info, we kinda assume usb thumb drives as the overwhelming majority use those over DVD when installing Linux. Optical disks are prone to bad burns, errors, and other anomalies, especially with age.
Assuming , of course has that saying ......

I do suggest trying a USB stick for the install.
I do not know why a DVD would be used as EFI over MBR, as the images are capable of being used in either, the system sees whichever one it wants and uses that. Perhaps a fluke of the media or the burner, or burning software?
The last time I tried using an actual optical disk to install an OS was actually not that long ago, within the past year. They were HP recovery CDs for Windows 7 I found for my old-ish clunker 'gaming' PC, mind you, and I had a devil of a time figuring out how to get it to load as UEFI, as I already had a drive with Kubuntu on the machine using that. I cannot recall what I did, however. Looking to see if I can find any info on this

To check from a live session, or from Mint, these can be used to see

sudo blkid /dev/sda

or

sudo parted /dev/sda print | grep -i '^Partition Table'

[Don B. Cilly]

Well, as I've said:

Apparently, if you can tell your BIOS to boot from the DVD in legacy mode, the installer will not require an EFI partition.

I said apparently, because it doesn't work for me. But it might for you. Why not try, I wonder.
Your older Mint ignores the boot mode because it won't use UEFI anyway.
Your newer Kubuntu likes UEFI better and will want to to use that - unless you find a way to tell it not to - which may start with booting the installation medium in legacy mode.

You could make an ESP partition and boot Kubuntu in UEFI mode, but then you would have to find a way to tell Windows to do that too.
So, you really don't want to look at you BIOS boot options.
Oh well. I guess if you miss the start, you can't run the race... :·)

[AnthonyL]

A continuation of the saga is leading me to believe that the Kubuntu install is totally ignoring the existing boot status.

Although my BIOS has UEFI capability both the Windows 7 install and the KDE Mint install were using MBR.

Just now I have again run the Kubuntu install, this time letting it automatically resize partitions so it adds to the existing Mint. I've now again lost my Windows 7 boot ability, I just have KDE Mint and Kubuntu.

Currently in Mint and I have:

$ ls /sys/firmware
acpi dmi efi memmap
$ sudo blkid /dev/sda
/dev/sda: PTUUID="41205603" PTTYPE="dos"
sudo parted /dev/sda print | grep -i '^Partition Table'
Partition Table: msdos

Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sda1 2048 24578047 24576000 11.7G 17 Hidden HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda2 24578048 625139711 600561664 286.4G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda3 625139712 927893062 302753351 144.4G 83 Linux
/dev/sda4 927893502 1953523711 1025630210 489.1G 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 1252040704 1953523711 701483008 334.5G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda6 1211078656 1252040703 40962048 19.5G 82 Linux swap / Solar
/dev/sda7 * 927893504 928944127 1050624 513M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/sda8 928946176 1211076607 282130432 134.5G 83 Linux

So the boot partition has moved to the new sda7 and is EFI. The boot that was on sda2 has gone.

The Kubuntu install had not detected or ignored the pre-existing boot regime.

Edit: Just gone into the BIOS, disable UEFI, rebooted and back as I was ie Windows and KDE Mint but (obviously) no Kubuntu. I suspect if I re-installed Kubuntu now it would behave better adding fuel to the fact that the Kubuntu install is not honouring the existing setup.

[Don B. Cilly]

Well, we did tell you that if you installed Kubuntu in UEFI mode then your old Windows wouldn't boot, didn't we?
The idea was to install Kubuntu in legacy mode instead.

You could make an ESP partition and boot Kubuntu in UEFI mode, but then you would have to find a way to tell Windows to do that too.

So, maybe find a way to boot Windows 7 with EFI.
Microsoft say there is a way to do it.
And plenty more to be found out there.