Some nvidia cards conflict with the nouveau driver - WORKAROUND

[bobbicat]

For those who, like me, have an nvidia graphics card and a live disk or an install that sticks or freezes, try out this workaround.
This well reported bug has been in the nouveau driver for a few years and causes the above mentioned freezes, which can only be escaped by a hard shutdown or restart.

Workaround
At the disc bootup screen, press 'e' to edit and find the text 'quiet splash', insert the word 'nomodeset' in front of it, then press f10 to boot the disk [or thumb drive].
When install is complete, after restart, at the boot screen again, press 'e' to edit and enter 'nomodeset'.
When your system has started immediately enable the recommended nvidia drivers.
You won't see the freeze problem again until next install [unless, finally, at last, the bug has been addressed.]

It does concern me that a novice user with an nvidia card and a desire to try out *ubuntu might find he or she is unable to run the software because of this long running bug.

[oshunluvr]

Did you try blacklisting nouveau without nomodeset?

Add this to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf:

blacklist nouveau
blacklist lbm-nouveau
options nouveau modeset=0
alias nouveau off
alias lbm-nouveau off

[GreyGeek]

For those who, like me, have an nvidia graphics card and a live disk or an install that sticks or freezes, try out this workaround.
This well reported bug has been in the nouveau driver for a few years and causes the above mentioned freezes, which can only be escaped by a hard shutdown or restart.

Workaround
At the disc bootup screen, press 'e' to edit and find the text 'quiet splash', insert the word 'nomodeset' in front of it, then press f10 to boot the disk [or thumb drive].
When install is complete, after restart, at the boot screen again, press 'e' to edit and enter 'nomodeset'.
When your system has started immediately enable the recommended nvidia drivers.
You won't see the freeze problem again until next install [unless, finally, at last, the bug has been addressed.]

Is the NVidia card your primary or only GPU?

It does concern me that a novice user with an nvidia card and a desire to try out *ubuntu might find he or she is unable to run the software because of this long running bug.

It concerns everyone who has the best interests of Linux at heart. The problem isn't with the Linux developers. It is with NVidia and their lack of cooperation, probably encouraged/forced on them by Microsoft. Linus Torvolds addressed the issue. Following Torvolds' middle finger NVidia promised to have better cooperation, but that was probably just publicity talk because TWO years after that, NVidia is still not cooperating.


The latest problem is

The latest NVIDIA GTX 900 series graphics cards now require signed firmware images, so Nouveau’s developers can’t work with them, as first reported by Phoronix. Noveau developer Ben Skeggs explained:

“Nvidia aren't playing nice yet so there's not much more that can be done at this point... I spent a lot of time trying to find a viable way of doing gr ctxsw without signed firmware, but the "security" restrictions… are excessive and go beyond what'd be necessary to protect the host from malicious firmware. This newer Nvidia hw is VERY open-source unfriendly.”

Microsoft claims it introduced "Secure Boot" and signed images at the firmware level to improve the security of Windows, but Windows is as vulnerable as ever (signed images doesn't prevent social engineering) and the real purpose, IMO, was to make dual booting with or overwriting Windows installations very difficult for the average Joe and Sally Sixpack.

My laptop, an Acer V3-771G made in 2012, has a primary Intel HD graphics GPU and a secondary NVidia GT650M GPU, which CANNOT be set as the primary in the BIOS. For a long time I had to use BumbleBee and Optiprime to run specific apps (optiprime <some switches> app) from a Konsole to run Minecraft with NVidia. The GT650M is a FIVE year old card and it has been only since I installed NEON User Edition last fall, along with the nvidia-378.13 driver and associated files, that the GT650M has behaved like it is the primary driver, running all the time and giving the desktop and every application several hundred fps.

That seems like a good step for older hardware, but it is a day late and a dollar short.

Nvidia seemed to be improving after Valve announced its Steam Machine endeavor. Linus even gave Nvidia a thumbs up! But the latest Nvidia graphics hardware, the GeForce GTX 900 series, “is VERY open-source unfriendly,” according to a Nouveau developer.

Microsoft is the single biggest impediment to Linux progress, and I believe deliberately so. It began with James Plamaondon, who created Microsoft's "Technical Evangelists". Their sole purpose was to invade comment sections on stories about Linux and plant anti-Linux posts. In response to the Combs vs Microsoft trial Plamondon himself gave a Mea Culpa, but that was after he took the money and ran to Australia. Prior to the DOJ vs Microsoft trial, which they lost both the trial and the appeal, but stole the judgement using political shicannery to get the judge replaced. She promptly let MS "negotiate" their punishment. It turned out to be three "monitors", residing on their campus in Redmond, two of whom were picked by Microsoft. Oh, they also got a free pass on ALL crimes committed prior to the trial. Before the trial, PC vendors were forced to sign secret deals with Microsoft which forced them to install or bundle Windows on EVERY PC they sold, even to folks who wanted only the hardware so they could install Linux, If a PC OEM tried to sell only the hardware MS would raise their unit costs on Windows to make them noncompetitive with other PC OEMs. Dell tried that twice but was forced back into line. Walmart put a laptop on their shelves featuring Linux and they sold like wildfire. MS sent a letter to Walmart's exec explaining how their supply of Windows computers would dry up (by raising unit prices on PC OEMs who supplied Walmart) and Walmart killed the offering. This is documented in the Combs vs Microsoft trial.

The OLPC initiative, designed to put a $100 laptop with wifi networking into the hands of kids in 3rd world countries, was introduced using Linux as kernel and running software on top of it. Microsoft killed that initiative, partly by subverting the man whose idea it was.

I could go on and on because the trail of Microsoft's skulduggery is long and vile, but I hope you get the point. But, despite Microsoft's evil acts Linux has done surprisingly well. Contrary to Microsoft's paid PR the display market share for Linux was 4% in 2004, 8% in 2008 (according to Gartner) and then came VISTA and Win8. In some countries the LInux marketshare is well over 50%. If you add the small form facter into the mix (cellphones) Linux powers 82% of every device that people look at to run applications. That's how dominate Android is. It is powered by Linux.

[wizard10000]

All nomodeset does is prevent the kernel from loading a hardware-specific video driver and X or Wayland will load it instead. nomodeset will force the kernel to use VESA drivers until X starts and loads a hardware-specific driver.

BTW, I got a new nouveau driver in Sid yesterday.

[bobbicat]

oshunluvr:
Did you try blacklisting nouveau without nomodeset?

I want to use the recommended nvidia driver as soon as able in the installation process, so blacklisting would be redundant to my scheme, but thanks for taking the time to make that valid suggestion.

GreyGeek asked:
Is the NVidia card your primary or only GPU?

The card is my only gpu - a gtx660

My problem is and was with the default nouveau drivers provided with the install media.
If I disable nouveau I get a trouble free install.
Once the nvidia recommended drivers are installed things run fine.

I can deal with this, but a novice user wouldn't know what the problem was, or how to address it.
[the problem symptom is a screen freeze part way into installation, which prevents installation or the use of the 'live disk']

Maybe a note about using nomodeset in or with the install notes would smooth the path for our hypothetical 'novice user'

I appreciate that the relationship with nvidia is unhelpful and prolongs the difficulty, but helpful or not that problem remains and there is a workaround which is not immediately apparent to everyone.

wizard10000

indeed nomodeset does bump my system into using vesa drivers, this is adequate to complete the intallation or use the 'live disk'. As you say, once installed to hdd or sdd then a hardware specific driver can be installed. [I do realise and understand that purists don't want to use manufacturers' binary drivers and so they do have to live with the compatibility issue]

Around ten years ago I came to Kubuntu with Edgy as a non-geek escaping other operating systems and all that they involve.
My stay has been pleasant, productive and prolonged.
I feel no call or need to return to that previous way of running my computer.
I have learned much but am still a non-geek who is grateful for the effort of those dedicated to what it takes to create and maintain this operating system.

My thanks to those who showed a interest in this matter and took the time to post.

[I suppose another answer would be to bin my card and obtain an alternative that does not have associated problems. Though this does assume I have spare cash or access to a supply of free video cards... Please forgive my flippancy ]

On a more serious note - when the time does come to get a new card it would seem that a little fact finding would be a good idea before parting with cash

[GreyGeek]

The solutions and/or work-arounds to videos problems are abundant on the Internet.

The problem in most cases is that the "novice" user (who usually migrated from Windows) doesn't know a) the jargon used to express problems, b) therefore doesn't know how to search the web for solutions, and if by chance they find some, c) how to apply them. The novice aggravates his or her own situation by assuming that they are dealing with paid employees, despite the fact that they did not pay for the distro they want to install, nor do they pay for any of the applications available for it. Despite not paying for anything they sometimes demand help and when they don't get what they consider to be useful advice (even if it is but they don't understand it), they get hostile and began ranting.

Most novice users do NOT understand that at Linux sites like this one (Kubuntuforums.net) other users volunteer their time and skills in helping people. They, we, I are not paid to do this. Linux and all of its utilities and applications and distros have been built by volunteers, for the most part. The kernel, Ubuntu and Red Hat have, I suspect, the largest number of paid employees. Kubuntu and/or Neon might have a paid developer or two, but I don't keep up with that.

There was a time when installing Linux was a job for someone skilled in computer and/or science. Joe and Sally Sixpack could never accomplish such a task. Microsoft's solution was to bribe the PC OEMs, initially, into having Windows pre-installed, leaving only the name and password to be entered and then completing the rest of the installation. They were able to accomplish that because they bribed the peripheral makers (Hayes Modems, Printers, scanners, mice, etc...) to remove the CPUs from the cards and depend on the Windows kernel and PC CPU. The hardware costs savings became profits, because they never lowered the prices. Thus, the "WinPrinter" or "WinModem", etc... was born. Once peripheral makers began printing "Requires Windows" on their boxes the PC OEM's jumped on the Windows bandwagon and Microsoft's monopoly was born. Before Microsoft peripheral makers like Hayes Modem freely published their codes and data that programs must use to control their hardware. Microsoft then required OEM's to keep their driver & configuration data proprietary to prevent Linux developers from writing compatible drivers. It forced Linux developers to use "Green Rooms" to avoid law suites for theft. This led to the NVIDIA problem you complain about. With NDA's NVIDIA can't say if Microsoft forces them to not release their current info, they just don't do it. This gives Microsoft an unfair advantage and is actually a violation of the Clayton-Sherman Anti-Trust Act, but no one watches for that in corporate America anymore.

Then came the LiveCD and the entire ball game changed. Joe and Sally Sixpack COULD install Linux because all they had to do, for the most part, was to answer a few question, usually accepting the defaults, and enter their name and password. Installing Linux was as easy, or easier than, installing Windows. But, that doesn't mean that Linux has access to the latest hardware specs. Linux developers still have to use the Green Room, which always puts our drivers a year or two, or more, behind Windows' drivers. And gives rise to your complaint.

[bobbicat]

I'm not complaining about the state of affairs.
Perhaps you thought my initial post was a complaint against unpaid volunteers?
Or an expression of dissatisfaction with Linux, Debian, Ubuntu, Kubuntu or something associated therewith?
Equally I am not concerned about the attitude of novice users who have encountered difficulties.
I do not delude myself that I am re-inventing the wheel.

As a Joe Sixpack who has discovered a problem and found a way to deal with it, I post here.
The solution is not elegant but it has facilitated the installation of Kubuntu on my hardware and may be of use to others.

I left the operating system you describe above many years ago.
It has no contact with my hardware.
I realise it wants me and my money but I'm just not interested in a return or it and its machinations.
I could add much of my experience with that operating system to your diatribe but it is irrelevant to my solved problem of how to deal with a system and hardware that will not install.

I am uninterested in trying to attach blame.
I am aware that unpaid workers can leave any time.
[in fact paid employees can and do leave too]

I do not assume that anyone owes me a response, advice,help or even, an operating system.
I realise that, at times, nerves are raw and at those times treading on toes becomes very easy.

Despite this sorry state of affairs, I'm pleased to say I am glad I chose Kubuntu for my operating system.

I hope others will be able to follow a similar, happy, independent path.

[Guest]

Hello folks! I'm brand spanking new to Ubuntu and Kubuntu. I have wrestled with this issue for the last few days and after solving my problem - with some help and luck - I thought I would post about my experience here. (Y'know, in case this helps someone.)

I'm running an i7 Intel system with two GPU's (GTX 960's SLI'd), with one monitor plugged into each card via HDMI. After installing Kubuntu, I decided I wanted to learn how to install Nvidia drivers. 375.39 is the version I ended up getting to work.

From my struggle I've found that Kubuntu's 'Driver Manager' WILL install the drivers automatically but all the system functions (including reboot) will start to fail afterwards. (Don't forget to check the box to use Intel's Microcode. Don't know if it helps but I understand that it might.) The only work-around to this I've found that doesn't BOD the machine is to wait a good 2 or 3 minutes and do a hard restart.

After several screw-ups on my part after this point, I decided to create a restore point of my entire system state using Back In Time. Recommend this, especially if you're not savvy to Ubuntu (like me). It was easy and only took up about 30 gigs.

Afterwards, I found that my system was working normally again but that my second display was completely black after logging in. This is an error with the Nvidia X Server application. Apparently there's some configurations related to absolute position of monitors (don't ask me which ones) which are not saved properly to the config file until you follow a few steps, which was the ultimate process that got my setup functioning normally:

1. Run 'Configure Nvidia X Server Settings' from 'Start' > 'Applications' > 'System' in Kubuntu
2. Click on 'X Server Display Configuration'
3. Click 'Advanced...'
4. Click on your disabled monitor in the Layout window and change 'Configuration' to 'X screen 0' to enable it (Or 'X screen 1' if that's all that appears, should automatically become 'X screen 0' later.)
5. Go back to the primary monitor in the Layout window and check the box 'Enable Base Mosaic (Surround)'
6. Fiddle with the 'Position' setting some for both monitors. Make sure you end up with each monitor set to 'Absolute' and +0+0 for the one on the left, 'Absolute' and +width of first monitor+0 (example: +1920+0) for the one on the right.
7. Click 'Apply' and then 'Apply Whats Possible' in the pop-up
8. Click 'Save to X Configuration File' (Which should be saved to /etc/X11) and save
9.Reboot from the start menu

Now both of my monitors display correctly and are adjacent to each other. Huzzah~! Hope this saves someone some trouble out there.
-Knight