Dolphin

[sp2004c]

I don't understand why people don't use the command line to perform file actions as root...

sudo rm <filename>

Done.

then why do you even use a GUI for anything ... just type the right line and ... done !

[sp2004c]

the "no root" changes in kate/dolphin were not done to "restrict users"

that's like saying : "the Iraq invasion was not done to kill civilians but to ..."

you think that makes any civilian in Iraq happy to hear ?

[oshunluvr]

Actually, I am rather surprised at the amount of push-back over this. I honestly haven't launched Dolphin as root in 5 or 6 years. I simply have found no reason to do so. Even when I did in the past, it was extremely rare. This conversation reminds me of a round of hate that went around ten years ago or so over Ubuntu not having a root password by default. Everyone was up in arms even though they could simply create one themselves. I don't do that anymore either.

My unvarnished opinion on this topic: Launching Dolphin as root is a shortcut used by the inexperienced or lazy to circumvent the intended purpose of having a root user hierarchy to begin with.

One of the primary things that makes us "safer" using Linux rather than Windows is file permissions and ownership. Anything that puts a user (admin or not) in a place the removes these protections increases the likelihood of unintended consequences that could break your system or worse. The better course of action is to learn to use your system properly and stop expecting developers (do I have to point out here that they are unpaid and therefore free to do as they wish?) to see everything as you do.

Here's a reality check: I would venture a guess that a quarter or a third of the forum threads relating to Linux beginners having system issues are caused by them using root access unwisely. This is total supposition of course, but how many threads have you read or responded to begin with instructions on checking the user's home folder to verify none of the files in it are owned by root? What do you suppose is the likely leading cause of this? When the need arises to have root access, by removing this too-simple and unrestricted path to it, may cause some users to pause and take the time to learn what to do properly. And don't get me wrong, I'm not holier-than-thou, I have broken so many installs doing dumb things as root I can no longer remember the number.

What I also find interesting is the way people assume this is a heavy-handed tactic to "control" users and somehow there needs to be a rebellion to protect us from "the man." This isn't politics and you don't have to live here (by that I mean use KDE/Plasma). If you want a choice, well, guess what? This is Linux, you always have choices - see my first post on this thread and make one.

As I prepare to step off my soapbox, my choice is to look at this from the other direction: A developer or developers have made a decision to protect those users who have demonstrated they are unsuccessful using Dolphin with it unleashed. Prior to this change, yes, you could conveniently manage root-level parts of your file system without having to use the terminal. You could also randomly or accidentally launch programs as root - an ominous thing more often than not. You could also accidentally change file ownership leaving part or all of your system unusable. Now you must learn to use root super-powers wisely and correctly. Is that really such a bad or difficult thing?

I ask that you all remember that Linux is for everyone but created by few. They, and I, want a better experience for us and themselves than Windows can offer. Safety - from the outside world and ourselves - is a huge part of what makes Linux better - maybe the most important part. I believe this decision was made out of a desire to make us safer. As a final reminder: they do this for free. They freely give the one thing they can never recover - their time. Personally, I feel I owe gratitude and respect for what I have been provided for free. I am here on this forum many hours so that I may give back to this, the Linux community, a tiny percentage of what I receive. I donate to projects that I can with both time and money. I respect the developer's right to choose how the programs they give us will operate.

[TWPonKubuntu]

Disclaimer, I no longer am able to use KDE, but I do still use Dolphin...

The changes in progress are, you must admit, causing some stumbling and cursing as we are faced with changing our work flow habits. Nobody likes change.

I see the biggest problem (not a game changer) as the removal of root access from Dolphin BEFORE the addition of the option to enter a root privilege password on actions which need it. I get that this is not permanent, but it puts a window of pain and anxiety during the transition period. This too will (hopefully) pass.

All that being said, does anyone have an approximate time frame for when we will see the root password request functionality in Dolphin?

[kubicle]

I see the biggest problem (not a game changer) as the removal of root access from Dolphin BEFORE the addition of the option to enter a root privilege password on actions which need it. I get that this is not permanent, but it puts a window of pain and anxiety during the transition period. This too will (hopefully) pass.

Yes, you have summarized the main problem nicely.

All that being said, does anyone have an approximate time frame for when we will see the root password request functionality in Dolphin?

Unfortunately no. I haven't really been tracking it, because I use krusader for file management (which does everything I need).

Actually, I am rather surprised at the amount of push-back over this. I honestly haven't launched Dolphin as root in 5 or 6 years. I simply have found no reason to do so. Even when I did in the past, it was extremely rare. This conversation reminds me of a round of hate that went around ten years ago or so over Ubuntu not having a root password by default. Everyone was up in arms even though they could simply create one themselves. I don't do that anymore either.

My unvarnished opinion on this topic: Launching Dolphin as root is a shortcut used by the inexperienced or lazy to circumvent the intended purpose of having a root user hierarchy to begin with.

One of the primary things that makes us "safer" using Linux rather than Windows is file permissions and ownership. Anything that puts a user (admin or not) in a place the removes these protections increases the likelihood of unintended consequences that could break your system or worse. The better course of action is to learn to use your system properly and stop expecting developers (do I have to point out here that they are unpaid and therefore free to do as they wish?) to see everything as you do.

Here's a reality check: I would venture a guess that a quarter or a third of the forum threads relating to Linux beginners having system issues are caused by them using root access unwisely. This is total supposition of course, but how many threads have you read or responded to begin with instructions on checking the user's home folder to verify none of the files in it are owned by root? What do you suppose is the likely leading cause of this? When the need arises to have root access, by removing this too-simple and unrestricted path to it, may cause some users to pause and take the time to learn what to do properly. And don't get me wrong, I'm not holier-than-thou, I have broken so many installs doing dumb things as root I can no longer remember the number.

What I also find interesting is the way people assume this is a heavy-handed tactic to "control" users and somehow there needs to be a rebellion to protect us from "the man." This isn't politics and you don't have to live here (by that I mean use KDE/Plasma). If you want a choice, well, guess what? This is Linux, you always have choices - see my first post on this thread and make one.

As I prepare to step off my soapbox, my choice is to look at this from the other direction: A developer or developers have made a decision to protect those users who have demonstrated they are unsuccessful using Dolphin with it unleashed. Prior to this change, yes, you could conveniently manage root-level parts of your file system without having to use the terminal. You could also randomly or accidentally launch programs as root - an ominous thing more often than not. You could also accidentally change file ownership leaving part or all of your system unusable. Now you must learn to use root super-powers wisely and correctly. Is that really such a bad or difficult thing?

I ask that you all remember that Linux is for everyone but created by few. They, and I, want a better experience for us and themselves than Windows can offer. Safety - from the outside world and ourselves - is a huge part of what makes Linux better - maybe the most important part. I believe this decision was made out of a desire to make us safer. As a final reminder: they do this for free. They freely give the one thing they can never recover - their time. Personally, I feel I owe gratitude and respect for what I have been provided for free. I am here on this forum many hours so that I may give back to this, the Linux community, a tiny percentage of what I receive. I donate to projects that I can with both time and money. I respect the developer's right to choose how the programs they give us will operate.

A lot of good points there, but I'd just like to add that once the kio policykit integration gets in, it will actually be easier for "beginners" to do "root operations" graphically, so this will not really prevent them from shooting themselves in the foot (the change is done to protect users from an outside security threat, not from themselves...the change is not about dolphin [or kate/kwrite] either, the vulnerability is there in any GUI app launched as root [by any means], dolphin [and kate/kwrite] were picked first because these are the apps most commonly started as root).

that's like saying : "the Iraq invasion was not done to kill civilians but to ..."
you think that makes any civilian in Iraq happy to hear ?

I don't really give a flying duck what anyone is happy to hear (or things that are none of my concern), I'm just giving out the facts. I have no need to defend the changes either, I'm not a dolphin developer (and in fact, the change irrevocably broke some parts of my root actions menu for dolphin, which didn't exactly make some of my users terribly happy).

[Bings]

I see the biggest problem (not a game changer) as the removal of root access from Dolphin BEFORE the addition of the option to enter a root privilege password on actions which need it. I get that this is not permanent, but it puts a window of pain and anxiety during the transition period. This too will (hopefully) pass.

I agree with that and think it was a little unnecessary/politically unwise to remove something (which I presume has been there for many years?) before the replacement functionality had been put in place.

My unvarnished opinion on this topic: Launching Dolphin as root is a shortcut used by the inexperienced or lazy to circumvent the intended purpose of having a root user hierarchy to begin with.

.

Why start calling people inexperienced and lazy because they like to do file management with a gui? If it is so unsafe, why was it allowed in the first place and how is that user's fault?

[Snowhog]

To all:

Stating ones dislikes; sometimes repeatedly; about the decision(s) and direction(s) the developers made (and are going in) concerning root access (currently in Dolphin and Kate) isn't helping anyone. Userbase approval wasn't required, and disapproval isn't going to change it.

I (as well as others here; heck, even the involved developers!) do understand that this move was not going to be received 'with open arms.' But they (developers) had their reason(s) for doing so (and IIRC, those reasons were explained at least partially here in KFN), and what is done is done. Change isn't always easy, but when change is required, it happens.

If we can focus (here) on helping with the means and methods to overcome the issues this change created, then we are accomplishing our primary purpose: To help others with Kubuntu Linux.

Thank you.

[TWPonKubuntu]

My view on this is that while I "could" contribute to the development process, my skills are not up to that level. So while I may curse and moan about it, I really am just venting frustrations. I'll work around this in my workflow until the better functionality reaches my system. Then I'll wait for something else to complain about... 'Tis the nature of the beast.

This is not a new thing, where changes break workflow. Need I point back at Microsoft(r)'s history? We still have a better system AND the price is right. Plus, we have forums like this where explanations (the Why behind the problem) are available. I thank all who contribute to these forums.

[edit] @snowhog, you beat me to it! But I think we all need to do the occasional rant... It clears the mind for other work.

[Guest]

I for one am hugely annoyed. I'm just going to be switching to other less preferred gui fm and editor and run them as root, so what did this accomplish? Would rather be using Dolphin and Kate as I have for years. I understand making this a default, but should be configurable. Hate it, feels like I'm back on Microsoft garbage. That said, what is the best work around? Am I just better off going to Gnome for making system changes with gui tools? Will I find these same bully tactics there? Are there any root friendly packages available? A custom build that removes this restrictive authoritarian B.S.?

Why are they pushing us back to cli? Are they offering any gui root editing option? This has hampered my workflow since the [upgrade]sic.

[TWPonKubuntu]

dolphinasroot;

I don't see a viable "workaround", but rather a wait until the intended and promised root authorization request is implemented.

No, I'm not happy with needing to wait, since that directly impacts my workflow / income. I do think that some wrists need to be slapped and/or rear ends spanked for this bad implementation process.

Will I change? I already did when Kubuntu 14.04 failed to install on my 32 bit system.
Will I come back to Kubuntu? That depends on whether 32bit continues to be supported in 18.04. It looks unlikely, but I do have hope.

For the record, I'm now running Linux Mint XFCE (16.04) which retains the previous root access for Dolphin/Kate. I did this because I needed to keep working.

NOTE: this is not so much a rant against Kubuntu as it is a suggestion that change can be handled.

[vinnywright]

FYI: for the last 2 posters ,,,,"Kate" in 17.10 will edit root owned files , it will ask for your password when you go to save the file !!

as for a root file manager ,,,wile we wait for the deves to work out the changes to allow dolphin to do root work "like kate dose" you can still use Krusader for this ,,,,,,,and all this info is in this thread by the way.

VINNY

[TWPonKubuntu]

Thanks Vinny,
Krusader may be an option for dolphinasroot to maintain his workflow.

[geezer]

rooting Dolphin

I must admit that I was perturbed the first time I used (K)Ubuntu and couldn't simply always login as root. But after a few hours using the system, I no longer missed doing that.

Now when I have to do something risky as root (or more likely feel I have to) I simply do one of two things both of which have the exactly same result;

I. I open a terminal session in Kubuntu and type in "sudo dolphin", do what I thought could only be done by root and exit Dolphin. No more risky behavior, or
2. I press Alt-F2 for a command line. Type "kdesudo Dolphin" and do exactly as I would in 1. above. NOTE: typing "sudo Dolphin" here will get you nothing, a few minutes thought and you will understand why.

I can setup Dolphin as root to be exactly as it is under my normal login, so it is totally familiar.

Or I can do something really risky and use either method above invoking "jedit" (or Kate). Invoking the editor as root is far more dangerous in my limited experience than invoking Dolphin as root.

I no longer have to rail about the loss of using a root account to login with. I can "root" around in the mud ( metaphorically speaking ) as much as I want.

And yes I tried "rootaccess Dolphin". I think it was 2014 or 2015. Forgot that also so please don't take those dates as gospel. The end result: I scrapped it within a few days. Using the mechanism involved was just too intrusive and required, for me anyway, more interruption than what I do now. I suppose for someone who has used the "rootaccess Dolphin" method and become accustomed to it, it is a pain to do as I do

[Snowhog]

Launching and using any GUI with root (sudo) is a bad business practice. It can/has/will (eventually) create problems for your non-root user (you).

If you must use a GUI 'as root', then run/launch it using kdesudo instead.

[TWPonKubuntu]

geezer, I note that you're talking about "login as root", which is not a wise idea. What I referenced is starting Dolphin as root, while logged into the system under my own user account. [Snowhog beat me to it here].

If you have followed this thread, there was an explanation of the changes which were made in Kubuntu to remove the ability to start Dolphin (and other apps) with root privileges. Yes, Vinny, I did understand that...

The problem is that this change interrupted a long time workflow which involved started Dolphin with root privileges for file management.

There is, supposedly, a further change coming in Dolphin which will allow us to perform an operation on a file owned by root without needing to be running as root. That change isn't here yet. It is a little cumbersome right now and I, personally, changed distros to avoid that problem, among other reasons.

Hopefully this will become just another bump in the road and we can get back to working at normal speed.